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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Sep 23 2014, 4:52am
Post #101 of 206
(10346 views)
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when the Party King gets going... I find myself empathising with Legolas
Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
 Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII
 Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
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 Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Sep 23 2014, 4:53am
Post #102 of 206
(10401 views)
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So spam away, VValar... just be mindful so you don't call down Wrath of Mod
Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Sep 23 2014, 4:55am)
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Sep 23 2014, 9:39am
Post #103 of 206
(10365 views)
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heheheh
link
Legolas cannot lie
link
And this just had me laughing... Guess who? May not be a "Get-it" kind of thing for others, but eh... seafood Dwarf, tw readers
link
Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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cats16
Gondolin
Sep 23 2014, 9:41am
Post #104 of 206
(10334 views)
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Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!
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mariel
Menegroth
Sep 23 2014, 2:55pm
Post #105 of 206
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I tend to agree with you. I didn't find that Thranduil came across as particularly personally greedy. The book mentioned that he had a weakness for treasure, but the way I read it was that he wanted it for the prestige it would bestow upon him in relation to other Elven rulers, rather than just wanting it because he liked gold and jewels. Then when he heard that Smaug was dead and believing the dwarves must have perished it would make sense for him to try and claim some of the treasure for his people. At the time his kingdom was under siege from the dark powers at Dol Guldur and if they got possession of it things could be made a whole lot worse for him. However. when he arrived with his army and was asked for aid by the Laketowners he turned his whole force aside to help – didn't send some to help and others to get some of the [believed at the time to be unguarded] treasure. And then, when Dain and his army showed up it was Bard who wanted to fight them, but Thranduil refused saying [as in your avatar] that long would he tarry ere he started a battle for gold and hoped for some sort of reconciliation and it was actually the dwarves who made the first moves in the offensive. As it turned out it was lucky for the dwarves and men that the elves [and Beorn and the eagles who came a bit later] were there when the battle with the orcs/goblins, wargs etc attacked or they would have been overwhelmed and there would be no dwarf kingdom again in Erebor. The goblins had come to attack the dwarves to avenge the death of their king and also attain domination in the north , but they also made a beeline for the treasure when they heard of the death of Smaug. After the battle was over Thranduil didn't ask for any compensation and nor was he, or Beorn or the eagles offered any by the dwarves. In fact the only act of generosity came from Bard who gave a necklace [emeralds in the book] to Thranduil and a chest of gold and silver to Bilbo.
Of course, I'm aware from reading your previous thread that others view Thranduil's motives totally differently, which is completely their prerogative, and it seems that never the twain shall meet. I don't think the movie portrayal helps either, showing him lusting after the starlight jewels, both in the AUJ EE and in the confrontation with Thorin, things that didn't actually happen in the book.
I hope this ramble makes some sort of sense, but it is just my view of things and like you I'm not interested in getting involved in the same argument or trying to change the minds of others. Mind you, I don't think Thranduil is a perfect being – far from it – that would make him very boring.
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Eruvandi
Dor-Lomin
Sep 23 2014, 2:59pm
Post #106 of 206
(10378 views)
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I had looked up his name awhile ago, but I forgot it when I wrote the post so I got lazy and called him horn-blowing-elf-guy...again. His name is Feren and he's played by Simon London who's pretty cute, IMO.
*sigh* I'm so fickle in my affections. Sorry about that, Leggy and Thrandy!
I'd wager he might be that messenger who gets shot at by Thorin after telling him to eat the gold in Erebor for lunch... cheering for him if that's the case
LOL! Yeah, me too!
"Home is behind the world ahead
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadow to the edge of night
Until the stars are all alight.
Mist and shadow
Cloud and shade
All shall fade
All shall fade"
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Eruvandi
Dor-Lomin
Sep 23 2014, 4:55pm
Post #107 of 206
(10302 views)
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Heh... I have a feeling it's a pretty tough order to be taller than LP since he is so tall! Clearly I missed that post because I had no idea he was over 6'5"! Yes, suddenly all those pics of him towering over people who are supposed to be 6'3" and ladies having to stand on boxes to kiss him make much more sense. And he even had to kneel down for the costume people to adjust his headdress? Wow!
*swoon and THUD and swoon and THUD*
"Home is behind the world ahead
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadow to the edge of night
Until the stars are all alight.
Mist and shadow
Cloud and shade
All shall fade
All shall fade"
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ltnjmy
Ossiriand
Sep 23 2014, 5:49pm
Post #108 of 206
(10348 views)
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I loved your analysis of Thranduil's motives Lurker !
[In reply to]
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Very, very nice. I also think that when the great professor wrote about Thranduil in the Hobbit - he still had in his great mind the fact that Thranduil (and his dad) came from Doriath, the horrible wars they went through, losing his dad during the battle of the Last Alliance (remember - the great professor was also a veteran of World War I and saw the horrors of the Western Front in France).
Thranduil marched thinking about his people - IMHO - first and foremost and my thoughts/appraisal about his "greediness" has changed a great deal over the years. Nice analysis dear friend. 
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Eruvandi
Dor-Lomin
Sep 23 2014, 7:08pm
Post #109 of 206
(10342 views)
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I believe it was the Cloaks and Daggers book that says Leggy has a mithril shirt and you can see it under his tunic? in several pics.
It's mentioned somewhere I think. But anyway, since he wasn't at the muster... I guess unless Thranduil brought his wardrobe along as well, Leggy might have to make do with what he's wearing or salvage from the fallen? If he didn't wear armor for all those big LOTR battles I don't think he's wear armor for Botfa. (Even if he would look gooood in it! ) Anyway, with all of the running and jumping he does while fighting, it would probably just slow him down, hence the Mithril which is light and still protective.
Re the muster: Leggy could still be at the muster even though he was chasing Bolg at the end of DOS. At the beginning of the Botfa teaser trailer we can see Leggy and Tauriel from the back as they watch the refugees, with a smoking Laketown in the background. Since we now know that Thranduil shows up to help the Laketowners after they've gotten to Dale and the place in that pic is not Dale, we can assume that Leggy comes back before that time. IIRC, in the book, Thranduil first heard about Smaug's death via the birds, but PJ doesn't seem to want to use talking animals of any form, so I think Leggy may take the place of the birds and go tell his father what has happened.
"Home is behind the world ahead
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadow to the edge of night
Until the stars are all alight.
Mist and shadow
Cloud and shade
All shall fade
All shall fade"
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Rembrethil
Dor-Lomin
Sep 23 2014, 7:11pm
Post #110 of 206
(10286 views)
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Certainly all opinions are welcome...though not all are as popular!!
I thank you for your own perspective on this topic, and welcome you to the forum!!
If I may, I'd like to add a small suggestion here. Your text came up in one large block. It's a bit hard on the eyes and makes your post look incredibly dense and difficult to read. Unfortunately, that will make some people opt to gloss over your valuable thoughts, so in the interest of readability, perhaps some paragraph/line breaks might be included in your next post?
I hope I don't sound mean or unkind, but I do want you to get the most responses to your excellent points.
Welcome to the boards mariel!!!
Call me Rem, and remember, not all who ramble are lost...Uh...where was I?
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mariel
Menegroth
Sep 23 2014, 7:42pm
Post #111 of 206
(10312 views)
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You don't sound in the least mean or unkind. Thanks for the welcome and the advice. I shall certainly bear it mind if I ever feel moved to spout on at length again.
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VValar
Mithlond
Sep 23 2014, 8:19pm
Post #112 of 206
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Yes he has such a beautiful smile *swoon*
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I bet if we see Thranduil laugh a bit more in BoFA, we could see where Leggy gets his dashing and enchanting smile from. Although I think there will be little reason for Thranduil to smile in the midst of all the fighting. Maybe if he sees Legolas is alive and well after the battle?
This was one of my favourite moments of Legolas (or in general) in FotR because he has such a sweet and beautiful smile Oh and oopsie about forgetting the HTR alert. I won't forget for the next time:
HTR alert 
(because it's sooo big and it's Leggy)
http://fc09.deviantart.net/...theother-d71cxcv.jpg
And another one of my favourite fanart of Thranduil. This is actually not a screencap but digital art!
http://fc02.deviantart.net/...nocanine-d7hd8vb.png
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VValar
Mithlond
Sep 23 2014, 8:57pm
Post #113 of 206
(10307 views)
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Thanks for your reply and good to know we agree on a lot of things. I already agreed with Lurker for the most part so it's save to say there's a lot of mutual understanding among the Thralls
I feel Thranduil calls himself King because he is inspired by / modelling himself on Thingol, and he governs his realm as a kingdom. Lothlorien, however, can one call it a kingdom? Were there that many Elves even living there?
You could be right since he also wanted to gain treasure for the sheer status it would bestow upon him (not because he simply likes gold and shiney objects). But Oropher was King before Thranduil, making him Prince until Oropher fell in Dagorlad, thus gaining the titel of King after his father died. I believe I somewhere read that the Silvan Elves wanted to make Oropher their King, though I can't seem to find the entire article anymore. I did however find the following writing about the subject of Oropher being named King:
He eventually ended up in Greenwood the Great, where Silvan Elves of Nandorin descent lived, and he was taken by them as lord.
The Silvan Elves, who originally lived in the south of Greenwood, accepted Oropher as their King, who ruled from his capital on Amon Lanc. Over the course of the Second Age they gradually moved north to live around the Emyn Duir.
Though it doesn't specifically state the Silvan's actually giving Oropher (and Thranduil) the title of King and Prince, one could imply the only reason Oropher and Thranduil used this status is because it was given to them. And obviously they accepted their offer and became their respective leaders and ruled over the Silvans and part of the Sindar.
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VValar
Mithlond
Sep 23 2014, 9:11pm
Post #114 of 206
(10281 views)
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Titeled 'hmmm... or is it a Thranduil double?' I thought you meant it was not the real Thranduil we see there, but a double. Whereas I replied it looked like the real LP Thranduil to me, cause same nose etc. But you obviously meant something else, the double we see in the background is not Leggy's but Thrandy's double? Though he looks like a Leggy 2 to me Aaaaaanyway, no biggie, my reply wasn't that interesting. But it's nice to know it's being read and if I'm not very clear about what I mean (or misread something) you ask me about it.
PS this is the freakin' 3rd(!) time I had to rewrite my post because the TORn went into an error. Good thing it wasn't such a long post
(This post was edited by VValar on Sep 23 2014, 9:11pm)
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VValar
Mithlond
Sep 23 2014, 9:52pm
Post #116 of 206
(10290 views)
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Thanks for the good reads! By the looks of it anyone with any land and a couple of followers could start his own Kingdom lol, it doesn't take a whole lot to become a King in ME it seems. Although being accepted by your fellow leaders/Kings across MIddle Earth would be something else entirely. Still, like I said in my post to Kerewyn, it might appear Oropher was given the title of King by his Silvan followers. Though it's still fairly open for interpretation. Still if this were true, by what right could the Silvan just name a 'random' Elf, who was not even of the same Elven race, their King? Though he might not be as randomly selected as one would assume by reading the text:
In the Beleriandic society of the First Age, only very few Elves were endowed with the title of “prince” (.............) Though Oropher (and by default Thranduil) is, as generally known, of Sindarin origin, Tolkien considered his identity delicate enough as to place and discuss him in a segment of restricted content dedicated only to the “Sindarin Princes of Silvan Elves”.
I don't think Thranduil and Bard would be particularly close, especially as I believe Thranduil would have killer negotiator savvy and any EL/Dale trade pacts may have Bard frowning a little at the end despite the friendly ties they have
LOL at your description of Thranduil's trading and negotiator abilities being all savvy and calculating. He's just so smart
Re Gondor's relations with Eryn Lasgalen, good point about most contact would probably go (if any) through Faramir and Legolas (of course) since Faramir is the Steward and Aragorn would probably not occupy himself too much with keeping a close relationship with Thranduil. Although interesting thought you have about this might be very differently than we percieve if Aragorn/Thranduil would have met before. Didn't Aragorn take Gollum to Mirkwood to ask the Elves if they could watch him? He must have asked Thranduil's permission, so I'm sure they would have met before (only I'm not sure Thranduil would have taking much liking in Aragorn if this was their only contact).
I think this just means Celeborn does ultimately set sail, though it's not known exactly when. The intriguing bit is, if he's the last, does it refer to recent history only, or all through ME history? If the former, which I prefer, then there's still the window for Thranduil sailing on also. If the latter... bummer! BUT we know historical records are never perfectly accurate so I hope
I'm with you on that one, I'd ike to understand this means Celeborn DID eventually leave ME and sail West. And by being the last of the Eldar to remember the Elder days in ME, this would mean Thranduil indeed left before him. Ahh let me have my happy thought on this one, I would be very sad to learn otherwise. It makes sense of Celeborn eventually sailing West, to be reunited with Galadriel.
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VValar
Mithlond
Sep 23 2014, 10:12pm
Post #118 of 206
(10266 views)
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Thanks for your elaborate post!
It's clear to me that it's a general misconception Thranduil went treasure hunting, after learning Smaug had died, just because he wanted to fill up his treasure chamber. It's like he said in DOS to Thorin: "I warned your grandfather of what his greed would summon, but he would not listen." This tells me Thranduil does not gather treasure just because, and he would certainly not risk the lives of him or his people to get a few more shiney objects (unlike the Dwarves, who did not reconsider their actions and what it could lead to). Thranduil is so very wise like that, taking everything in consideration
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VValar
Mithlond
Sep 23 2014, 10:34pm
Post #120 of 206
(10260 views)
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Lol @ Legolas resists the Battle Elk 'Mindy' cartoon
Clicky ! 
Oh and just because I hadn't posted this pic of Thranduil in a long time. Here's a very nice HR Pretty! of Thranduil
(Clicky)
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VValar
Mithlond
Sep 23 2014, 10:37pm
Post #121 of 206
(10252 views)
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You know I have a bad feeling about Feren as well  ............ He seems like a nice and loyal Elf. Let's hope he'll survive. I saw him running around with Legolas in a behind the scene episode, which means he must still be alive at that time.
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VValar
Mithlond
Sep 23 2014, 10:56pm
Post #123 of 206
(10246 views)
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I love you added this picture of Legolas. Is it the same as your Twitter background?
If he didn't wear armor for all those big LOTR battles I don't think he's wear armor for Botfa. (Even if he would look gooood in it! ) Anyway, with all of the running and jumping he does while fighting, it would probably just slow him down, hence the Mithril which is light and still protective.
Good point, I guess we won't be seeing Legolas in armour then. Though it's a bit of a missed opportunity if you ask me, just imagine him and Thranduil fighting side by side in their smashing armour outfit, in the middle of the snowstorm, looking all etherial and dangerous and just smoking hot
so I think Leggy may take the place of the birds and go tell his father what has happened.
I hope/think if this moment happens, it wil be early on in the movie. And I do hope it happens! A little more father-son interaction.
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Sep 24 2014, 11:02am
Post #124 of 206
(10250 views)
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I bet if we see Thranduil laugh a bit more in BoFA, we could see where Leggy gets his dashing and enchanting smile from. Although I think there will be little reason for Thranduil to smile in the midst of all the fighting. Maybe if he sees Legolas is alive and well after the battle? Yes. And if he's still stern because he needs to maintain the dignity of father and ruler, I'm hoping we see some surely heartmelting smiles when he bids farewell to Bilbo as in the book.
Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Sep 24 2014, 11:06am
Post #125 of 206
(10228 views)
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But it's nice to know it's being read and if I'm not very clear about what I mean (or misread something) you ask me about it. Sure! I would like if my words aren't clear that I am given the opportunity to clarify so I try to do that too. You know, karma and all that
PS this is the freakin' 3rd(!) time I had to rewrite my post because the TORn went into an error. Good thing it wasn't such a long post
Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIV
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII | XIII
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Sep 24 2014, 11:07am)
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Agreed! You're so right, mariel
[
A little appreciation for another Sindar Prince (like Thranduil 
