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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Thranduil Appreciation Thread Part IV
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 5 2014, 8:17am

Post #1 of 219 (31047 views)
Shortcut
     The Thranduil Appreciation Thread Part IV  

You know the drill by now: Thread III is locked, so here's the start of the new Thranduil Appreciation thread.

Continuing the fine discussion from:
Thranduil Appreciation thread III
Thranduil Appreciation thread II
Thranduil Appreciation thread


Caught off-guard at how much you've missed? 1 simple click will ensure you won't miss another update again. Put this thread on watch! Locate the "Watch thread" button to the top and right of this post (button 3 of the 5 threads buttons you see) and click it).

All set? Let's get back to appreciating the Elvenking!



(In commemoration, a quick little montage I threw together using the uber primitive tools of Picture Manager and Powerpoint. I have no real skillz either)


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on May 5 2014, 8:20am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 5 2014, 9:17am

Post #2 of 219 (29670 views)
Shortcut
     Thranduil's fingerbling theorising (con't) aka look here, vanima and Eruvandi [In reply to]  

(in response to thread III's "Oooooo! That looks like THREE snakes."and "Addendum" by vanima, and Eruvandi's "What does it meeeeeeean?")

Re: Snakes on rings
vanima, I was debating (with yours truly) if there's more than 2 snakes... some of those smooth bits like twine/vine like, and even a little bit antler-ish, so perhaps it may be more to Eruvandi's point, and the same idea of the ring manifesting the decay of the Forest and the effects on Thranduil which you applied to the Mirkwood and Woodland rings? So who knows? Crazy

But with regards to serpents and the evil connotations, I'd like to point again to the Ring of Barahir, which I still feel may give us some idea of this ring's story.
"Proud are the words, and all there turned
to see the jewels green that burned
in Beren's ring. These Gnomes had set
as eyes of serpents twined that met
beneath a golden crown of flowers,
that one upholds and one devours:
the badge that Finrod made of yore
and Felagund his son now bore...
" ― Lay of Leithian, Canto IV, lines 1096-1103

The Ring of Barahir was given to Barahir by the Elven Lord Finrod Felagund, in reward for saving his life in Dagor Bragollach ("The Battle of Sudden Flame"). It was a sign of eternal friendship between Finrod and the House of Barahir. Barahir's hand and ring were taken by Gorgol the Butcher, leader of the Orcs who killed him, but were retrieved by his son Beren when he avenged his father. Beren laid the hand to rest with the rest of his father's body, but kept and wore the Ring of Barahir.
Snake motif in a significant precious of elvish-make. Could snake rings serve elven nobles by being important commemorations or to mark/forge strong alliances?

We need answers! Tongue


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Elarie
Grey Havens

May 5 2014, 2:00pm

Post #3 of 219 (29545 views)
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     Something that may or may not apply here [In reply to]  

In the pre-Christian era snakes were a symbol of wisdom and one of the symbols of the Mother goddess (nature). The association of snakes with evil comes from the tension between the monotheistic religions and the pagan religions, so wearing a snake ring could mean different things to different people, depending on your own beliefs and what you are trying to symbolize.

Hop to it, Radagast, we've got dark powers to sleigh.


Elarie
Grey Havens

May 5 2014, 2:09pm

Post #4 of 219 (29517 views)
Shortcut
     Also, the word "devours" in the poem does faintly suggest the Ouroboros [In reply to]  

Although the poem seems to be saying that the serpent is devouring the crown of flowers, not its own tail, so not sure if there's a connection there.

Hop to it, Radagast, we've got dark powers to sleigh.


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


May 5 2014, 2:55pm

Post #5 of 219 (29564 views)
Shortcut
     Congratulatory fabulous picture [In reply to]  

Well, that was fast! In celebrations of having reached the post limit...again, I present to you, another pretty pic of Thranduil. *dreamy sigh* Those eyes get me every time!Heart



"But there’s empty cross, there’s an empty tomb
Fire and wind now sweeping in this tiny upper room
There’s a hungry world, there’s a risen King
Unlock the doors, what reason more could we ever need?
So sing with me, I dare you to
Because there’s an empty cross; there’s an empty tomb"
~Empty (Disciples)-sung by Dan Haseltine and Matt Hammitt



elf-lady
Rivendell

May 5 2014, 5:13pm

Post #6 of 219 (29496 views)
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     Mesmorized by his eyes... [In reply to]  

I have nothing of significance to add to the ring discussion since I have rendered mute by Thranduil's eyes... Tongue

Geez, the 4th thread already! Way to go Thralls!


DaughterofLaketown
Gondor


May 5 2014, 5:24pm

Post #7 of 219 (29521 views)
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     This is why it is tradional for pagan to wear snakes on st Patrick's day. [In reply to]  

Snakes symbolism paganism so that is why they are worn. It's sort of an act of opposition and rebellion.


(This post was edited by DaughterofLaketown on May 5 2014, 5:24pm)


Elarie
Grey Havens

May 5 2014, 5:52pm

Post #8 of 219 (29508 views)
Shortcut
     I didn't know about wearing snakes on St. Patrick's day [In reply to]  

That's an interesting gesture; and one that I'm sure goes right by most people.

And on a less serious note (can't help myself) -

are they green snakes?
Smile

Hop to it, Radagast, we've got dark powers to sleigh.


Avandel
Half-elven

May 5 2014, 7:37pm

Post #9 of 219 (29505 views)
Shortcut
     Ah yes - Greek mythology [In reply to]  

Melampus - Seer who cared for snakes whose mother had died. Melampus awoke to find them licking his ears and thereby gained the ability to understand the language of animals and insects.

On a side note, IMO after watching DOS this weekend the thought occurred that Thranduil really is just STUNNING, looks and performance-wise. Another genius casting in the roll call of genius casting. (And OK, like RA another actor w. great skin. Which IMO is important if you are going to be having these gorgeous closeups.)

Of course, maddeningly there aren't enough images of Thranduil (from my perspective there aren't enough of the mountain king, either, but gotta admit the Thorin Thralls are better off in that regard Crazy). I don't know if these were posted before, but in looking for Thranduil material these are a couple of favorites - not my work! The red image is credited to Olga5 on Deviant Art for the bigger version (love this artist) and I don't know who did the collage, but I love the mystical drawing of Thranduil that came from a book cover - truly elven, truly other-worldly. IMO Thranduil is THE elf.





"Richard Armitage’s performance has been one of the best things about the new trilogy, making you believe that a hairy dwarf, so often the comedy element of the LOTR films, can be a heroic, tortured, and dangerous badass." - Den of Geek, The Hobbit: There & Back Again, 7 Apr 2014 - 07:07

(This post was edited by Avandel on May 5 2014, 7:37pm)


RandomSilvanElf
The Shire


May 6 2014, 8:20am

Post #10 of 219 (29420 views)
Shortcut
     Wow, another thread? [In reply to]  

I've only been away for few days and there is already a new thread.


"At this time therefore the Sindar were well-armed, and they drove off an creatures of evil, and had peace again; but Thingol’'s armouries were stored with axes and with spears and swords, and tall helms, and long coats of bright mail (...) And that proved well for Thingol in the time that was to come…"

More of my opinionated scribbles
[url"http://betweenfictionandreality.wordpress.com"]Between Fiction and Reality
[url"https://twitter.com/Elisabetta8i8"]Follow me
Follow me as I re-read my way through Silmarillion, Unfinished tales, Hobbit, Lord of the Rings and everything else I can get my hands on.


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 6 2014, 10:09am

Post #11 of 219 (29420 views)
Shortcut
     Forget gems of starlight [In reply to]  


Those there are eyes of starlight!




Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 6 2014, 10:09am

Post #12 of 219 (29388 views)
Shortcut
     I like that sentiment // [In reply to]  

 


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 6 2014, 10:14am

Post #13 of 219 (29383 views)
Shortcut
     LOL [In reply to]  

They oughta be, in keeping with the theme? But are there green beauties like this, this or this in Ireland?


Quote
are they green snakes?




Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 6 2014, 10:36am

Post #14 of 219 (29384 views)
Shortcut
     Stunners... and their self-assessments (sorta) [In reply to]  

No arguments from moi there Sly Incidentally, I found these choice quotes:
"“I suppose I’m a bit mean. My face on camera doesn’t lend itself to happy nice guys. I think it’s just that my bone structure looks menacing. I don’t smile that often.”"
Guess who? He does make a helluva good-looking 1930s spy with that look though.
My fav by far (emphasis mine):
"‘When I am in make-up,’ he says, ‘with icy-grey contact lenses, a super-ashy blond wig that is rather rough and feral, and with my eyebrows lifted up to give me a nasty, numb Elvish face – I look in the mirror and see someone totally different to boring old me!’"
No prizes for this guess (source) Smile Is it nasty? I think in this thread we sincerely beg to differ.

Gotta say, I'd love to see both of them in a good old-fashioned spy thriller set in the 20s/30s, or a period drama, or a shoot 'em western.


Thorin's thralls have it so much better. But at least there's some lovely fanart of Thranduil, like these ones you got here. Thanks much! *judiciously saving* Did you see the one with the map in his cape? I love that fanart.

Thranduil is the definitive male Elf from days of yore eh? I have that shot of him in battle-gear as my desktop wallpaper, and my sister comments every time she sees it: "That is one heck of an elf!" I guess they don't make them like that anymore.

Quote
I don't know if these were posted before, but in looking for Thranduil material these are a couple of favorites - not my work! The red image is credited to Olga5 on Deviant Art for the bigger version (love this artist) and I don't know who did the collage, but I love the mystical drawing of Thranduil that came from a book cover - truly elven, truly other-worldly. IMO Thranduil is THE elf.



I used to devour mythology as a kid, but have since relegated them to the long-term storage compartment in the head (heaven help me if I can remember where). Thanks for the reminder!


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 6 2014, 10:39am

Post #15 of 219 (29454 views)
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     LOL. That's a good one! [In reply to]  

And welcome back, RandomSilvanElf Smile

(but I guess you see how we got here... I've a compulsion to r post stuff and questions ... and also respond Tongue )


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on May 6 2014, 10:40am)


elf-lady
Rivendell

May 6 2014, 12:36pm

Post #16 of 219 (29410 views)
Shortcut
     Yes, we beg to differ! [In reply to]  

Thanks for the link to the WB document! *saves*

I have the WB Thranduil wallpaper on my work computer's desktop and once I was conducting a live webinar with my boss and was moving around some documents and minimizing them when my boss suddenly says "nice!" and I realize she's looking at Thranduil. LOL! Tongue

In Reply To
My fav by far (emphasis mine):
"‘When I am in make-up,’ he says, ‘with icy-grey contact lenses, a super-ashy blond wig that is rather rough and feral, and with my eyebrows lifted up to give me a nasty, numb Elvish face – I look in the mirror and see someone totally different to boring old me!’"
No prizes for this guess (source) Smile Is it nasty? I think in this thread we sincerely beg to differ.
AND

Thranduil is the definitive male Elf from days of yore eh? I have that shot of him in battle-gear as my desktop wallpaper, and my sister comments every time she sees it: "That is one heck of an elf!" I guess they don't make them like that anymore.



Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 6 2014, 12:45pm

Post #17 of 219 (29420 views)
Shortcut
     Addendum: Dwarf/Elf faceoff [In reply to]  

Just want to add, re my comment about seeing RA and LP in another film:
Aside from the grounded (grubby) unmovability (and probably Dwarven stiffnecked stubbornness Laugh ) of Thorin against the mercurial power, gravitas and immaculate beauty of Thranduil (which probably has been analysed and commented thoroughly by thralls in both camps), I find it fascinating that Thorin, despite his carriage as a King(in-waiting), gives the sense that he is younger than Thranduil, who feels like this being who has lived so much longer and is aware of his own presence and power, despite his stunning youthful looks. Thorin goes toe-to-toe against this Elf, despite knowing he is has less to his name in terms of power and authority. Thranduil seems to know this, and takes the opportunity to have a bit of entertainment while tsk-tsking what can probably be termed the Dwarven condition Smile Ageless, powerful beauty against unmovable cultural pride and rage. The intriguing bit is LP being actually the younger of the two, but it certainly doesn't feel so. Obviously both understand and are able to craft stunning portrayals that truly serve their respective characters (as designed by PJ and collaborators of course). They play off each other really well that I'd like to see more, not just in BotFA (if it's possible), but also in other stories, ideally adversarial, but they can be comrades, friends or collaborators thrown together by circumstances... whatever works!



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on May 6 2014, 12:48pm)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 6 2014, 1:06pm

Post #18 of 219 (29371 views)
Shortcut
     Addendum's addendum: Would have been great if the Thranduil/Thorin scene was like this though [In reply to]  

Check out this series of GIFs Heart

(*Gah at the time limit on edits*)



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 6 2014, 1:27pm

Post #19 of 219 (29365 views)
Shortcut
     Your boss has sharp eyes and a great appreciation for beauty. // [In reply to]  

 


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Bombadil
Half-elven


May 6 2014, 1:56pm

Post #20 of 219 (29344 views)
Shortcut
     Well, While all these "Thralls are Thrashin'"... [In reply to]  

Around
Angst-ly
Awesome-ing over
His Face
No One,
Anyone mentionzz his...

"Now you see it...
Now you Don't
SCAR?

That never gets discussed much?

Does he have a
Spell of Concealment
Over it?

Is it There, nor, no NOT?

Never understooood that?

CuriousBomby..getz more Curiously
Confused...Will we see THAT Again?..


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 6 2014, 2:08pm

Post #21 of 219 (29405 views)
Shortcut
     Attention to detail: A study in... [In reply to]  

... ears. Anyone noticed the 3 major Mirkwood elves have different pointy lobes? I love the attention to detail the production team dedicate themselves to.


Tauriel. Legolas. Thranduil (i found it truly difficult to get a good screencap of Thranduil's ears. The other two I just had capture, resize and viola. For Thranduil, I had to try various shots just cos his ears kept getting obscured by his hair or the scene is really dark. Ultimately I ended up meddling and maxing the hue and saturation just to be able to bring out the shape.) Tauriel's look almost like mini dumbo ears, don't they? Legolas' ear looked almost normal. I thought they looked more pointy in LotR... but what do I know. Thranduil's look the best, imo, even discounting the owner Blush

Of course this is a better sight regardless Smile



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


May 6 2014, 2:11pm

Post #22 of 219 (29392 views)
Shortcut
     It was discusssed somewhat in an earlier thread [In reply to]  

... and I believe it's still an open debate at this point. For me, I'm with the theory it's not there.Smile


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Avandel
Half-elven

May 6 2014, 3:47pm

Post #23 of 219 (29360 views)
Shortcut
     Beautifully written and completely agree! [In reply to]  

I love watching the expression shifts in Thranduil's face as Thorin confronts him - as Lee Pace said, "Thorin unsettles him". (Tho of course utterly love, love Thorin here and every gesture, expression, and voice nuance from RA).

Personally I love the scar scene, which I believe is a real injury, either the memory of it, or something hidden by elven glamor. I still think that was an elegant way for Thranduil to "cross swords" with Thorin, and also showing a bit of the horrors Thranduil knows - think it's brilliant.

Interestingly both actors describe spending time alone, focusing on their characters. Think it was really insightful that it DOES seem that Thorin is younger, and at least initially Thranduil appears so confident, and very faintly amused. The subtleties these actors are capable of (and I think Martin Freeman as well) IMO crosses the line from "acting" to "being".

Many have commented on how RA and LP seem to have drawing on each other's energy - for me it almost seemed like some sort of living connection between the two, like live current. So frustrating because if I were casting I would find an excuse or rewrite scripts just to put the two back together in a project. Even interviewers bring mention of that scene up.

"Richard Armitage’s performance has been one of the best things about the new trilogy, making you believe that a hairy dwarf, so often the comedy element of the LOTR films, can be a heroic, tortured, and dangerous badass." - Den of Geek, The Hobbit: There & Back Again, 7 Apr 2014 - 07:07


Avandel
Half-elven

May 6 2014, 4:04pm

Post #24 of 219 (29356 views)
Shortcut
     Thank you -awesome! [In reply to]  

Fascinating. I can't complain about the T & T interchange re the script - but these gifs hint at what could have been done if things had kept closer to the book.

So LOL I think PJ should bring the whole cast back and do "matching scenes" from the book as part of the ultra-deluxe collector editionCoolCoolCool

Although, *cough* there's the Peckish Owl's hilarious take on canon: http://peckishowl.deviantart.com/art/Oakentoon-56-True-Story-for-orthodox-fans-387273293


elf-lady
Rivendell

May 6 2014, 5:00pm

Post #25 of 219 (29321 views)
Shortcut
     Definitely a testament to both actors' abilities [In reply to]  

Great observation Lurker. Thorin certainly comes across as the less experienced, letting his pride get in the way of what he wants (scorning Thranduil's bargain)...after all you catch more flies with honey.

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