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Faleel
Rohan
Nov 15 2014, 10:13pm
Post #26 of 34
(1468 views)
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Page 56 of the Annotated Hobbit.
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Dragonrnbw
Rivendell
Nov 15 2014, 10:59pm
Post #27 of 34
(1463 views)
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Totally missed that!  Don't know why but for some reason I find it funny...just the mental image of Smaug (in his size) sneaking around Dale.. Wouldn't he have a hard time of it due to his size? LOL!
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for thou are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Nov 16 2014, 2:55am
Post #28 of 34
(1446 views)
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Hey, it's all good (i too have a lot of 2nd posts and addendums, thanks to the edit time window)
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Can't Post
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I like discussing Thranduil 
When Thranduil mentions the white gems, this creepy violin melody starts plays in the background then fades when he says "I offer you my help". When he talks about them, I also notice a glimmer in his eye similar to the glimmer of the gems.
Shows his unhealthy obsession with them? Certainly does. It's just that around the DoS pressrounds, and in the interviews I read/seen, the impression I got was that Thranduil felt strongly about those gems because they are related to important cultural heritage. Seemed like the general consensus was they were likely equivalent to the Silmarils and the Nauglamir. Which would fit in with Thranduil's resonant eye glimmer. Now with this wifey-gems plotbit, I'm confuzzled.
Also, Thranduil has some interesting subtle facial expressions during the scene. For sure! Lee Pace gives fantastic emoting in this scene. From the amused, regal arrogance, and sharp observations at the beginning, right through the way he invites Thorin to rot in the dungeons at the end.  *cough* They've been discussed in past Thranduil Appreciation threads a number of times too.
"I'll say dark and gritty, which, with the Elvenking, translates as Hot and Sexy.  " - vanima ephel
I fancy myself an ME BFF (Book/Film Fan)
(Aaaaand a gushy Thranduil fangurl before The Hobbit movies; still a gushy Thranduil fangurl through them.  )
Thranduil Appreciation
Threadcount: XXIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII | XIV | XV | XVI | XVII | XVIII | XIX | XX | XXI | XXII | XXIII
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
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 Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Nov 16 2014, 3:04am
Post #29 of 34
(1448 views)
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Oh, there's a lot of room for interpretation for sure
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I try not to second-guess stuff when I go into a movie. But this is an ME movie after all. And like you, I've read the books, so I have questions with what's happened and what's seems to be stuff that's going to happen (or not as the case may be). Honestly, I can't wrap my head around how things are suppose to work out. The thing that does get to me is the production's penchant to want to reference the Silm for the Thranduil and Thorin arc, and magnifying it to the racial level. But at the same time, they're also trying darn hard to make sure the audience know that LotR and TH are linked. Great so far, but then they've also shown they're really eager to freestyle plotlines into the story. Looks like a grand pot of great unification theory stew simmering away. The only thing that seems to be missing at this point, is the kitchen sink.
I am really curious how it's all going to come together and still be cogent to the story the production seemed to have crafted, segue to LotR, and have all the freestyling they've done make sense. We'll see in December. I'll have my popcorn ready, and even if I feel like throwing the bucket at the screen, i won't. Wasting food is a sin 
"I'll say dark and gritty, which, with the Elvenking, translates as Hot and Sexy. " - vanima ephel
I fancy myself an ME BFF (Book/Film Fan)
(Aaaaand a gushy Thranduil fangurl before The Hobbit movies; still a gushy Thranduil fangurl through them. )
Thranduil Appreciation
Threadcount: XXIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII | XIV | XV | XVI | XVII | XVIII | XIX | XX | XXI | XXII | XXIII
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Nov 16 2014, 3:05am)
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Cirashala
Valinor
Nov 16 2014, 4:22am
Post #30 of 34
(1444 views)
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the maidens thing comes up when Thorin is telling Bilbo about Smaug's activity in his long tale in Bag End
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Elthir
Grey Havens
Nov 17 2014, 12:12pm
Post #31 of 34
(1419 views)
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PJ and Company seem to be ignorant of some terms. High Elf. They have said Thranduil is a High Elf and 3000 years old.
NOPE!! NO WAY! A high elf according to JRR Tolkien is: High Elves are Exiles – returned back over Sea to Middle Earth. High Elves reached the Western shores and passed over the sea and they became immensely enhanced in powers and knowledge. (Letter #144 )
For this question, however, there is another letter (ten letters later) in which High Elves appear to refer to the Eldar (at least arguably so), which would thus include the Sindar.
"But the promise made to the Eldar (the High Elves -- not to other varieties, they had long before made their irrevocable choice, preferring Middle-earth to paradise) for their sufferings in the struggle with the prime Dark Lord had still to be fulfilled: that they should always be able to leave Middle-earth, if they wished, and pass over Sea to the True West, by the Straight Road, and so come to Eressea - but so pass out of time and history, never to return." JRRT letter 154
And Appendix B (introduction to the Second Age) at least arguably appears to include the Sindar as well, thus Thranduil. Another 'problem' is that Frodo seems to think Gildor and Company are High Elves due to their use of the Sindarin name Elbererth -- this I think, arose out of a revision (Elbereth had been a 'Noldorin' name)... but still.
The conclusion I have come to so far, in order to reconcile things, is that the usual use of High Elves in Middle-earth refers to the Noldor, but that there's another sense in which it can be employed, in Middle-earth, to distinguish the West-elves from the East-elves (Appendix F).
For clarity I think there are far more examples of High Elves in the sense you argue here. There is even a description with reference to the word Tareldar which states things rather plainly, as your quote above does...
... but that said I'm not sure Tolkien was wholly consistent here, or perhaps he did sometimes wish (or imagine) a term like High Elves marking a secondary distinction in Middle-earth...
... and in that sense it was essentially equated with Eldar.
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Elthir
Grey Havens
Nov 17 2014, 1:27pm
Post #33 of 34
(1472 views)
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I'm not so sure this is even necessarily so -- notably more than other Elves in the Third Age that is -- even based on material from Unfinished Tales. This seems to be the angle Jackson wants to take, yes, but...
... I mean, is Thranduil any more isolationist than other Elven rulers who live in hidden relams in the Third Age, or who naturally (I would suggest) retreated from a growing shadow and built a fortress for safety?
What were even Oropher's motives for retreating northward, noting that he decided to join the fight of the Last Alliance despite the desires of the Silvan Elves in general. Thranduil is not Oropher, and I argue that there are really two 'Oropher histories' in Unfinished Tales for consideration, noting that we are in 'unfinished' waters here in any case...
http://newboards.theonering.net/...;;page=unread#unread
(This post was edited by Elthir on Nov 17 2014, 1:37pm)
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor
Nov 20 2014, 5:58am
Post #34 of 34
(1389 views)
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imo, I thought it strange that Thranduil keeps getting described as isolationist when it isn't just Mirkwood that's gotten secretive. Evne Imladris, arguably the most welcoming of Elven abodes, was not the sort of place any Tom. Dick or Harry, or should that be Tom, Bert, or William, could just saunter into.
"I'll say dark and gritty, which, with the Elvenking, translates as Hot and Sexy. " - vanima ephel
I fancy myself an ME BFF (Book/Film Fan)
(Aaaaand a gushy Thranduil fangurl before The Hobbit movies; still a gushy Thranduil fangurl through them. )
Thranduil Appreciation
Threadcount: XXV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII | XIV | XV | XVI | XVII | XVIII | XIX | XX | XXI | XXII | XXIII | XXIII
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
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Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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