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Arannir
Doriath
Nov 7 2014, 9:37am
Post #1 of 29
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Trailer Reaction #2
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I think we can continue here.
This is the link to the #1 thread: http://newboards.theonering.net/..._time;so=DESC;mh=25;
Additional thoughts from me:
I am very pleased that - despite the epic/fantasy shots - the main focus of this trailer is really on the underlying dramatic theme of this trilogy: greed.
If you think about it, we do see some of the typical shots simply needed to market this kind of movies, but basically nothing from the Battle itself, nor the destruction of Lake-town or the Battle of Five Armies (with the exception of some brief sequences). All shots are more character-focused and show the charismatic and iconic characters in these situations (Bard in Lake-town, Saruman/Elrond/Galadriel in Dol Guldur, one vs. ones from the Battle).
And what really comes to the forefront is the unique feature of this movie: the Free Peoples driven by greed, pride and politics (some understandable, some not so much).
In my family - most not very Tolkien-savvy, this was really what stood out for them. They were very intruiged that the real drama and serious stuff seems to be going down between the good guys and not just with the good guys standing together against Evil.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Nov 7 2014, 9:39am)
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Nov 7 2014, 10:35am
Post #2 of 29
(779 views)
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Wow. I just had a quick glance through the post subjects in the first thread. Seems like reactions are more mixed than for the teaser.
Personally, there are things both to like and not. Some quick thoughts:
- The starting strains of the music. Throws me off. Piano does not quite feel Middle-earth, more accompaniment for some serious PSA or some other, probably contemporary/conventional movie. Where's the epic strings section that characterised ME epicness? Oh... it builds up and then take over from the piano. Much better once they took over. Should have gone with them strings for the whole thing.
- Can't wait to see what brings down the huge Dwarf sentinels guarding Erebor's gates. Siege engines, which we've discussed before, just doesn't seem like the right party favour for this bash.
- Liking the contrast/complement between Thranduil and Thorin that's been demonstrated in their scene together in DoS. Though, and I'll probably catch hex for saying this, the penchant for creating those Thorin moments where he looks like the protagonist on the covers of fluffy school-girl romance novels my classmates, back in the day, were always burying their noses into is wearing thin for me. He's better than that, and they shouldn't have to resort to it. And Thranduil: it seems he's reduced to a pining sentimental just obsessed with some personal thing and vindication.Still look EPIC and FABULOUS though.
- Love Thranduil's laying it down on Gandalf.
- Nazgul! Does it make sense for them to be out and about at this juncture? But it is a different incarnation.
- He-man Elrond and quivering-flower Galadriel seems so wrong.
- Was the Legolas "bred for one purpose/for war"-preceding-Aragorn's-moment-with-Theoden REALLY necessary? Yet another one of those overkill "Hey look, callback/nod/resonance" with LotR bit.
- Dreading the focus on the weird three-way thingy. Kili and Tauriel sure get quite a few moments. Even more than Legolas it seems. But what about Fili? Even Alfrid and the Master have a few frames and all Fili got is a shot of the back of his head.
- Did we see Iron Hills Dwarves?
- Legolas gets some badass action. Looking good and hints at refreshing difference from surfer!Elf.
- Dwalin's line - expected that from Balin. But I suppose it has it's own impact coming from Thorin's BFF.
- The trolls, bats and the orcs marching into those tunnels look EPIC! So does Thranduil's army. But it seemed a bit too huge, and takes away the tension of the sheer force of numbers feel from those marching ants lines of orcs.
- The hints that say key moments of Thranduil from the book are probably not in the movie. The ones that show how he's one of the few sane minds in this crazy affair, and he IS NOT the villain. But PJ's had a penchant for muddying the waters, as he did in the DoS trailer with Thranduil. In this one, with Sauron in the light, it might seem a clever thing to continue painting Thranduil's antagonism and ambivalence. Plus, with Thorin seeming turn to the dark side, and Saruman's (epic line from Christopher Liee) heroic standup to the unveiled Sauron, it probably adds to the thrill for the general movie-goer. Guess PJ's not kidding when he said it's got thriller all over it. Regardless, not a fan of the Thranduil/Tauriel moment.
- I like how the teaser and the trailer are complementary to each other, especially in highlighting different aspects of characters we see in both. Also the reuse of some images, like the Elven archers, shots of Erebor (in and out) and Lake-town/Dale to connect them.
"I'll say dark and gritty, which, with the Elvenking, translates as Hot and Sexy.  " - vanima ephel
I fancy myself an ME BFF (Book/Film Fan) 
(Aaaaand a gushy Thranduil fangurl before The Hobbit movies; still a gushy Thranduil fangurl through them.  )
 Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XXII
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII | XIV | XV | XVI | XVII | XVIII | XIX | XX | XXI
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
 Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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Spriggan
Dor-Lomin
Nov 7 2014, 10:45am
Post #3 of 29
(738 views)
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For me, the best trailer bar TTT
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Very much for the reasons you allude to.
Whilst trailers are not, of course, good guides to the proportion of content in the finished film, just the inclusion and staging of some of the scenes here seems very postive to me.
As soon as I saw the scene of Bard talking to Thorin through the barricade I was pretty much sold. I think the idea of these two leaders contrasted with each other is exactly the sort of thing an adpatation could and should draw out from the text, and builds on themes of leadership, isolation and internal evil from DOS.
Even from that glimpse we can see the contrast and depth of what it says about the characters. Bard has clearly come alone to talk, at risk to himself, whereas Thorin stands behind a physical and metaphorical barrier of his own making, shutting himself off from the world beyond.
The shot of Bard's face at the end of the "dark tunnel" from Thorin's side indicates that the distance is not so large and there is still light there for Thorin if only he could overcome his internal barriers. Also it is very interesting that we the audience are on the inside - suggesting that we will be situated at the heart of a tension between being on Thorin's "side" but also knowing he is wrong.
Finally, Thorin himself, unable even to face Bard and, I would assume, allowing his true feelings to show as he is alone and not having to wear a mask for his fellow dwarves. His body language shows us him hiding, despairing, his back literally against the wall, but unable to overcome his pride and greed to step out into the light.
Now that, for my money, is a very good couple of seconds of adaptation.
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Spriggan
Dor-Lomin
Nov 7 2014, 11:01am
Post #4 of 29
(721 views)
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The slight issue I would take with the internal references between trilogies
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Is that this is precisely the approach that Tolkien took in creating his own sequel.
LOTR repeatedly and deliberately references the Hobbit in a thousand ways and was clearly something Tolkien felt was appropriate, so it doesn't seem to me to be an inappropriate device for the films to use.
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dormouse
Gondolin
Nov 7 2014, 12:18pm
Post #6 of 29
(643 views)
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I'm not sure that it is being 'shoved at the audience'....
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.. as a deliberate tactic. After all, the greater part of the audience is not going to remember the script of the previous films word for word.
As Spriggan pointed out, Tolkien himself used similar devices, similar words and phrases across his books, and that may also not have been deliberate. Writers do tend to have characteristic turns of phrase. I know because I am one and I do. It's one of the things I look out for in the proofs and try to edit out - editors notice them for you too, if they're good. But as I understand it, scriptwriters don't have an editor. They may not notice repeat phrases - you don't, first time round - and an actor who wasn't in the previous films isn't likely to notice either. Or even one who was, they've all done other films since LotR.
What you're picking up on may be nothing more than the curse of knowing the previous films too well.
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Spriggan
Dor-Lomin
Nov 7 2014, 12:51pm
Post #7 of 29
(608 views)
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Personally, I've always seen it as very overt intertextuality. I think we are supposed to see clear references and parallels between the two texts and to consider the contrasts and comparisons between the two.
Let's take the use of eagles as a single example from very many. Their use in the Hobbit is to rescue Gandalf from a high place near the Misty Mountains and then later to arrive at the final battle to the line, "The eagles are coming".
Their use in LOTR is to rescue Gandalf from a high place near the Misty Mountains (twice!) and then later to arrive at the final battle to the line, "The eagles are coming".
For me, this is clearly a deliberate technique as opposed to an oversight or lack of imagination. I would also suspect that if this had been a purely film parallel, not present in the text, reactions to it would be markedly different!
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 7 2014, 12:51pm
Post #8 of 29
(677 views)
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that scene of the giant stone statue crashing down in front of the entrance to the Lonely Mountain. I think that the dwarves bring it down in front of the Gate to form their barrier, instead of building a wall using individual stones. There's a shot of Thorin looking out down the valley from what appears to be a vantage point on top of the remnants of the statue.
And from this, a wilder theory popped into my head. Maybe it's the statue that leads the way to the Back Door. Maybe Thorin has them bring it down not only to block the front entrance but to prevent anyone from getting out the back door either - for instance, if he starts to suspect that Bilbo or some of the other dwarves aren't entirely with him as the dragon sickness begins to take hold and his failure to find the Arkenstone pushes him over the edge. So maybe Bilbo feels not protected by the wall, but deliberately trapped inside the Mountain. Maybe that's what pushes him into sneaking out at night to hand over the Arkenstone to their besiegers.
I'm looking forward to finding out.
Silverlode
Want a LOTR Anniversary footer of your own? Get one here!
"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."
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Bombadil
Gondolin
Nov 7 2014, 1:02pm
Post #10 of 29
(599 views)
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An Amazing Mind you Have Silverlode!
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bom was curious about
Thizz...
Playzz into Thorinzz
Madness
Even the Statures of the Fallen
Kings won't get in Thorinzz WAY?
Even if this iz Wrong?
THizz Image izz WAyWonderful!
Thang you Berry Buch
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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mae govannen
Dor-Lomin
Nov 7 2014, 1:03pm
Post #11 of 29
(595 views)
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Very interesting observations and comments! //
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'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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Arannir
Doriath
Nov 7 2014, 1:15pm
Post #12 of 29
(578 views)
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That was my thought as well.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Noria
Hithlum
Nov 7 2014, 1:21pm
Post #13 of 29
(574 views)
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Silverlode, that's what I thought too
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when I first saw the trailer: that the Dwarves brought down the statue to make their wall. Wasn't there a scene in the first trailer in which Kili is levering a giant fragment of statuary?
I like your second theory - that would be really cool.
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Arannir
Doriath
Nov 7 2014, 2:11pm
Post #15 of 29
(565 views)
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Look at 2.01 and 2.02 of the trailer.
I think this is before Smaug dies... I think you can see his shadow flying in front of the flames.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Nov 7 2014, 2:12pm)
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Elessar
Doriath
Nov 7 2014, 3:04pm
Post #16 of 29
(514 views)
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The reactions seem to be fairly strong in the impression this was a fantastic trailer and has people excited to see the movie.
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Arannir
Doriath
Nov 7 2014, 3:08pm
Post #17 of 29
(504 views)
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It was very mixed here because of the CGI discussion.
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But imho on YT and especially other (very critical regarding this trilogy) forums the reception is much better than for the teaser for sure.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Loresilme
Doriath
Nov 7 2014, 3:40pm
Post #18 of 29
(474 views)
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That makes so much sense Silverlode! And how much more meaningful, perhaps distressing, to the dwarves, to be forced to destroy the statue themselves.
Are you by chance a mystery fan? You have quite a sleuthing talent there  !
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Elessar
Doriath
Nov 7 2014, 3:40pm
Post #19 of 29
(469 views)
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I just chalked the CGI stuff up to a couple people bickering. I had no issues with the CGI in trailer.
I teaser was pretty darn good as was this.
* I don't think these films could be any less fun to talk about if they tried.
(This post was edited by Elessar on Nov 7 2014, 3:43pm)
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shadowdog
Nargothrond
Nov 7 2014, 4:01pm
Post #20 of 29
(498 views)
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Of course I am from the old school where trailer showed the characters and the story in real time. This rapid fire jumping from scene to scene in no order whatsoever makes me dizzy. But loving the movies so far and looking forward to seeing the final one. May actually have to break down and drive to a theater to watch it. I am over 60 miles from the nearest movie theater where I live now. There haven't been many movies that I care to drive 120 miles round trip and spend $50 on gas to watch a movie.
(This post was edited by shadowdog on Nov 7 2014, 4:12pm)
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shadowdog
Nargothrond
Nov 7 2014, 4:09pm
Post #21 of 29
(444 views)
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Has not seen LoTRs over and over to the point of having the lines memorized. It will just seem familiar as part of Middle Earth to them. And Jackson is making these movies for a world wide audience not just us fanatics.
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DwellerInDale
Nargothrond
Nov 7 2014, 4:42pm
Post #22 of 29
(421 views)
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The 1080p version should be mandatory viewing
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Living in southeast Asia as I do, I could not quite stay up late enough to view the trailer when it debuted, but looked forward to seeing some good discussion the next morning. I was shocked at how the initial reaction thread descended into bickering about CGI. Having downloaded the 1080p version (which anyone can do from the link in this thread) and seeing how amazing everything looked, I wondered if all the fuss was generated by nothing more than viewing the trailer at relatively low resolution. Thanks for providing a second thread where (hopefully) there can be more in-depth discussion.
Don't mess with my favorite female elf.
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adt100
Nargothrond
Nov 7 2014, 4:55pm
Post #23 of 29
(406 views)
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I watched it 9 times, 1080p, full screen 27" iMac and thought I looked amazing!
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Hence my utter confusion at the cgi rants of some. I ended up just leaving the thread as could see the naysayers were not going to be convinced and it does sadly just descend into pointless bickering.
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adt100
Nargothrond
Nov 7 2014, 5:09pm
Post #24 of 29
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Some 'homages' I'm ok with, some do feel too heavy!
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The thing is, these films are filmed over what, 18months +? There's 100's maybe 1000's of hours of footage and at the time, the odd echoing off scenes/moments in LOTR might not seem heavy handed. It's just when compressed to the 3, 3hr films that you do seem to think 'oh that's just like x and y' in LOTR. Often just little thing, the odd line, for example Thorin's "what say you" to the Master in DOS, or Gandalf asking Thorin to unite the Dwarve armies in Bree, to which Thorin replies about how they only swear allegience to the one who holds the kings jewel.
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Eruonen
Gondolin
Nov 7 2014, 5:12pm
Post #25 of 29
(389 views)
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I agree, I thought it was a terrific trailer.
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Everyone here has their internal imaginings of what
should and should not be or look or feel and sometimes that overtakes the opportunity to truly enjoy what has been presented. Sure, I can quibble about a few things but it in no way makes me less eager to see the film. Overall, I thought this trailer may be either the best or in the top 2 of all LOTR/Hobbit trailers.
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Belated. Feels: Ambivalence.
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