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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Thranduil Appreciation Thread Part II
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Rowan Greene
Lorien


Feb 8 2014, 1:44am

Post #1 of 215 (34523 views)
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     The Thranduil Appreciation Thread Part II  

We appreciated Thranduil so much our thread was locked for surpassing the 400 post limit.

So, without further ado....back to appreciating the Elvenking.

The hair pic I last posted:

Former thread: http://newboards.theonering.net/...?post=713005;#713005



Bard'sBlackArrow
Lorien


Feb 8 2014, 1:53am

Post #2 of 215 (9454 views)
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     ... [In reply to]  

Here to Lee
and his paranoid Elf King
Who can strike a pose
and an Orc's head clean off
at the same time
Now if he'd only do that to ...

< ahem, I'll end my shattered haiku there... >

Lee's performance is superb. He's the first elf I've liked and wanted to see more of.

So I hope we will see more of him in the DoS EE and TABA.

... on the other side of tomorrow...


vanima ephel
Rivendell


Feb 8 2014, 2:29am

Post #3 of 215 (9514 views)
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     The Elvenking is not to be trifled with. [In reply to]  

AND he has great hair! And an amazing throne. Though I get dizzy when I think about the climb to reach it. (I'm glad they gave Lee a green-screened railing, especially if he's as accident prone in the Elvenking's (fabulous) costume as some of his interviews make him sound. Tongue )

Legolas/Gimli artwork courtesy of Brianna


Bernhardina
Rohan


Feb 8 2014, 2:29am

Post #4 of 215 (9492 views)
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     One thing I missed in DoS... [In reply to]  

... was a scene with him and Legolas where you could actually feel that they are father and son or even related. They just seemed so... angry/worried all the time. And like, when they spoke to each other after that orc was beheaded it was like they really did not like each other even. But maybe they aren't the best of friends for some unknown reason. When Thranduil says "No one enters this kingdom, and no one leaves it", he looks at Legolas as if he despises him. Maybe he was just really worried at the moment, but... well... I thought it was a bit odd.
Maybe there's a Thranduil-Legolas scene in the EE which explains their relationship. I really hope so, because I'm confused Crazy



(This post was edited by Bernhardina on Feb 8 2014, 2:30am)


Elarie
Grey Havens

Feb 8 2014, 2:55am

Post #5 of 215 (9480 views)
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     Thranduil and Legolas [In reply to]  

I also wondered about the father-son relationship between them and the way they related on-screen. There was definitely familiarity between them when they talked, but no special affection or closeness. I finally just decided in my own mind that after hundreds or thousands of years the father-son relationship would probably be that of two adults in most situations, and only in some particularly stressful or emotional circumstance would the family ties come to the surface. Or at least, that was my take on it.


Rowan Greene
Lorien


Feb 8 2014, 3:01am

Post #6 of 215 (9457 views)
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     Here's my take... [In reply to]  

His expression is serious because the situation, as he sees it, is grave. (Based on what the orc revealed.) Thranduil wants there to be no misunderstandings. So in short, I saw a King giving an order and his son understanding that it must be carried out. I think he loves his son and keeps things from him in order to protect him. As he's giving that order, I predict he's remembering the horrors he faced in the battle of the Last Alliance.

I do agree they need to further explore the father / son dynamic as we barely scratched the surface. Here's hoping the EE includes some additional scenes.

Here's a screencap of Thranduil giving the order:




Nesse
Lorien

Feb 8 2014, 6:45am

Post #7 of 215 (9370 views)
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     Was any character in LotR as popular as Thranduil? [In reply to]  

 


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Feb 8 2014, 8:14am

Post #8 of 215 (9359 views)
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     Yes, Legolas. [In reply to]  

There were swarms and swarms of Legolas fangirls right after FOTR came out. That's why they made such a point of him coming back and having a sizeable role in The Hobbit. If he hadn't been so popular, it probably would have been more of a cameo.

Silverlode

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Feb 8 2014, 8:40am

Post #9 of 215 (9371 views)
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     I remember being surprised [In reply to]  

by the creativity of the many new board members who had some version of Legolas as their nickname. :)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


phij2
Rivendell

Feb 8 2014, 11:34am

Post #10 of 215 (9346 views)
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     Maybe girl issues.. [In reply to]  

Thranduil obviously doesn't want Legolas and Tauriel to be together...so maybe he and leggy fell out over this

Or maybe having a never changing father for hundreds of years just causes a cold distant relationship!


ltnjmy
Rivendell


Feb 8 2014, 12:02pm

Post #11 of 215 (9311 views)
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     I think it was a great scene [In reply to]  

An insightful interpretation of the father son relationship.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Feb 8 2014, 12:48pm

Post #12 of 215 (9296 views)
Shortcut
     Except that [In reply to]  

I do not feel that Orlando Bloom is a good enough actor to give depth to any scene – and especially when he needs to act with actors who CAN act. When he tries to look threatening, or sad, or whatever, he just succeeds in looking rather silly. That was the case in the LotR films, too, except in those films he at least looked like a pretty boy.

He is just an embarrassing distraction in DoS. The less of him we see, the better, as far as I'm concerned…


In Reply To
I do agree they need to further explore the father / son dynamic as we barely scratched the surface. Here's hoping the EE includes some additional scenes.



(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Feb 8 2014, 12:50pm)


Rowan Greene
Lorien


Feb 8 2014, 1:36pm

Post #13 of 215 (9334 views)
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     Personally.... [In reply to]  

I would have preferred the Elvenking to be the "front and center" elf in TH movies, and not just because he's canon to the original source material (book). Sure, Legolas is his son and was likely there but if they're not going to explore the father / son dynamic, why is he such a prominent character? He basically served as a jealous 3rd in a suggested love triangle and an acrobatic orc-killing machine. What really should have been a cameo appearance was expanded due to his popularity in the LoTR movies, as others have pointed out.

Personally, I liked Thranduil's character evolution in the book and feel they could have fleshed that out instead of inserting Legolas and a non-canon elf with prominent story arcs. We don't see much of Thranduil on screen so I never felt like we got to know him very well, as in we don't have a clear picture as to what drives his actions. We certainly don't get as much insight into his character as we do a certain non-canon elf. Instead, we're left with a lot of supposition based on the verbal exchange with both Thorin and the orc but it's all window dressing.

People who haven't read The Hobbit or Tolkien's other works and are unfamiliar with Thranduil's background may view him as a shallow, self-serving character. You need a valid reason to care about a character--to understand their actions--something that goes beyond a (perceived) petty beef over a single chest of gems. (Like maybe the fact this king is thousands of years old and suffered great losses in battle, to include his own father, and therefore insulates himself and his people from the dangers of the outside world--none of which really comes across on screen. Yes, we get hints here and there via his dialogue but a flashback would have been more powerful. Show me his pain and suffering instead of telling me about it. Telling lessons the impact.)

I hope they show his benevolent side in TABA, as in (*SPOILERS*) his sending aid to the people of Lake-town after Smaug's attack, his encouraging Bilbo to stay with them for his safety after they learn he basically took and hid the Arkenstone from Thorin to save him from himself, his unwillingness to go to war over gold, his comment to Bilbo about how he's more fit to wear the elven armor than many a fair elven prince, and the gift presented by Bilbo after the battle. I mean, Bilbo chooses to fight with the elves and this noble Elvenking in the book but we saw nothing in DoS to support Bilbo's favorable opinion of him because we saw very little of Bilbo in Thranduil's halls. (I imagine they'll rectify that in TABA.) I hope they stay true to these scenes from the book and don't assign these actions to a different elf.

I hope that makes sense. I just feel Thranduil was overshadowed by the other two elves and their story arcs when he should have been the prominent elf character. Instead of Thranduil wasting time telling Tauriel how his son thought she fought well or how his son was fond of her and he wouldn't sanction the match--which basically reduced him to a supporting role in the exchange/story arc--why not have a flashback (after she mentions the spiders) to the Battle of the Last Alliance and the horrors he endured--something relevant to his character? As is, we had the Elvenking furthering the 'romance' story arc and that was disappointing. Unsure

And in closing, some Thranduil:



In Reply To
I do not feel that Orlando Bloom is a good enough actor to give depth to any scene – and especially when he needs to act with actors who CAN act. When he tries to look threatening, or sad, or whatever, he just succeeds in looking rather silly. That was the case in the LotR films, too, except in those films he at least looked like a pretty boy.

The less of him we see, the better, as far as I'm concerned…


In Reply To
I do agree they need to further explore the father / son dynamic as we barely scratched the surface. Here's hoping the EE includes some additional scenes.





(This post was edited by Rowan Greene on Feb 8 2014, 1:42pm)


Elanor of Rohan
Lorien


Feb 8 2014, 1:40pm

Post #14 of 215 (9340 views)
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     if you were blown away by Thranduil's voice [In reply to]  

when the first trailer of Dos was released (as I was, of courseSmile), we could start this new appreciation thread with... a new version of that trailerWinkWinkWink

and believe me, the modern version Lee Pace is as fascinating as the classic oneHeart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttQxKXg0uqk

not to mention Richard Armitage of course...


Rowan Greene
Lorien


Feb 8 2014, 1:47pm

Post #15 of 215 (9243 views)
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     NIce! [In reply to]  

If only I could edit out one character and voice. LOL I just re-watched Pushing Daisies--love Pace in that.


In Reply To
when the first trailer of Dos was released (as I was, of courseSmile), we could start this new appreciation thread with... a new version of that trailerWinkWinkWink

and believe me, the modern version Lee Pace is as fascinating as the classic oneHeart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttQxKXg0uqk

not to mention Richard Armitage of course...




Glorfindela
Valinor


Feb 8 2014, 1:55pm

Post #16 of 215 (9282 views)
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     That is so brilliantly put, Rowan [In reply to]  

It encapsulates much of what I would like to say, but don't have the time to. Thanks very much for writing down your assessment of this issue. Wink

The frustrating thing is that PJ is perfectly capable of providing the sort of thing you mention extremely well, but for whatever reason has instead gone the superficial and cringe-worthy comic-book route that is totally unsuitable for a Tolkien work…


(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Feb 8 2014, 1:59pm)


Thranduiliel
Bree

Feb 8 2014, 2:21pm

Post #17 of 215 (9276 views)
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     Absolutely agree [In reply to]  

And I say this as a huge Legolas fan from LOTR - but, aside from having a cameo role, I'm rather regretting his rather dominant inclusion in DOS at the expense of his father's role.

And as I've said previously, I'm concerned that other aspects of Thranduil's role from the Hobbit will be given to Legolas in TABA, as the studio believes that's what the audience wants. Already, Legolas has Orcrist and has been photographed in conversation with Bard.

We know from filming shots/ vlogs that at least Thranduil makes it into battle, but I'll be rather peeved if, as I suspect, it will be Legolas who persuades him into going, and if the focus is on Legolas's interaction with Bilbo and the Laketown people, rather than Thranduil's. What was the point in creating such a magnificent character if they're not going to showcase him?

It seems that PJ happened upon the Legolas super-stunts by accident. I remember loving his ascent onto the horse in TTT, and it was so subtle that it occurred almost in the background. I can remember on the commentary, PJ saying that during pickups, he realised they hadn't shown how Legolas had mounted the horse, so inserted the CGI of Legolas swinging up on the reins. Personally, I think it was the subtlety of that move that made it so successful. But that has now snowballed to Legolas surfing on Dwarves' heads. It's possible to have too much of a good thing.

I'm in the minority amongst my fellow RL Hobbit film viewers in liking Thranduil. I was intrigued enough by him to look into his background. My friends and family who have not done so, largely see him as you've described him, Rowan - shallow, moody and greedy, with no redeemng features. I really want the EE and TABA to address that, but fear it will not happen.

As an aside, and a reply to another point made on the thread, I suspect Thranduil's rather stern countenance towards Legolas when decreeing no one shall enter the kingdom, nor leave it, was directed at his son, as he knows all to well his elfling's dwarf-surfing tendencies!

Sly


Thranduiliel
Bree

Feb 8 2014, 2:29pm

Post #18 of 215 (9274 views)
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     I think Thranduil was rattled by the Orc's revelations [In reply to]  

which largely accounted for his cool demeanour towards Legolas in that scene.

Also, I would't be surprised if Thranduil suspected Tauriel may want to venture further afield, having just voiced the suggestion to him as a military tactic, and been summarily dismissed by him during the interrogation. I think Thranduil was implying Tauriel was a flight risk, and that it was up to Legolas to put the measures in place to prevent it, particularly in view of the information the orc had given him.


Elk2013
The Shire


Feb 8 2014, 2:32pm

Post #19 of 215 (9260 views)
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     Second thread! Well done! [In reply to]  

I read the whole last thread and loved it very muc, though I've been too shy to join in. Thranduil's Trall, I'm definitely in! Thranduil was already my favorite when I first read the Hobbit 10 years ago, and Lee did a wonderful job in playing the gorgeous, enigmatic and cunning Elven King.
Here is a stunning image collection of Thrandy from movies, trailers, EE and vlogs, made by my friend Lian. Hopy you enjoy it!Cool
Link:
http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/...t7v04j20k4gqbqv9.jpg


Thranduiliel
Bree

Feb 8 2014, 2:40pm

Post #20 of 215 (9249 views)
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     OMG, I've just died and gone to heaven! [In reply to]  


In Reply To
I read the whole last thread and loved it very muc, though I've been too shy to join in. Thranduil's Trall, I'm definitely in! Thranduil was already my favorite when I first read the Hobbit 10 years ago, and Lee did a wonderful job in playing the gorgeous, enigmatic and cunning Elven King.
Here is a stunning image collection of Thrandy from movies, trailers, EE and vlogs, made by my friend Lian. Hopy you enjoy it!Cool
Link:
http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/...t7v04j20k4gqbqv9.jpg


Thank you so much (and your friend) for these - what a wonderful compilation of Thranduil in all his glory! I think the third one down is my new favourite one!


elf-lady
Rivendell

Feb 8 2014, 2:55pm

Post #21 of 215 (9219 views)
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     Very well said [In reply to]  

I very much agree with you and I hope very much hope that Thranduil will be featured more prominently especially in interactions with Bilbo. But I fear that we'll be disappointed in that either Thranduil's scenes will be short changed in favor of what is happening with Legolas and Tauriel elsewhere or worse, some of Thranduil's actions will be given to others like (*SPOILERS*) PJ had better not have Legolas lay Orcrist on Thorin's grave, it must be Thranduil or I shall be sorely P.O.'d. Please PJ, don't do this to us. I love Legolas as a character in LOTR but the son should not usurp his father's rightful place. Evil


elf-lady
Rivendell

Feb 8 2014, 2:57pm

Post #22 of 215 (9210 views)
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     What a cool trailer! [In reply to]  

I had no idea fans did stuff like this. Wonderful intercuts of the actors' performances from other films to match the voice track! Hearing Lee Pace's voice uttering "Where does your journey end?" makes my toes curl!Blush Thanks Elanor of Rohan for sharing the link!


Elk2013
The Shire


Feb 8 2014, 3:08pm

Post #23 of 215 (9245 views)
Shortcut
     I would not tolerate ... [In reply to]  

Legolas puting Orcrist on Thorin's grave, if that should happen. That scene is a big moment for Thranduil, and more importantly, for the relation between elves and dewarves.




Tabby
Registered User

Feb 8 2014, 3:08pm

Post #24 of 215 (9193 views)
Shortcut
     Reply [In reply to]  

Just posting to say I'm glad to find lots of fellow Thranduil appreciators ;)


Rowan Greene
Lorien


Feb 8 2014, 3:31pm

Post #25 of 215 (9194 views)
Shortcut
     This is great! [In reply to]  

Thank you for sharing the link and please thank your friend on behalf of all Thranduil's Thralls for compiling these images!


In Reply To
I read the whole last thread and loved it very muc, though I've been too shy to join in. Thranduil's Trall, I'm definitely in! Thranduil was already my favorite when I first read the Hobbit 10 years ago, and Lee did a wonderful job in playing the gorgeous, enigmatic and cunning Elven King.
Here is a stunning image collection of Thrandy from movies, trailers, EE and vlogs, made by my friend Lian. Hopy you enjoy it!Cool
Link:
http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/...t7v04j20k4gqbqv9.jpg



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