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Kim
Doriath
Jun 22 2014, 7:11pm
Post #1 of 22
(2606 views)
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DOS Chapter of the Week: Queer Lodgings
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Welcome to this week's chapter of the week, in which we get to explore Beorn's house in detail.
The scene starts with Beorn emerging from the woods and we see him change from his bear form to a man. If you look closely, you can see the manacle on his left arm.
1. What did you think of the transformation process? Were you expecting something more extreme?
We next see him enter his house, and Bilbo sees him.
2. What do you think Bilbo was thinking at this point? How about Beorn?
We then switch to a view of the horses in the field the next morning.
3. What did you think of this shot? I think this is one of the most beautiful scenes in the movie. I would have liked the camera to be pulled back a bit so we could get more of a panorama of the view, and of course, for it to last longer.
Next we see a couple of giant bees waking up Bilbo. He gets up and wanders over to the table where the dwarves and Gandalf are already gathered.
4. Why do you think they didn’t wake him up sooner? Kinda mean to make a Hobbit miss breakfast. 
5. Thorin and Balin are the only dwarves not seated at the table-why? It appears that Kili and Fili wouldn’t scootch over to make room for Uncle Thorin at the end of the table. And my assumption is that Balin gave up his seat for Bilbo. Or maybe he just wants to be on his feet when talking with an unknown-potentially-hostile being?
6. What did you think of the interior of Beorn’s house now that we can see it in more detail? I love all the carvings in the wood posts. And I never noticed the horse behind Bilbo’s bed as the bees wake him up until just now!
7. What did you notice on the table? I like the bread and honey in front of Bilbo as a subtle call out to the book.
Beorn starts to tell them about Azog and the history of his people.
8. What did you think of Beorn’s characterization now that we can see him up close?
Beorn then comments that they need to reach the mountain before the last days of autumn and Gandalf says they must travel through Mirkwood. Beorn tells them that a darkness lies upon the forest, and that there is an alliance between the orcs of Moria and the necromancer in Dol Goldur.
I really like this shot, Beorn feels very “other”
9. What did you think of this news? Do you think Gandalf was surprised to hear about the alliance? A very subtle expression of concern flits across his face at the news.
Gandalf comments that they will take the Elven Road as it is still safe, and Beorn comments, “The Wood Elves of Mirkwood are not like their kin, they are less wise, and more dangerous, but it matters not.“ Thorin asks what he means.
Beorn replies that the lands are crawling with orcs and that they will never reach the forest alive.
10. What did you think of Beorn's comment? The music at this point becomes very ominous.
Beorn then tells them that he doesn’t like dwarves and that they are blind to the lives of those they deem lesser than their own. He picks up the white mouse and the music gets even more ominous.
11. What did you think Beorn was going to do with the mouse?
Beorn makes his point about dwarves and then ask Thorin, “what do you need?” with a bit of a twinkle in his eye, which ends the scene.
12. Any overall comments on the staging of this scene? One thing that struck me was that none of the other dwarves spoke – they were oddly quiet compared to other dining scenes we’d seen up to this point. Do you think Beorn’s presence was intimidating?
13. Any other thoughts on this scene, music, lighting etc?
Thorin’s hair: well, it just looks wonderful and freshly groomed after a good night’s sleep, doesn’t it? Here, let’s have one more photo just to make sure:
Thorin is not amused by Beorn, but his hair looks fabulous.
Sorry this took a little time to post – there were an awful lot of Thorin photos in this scene to choose from! 
"Jagatud rõõm on topelt rõõm - a shared joy is a double joy". ~Estonian saying
“As such, you will address His Majesty as His Majesty, the Lord of Silver Fountains, the King of Carven Stone, the King Beneath the Mountain, the Lion of Erebor, the High King of the Dwarves, the True Treasure of Erebor, the Face that Launched 10,000 Sighs, or Thorin the Majestic..."
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Dor-Lomin
Jun 22 2014, 7:56pm
Post #2 of 22
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I like the presence the gravitas Beorn´s figure has, when he enters in human form into the house and Bilbo sees him. I like those goats to be complety calm beside him.
I like a lot how they handeled his eyes, having the actor with a natural big blue eyes they changed them and made them brown and I feel via CGI they made them a little bit bigger, that gives the feeling of being more wild, more animal like IMO
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Dor-Lomin
Jun 22 2014, 7:57pm
Post #3 of 22
(2300 views)
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And I didn´t notice I´m in Gondorrr, yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!
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The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!
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Kim
Doriath
Jun 22 2014, 8:10pm
Post #4 of 22
(2291 views)
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I wasn't too sure about the design of his human form before the movie came out, but I found that his presence and gravitas really made it work. And yes, his eyes really helped convey that wild animal sense as well.
Thanks for commenting, and congrats on reaching Gondor!
"Jagatud rõõm on topelt rõõm - a shared joy is a double joy". ~Estonian saying
“As such, you will address His Majesty as His Majesty, the Lord of Silver Fountains, the King of Carven Stone, the King Beneath the Mountain, the Lion of Erebor, the High King of the Dwarves, the True Treasure of Erebor, the Face that Launched 10,000 Sighs, or Thorin the Majestic..."
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Retro315
Ossiriand
Jun 22 2014, 8:15pm
Post #5 of 22
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1. I was expecting more extreme, yeah. I figured PJ couldn't resist doing a full-blown movie werebeast transformation and I was dreading it because it would kill the mystique. So when it never happened, and a subtle, silhouetted, moonlit transformation occurred, I barely noticed it. And the cutting between bear and man was done well in a way that imitates the book, where bears are snuffling about, then Beorn is coming in and out of the house.
2. Gandalf's comments about Beorn's likelihood of harming them earlier certainly would play with Bilbo - I think it's exactly that reason why he took out the Ring - perhaps he was pondering not being around when a snarling bear-man returned. Secondary thoughts? My god that guy is tall.
3. The ponies are obviously a gorgeous shot. The sting of the theatrical cut here is that it's obvious the location of Beorn's cabin is a bit of splendor, and sort of this Trilogy's "Edoras" - the place so gorgeous you'll want to live there. Which is certainly fitting. The point being, we're clearly meant to spend a lot more time here. Outdoors, indoors. It was the theatrical cut that stung most for me, more than any even in the LOTR. Can not wait until October.
4. It's part of the book that Bilbo slept way late that night - after all they've hiked down the Carrock and had a scary wolves & eagles night, on top of a goblin escape, and that had a stone giant night before it. It's the first major stop & rest he's had in days. Very busy days.
5. I just took the movement as a cinematic trick - it's easier to follow the guy walking and talking with the camera and know who's doing the talking, and treat the rest of the dwarves as a bit of background. And obviously to show off more of the cabin interior set.
6. I wish I lived there.
7. I wish I ate there. That wedge of big cheese has my name on it.
8. Beorn's interesting. It's so far from what I would have done with him but I understand the decisions. I'm really eager to see the BTS extended stuff about designing him. What I really like, even though I wouldn't have designed him like that myself, is just how much he evokes a bear - the bristle-back of his mane of mullet distinguishes him as more "country" and rustic and feral than long-haired heroes like Aragorn or Boromir or even Thorin and Gandalf, while resembling the hackles on the shoulders of a bear. His muzzle, visible through the beard, gives his long face a distinctly bear-like shape to it. I probably wouldn't have left the gap-space between the two halves of his beard, I'd have left hair on his chin, too ... but I find having no mustache, just bristly whiskers under his nose adds an element to Beorn that I really, really like. I also like the intensity and inquisitiveness his eyes give off, and I expected more of a booming voice than a raspy one, but the raspy growl was a nice touch. I'm mostly satisfied with Beorn, but won't be completely satisfied until I see that scene of him woodcutting, shirtless, in a more natural sunlight.
9. Ian McKellan's expression is great. Far more nuanced than some of the hamfisted "hints" we get later. It might also be more potent if Gandalf hadn't already been warned about Mirkwood like four times by now, but it's also catching people up who haven't watched AUJ in a year or so. And the geography is right - Moria and Dol Guldur allied in the South of the forest, wicked wood-elves in the north. It's a good setup for the danger that exists in Mirkwood - the cut to Dol Guldur and Azog shouldn't have happened until AFTER Beorn's warning, and more needs to happen in Mirkwood anyway (hopefully in the Extended cut) so his warnings are a little more foreshadowing of a bigger chunk of danger.
10. This fits fine with the books. "Crawling with" implies vague danger, and the goblins are furious after the escape from Goblin-town and the fire in the fir trees. A good reminder they're still out there, that would pay off better if our intimate scenes with Azog and Co. didn't happen until a bit later.
11. I just figured he would set it down. I like it's use for scale effect, though.
12. The dwarves were quiet for the "super serious discussion" yes - I totally expect a bit of noise out of them and some humor in the EE because it's essential to use them as goofs to play Beorn as a straightman/stoic figure, plus I want more Bofur singing.
The set itself, the blend of rustic cabin, celtic/nordic design, and "living in a barn", is gorgeous and at once feels otherworldly and ... well, rather like home for me. I live in a rural area, and grew up in and around farms. I can't imagine it smells great in his house but the food looks excellent. Moreover, Beorn looks like he belongs in that house.
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pettytyrant101
Menegroth
Jun 22 2014, 8:33pm
Post #6 of 22
(2307 views)
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1. What did you think of the transformation process? Were you expecting something more extreme?
The first thing about Beorn since his appearance I actually liked. It reminded me I was supposed to be watching a film based on a children's story. It was reminiscent of the old tv series The Storyteller with John Hurt for those who remember that.
2. What do you think Bilbo was thinking at this point? How about Beorn?
"How did he get in? Did someone unbar the door? With a potentially hostile giant bear/warg on the loose? Why? Or is that a back door? You mean he could have got in all along and no one noticed another door even though we've all been here half a day and an entire night? Hello? Continuity?"
3. What did you think of this shot? I think this is one of the most beautiful scenes in the movie. I would have liked the camera to be pulled back a bit so we could get more of a panorama of the view, and of course, for it to last longer.
Its very nice, a little bit slow mo and glowy for my tastes, looks a bit like an early 80's advertisement for shampoo, was half expecting it to pan to a young maiden washing her long shining blonde hair in a waterfall.
4. Why do you think they didn’t wake him up sooner? Kinda mean to make a Hobbit miss breakfast.
Maybe the sun was just up, after all they had been asleep in Beorns since at least midday the previous day when Gandalf told them to go to sleep, going on the continuity in this film.
5. Thorin and Balin are the only dwarves not seated at the table-why? It appears that Kili and Fili wouldn’t scootch over to make room for Uncle Thorin at the end of the table. And my assumption is that Balin gave up his seat for Bilbo. Or maybe he just wants to be on his feet when talking with an unknown-potentially-hostile being?
Because they were outside in a scene that was cut, and from which Beorn was returning when he came in the door, thus explaining the continuity issue with why the doors unlocked - thats my guess anyway.
6. What did you think of the interior of Beorn’s house now that we can see it in more detail? I love all the carvings in the wood posts. And I never noticed the horse behind Bilbo’s bed as the bees wake him up until just now!
Set design was of a high quality as it has been throughout the films.
But I feel the film was indoors far too much in the short time we were with Beorn.
In the book he is more associated with being outdoors, and his exposition could just have easily been given mainly in the gardens as inside.
7. What did you notice on the table? I like the bread and honey in front of Bilbo as a subtle call out to the book.
Yeah I like the bread and honey, but I did not pay much more attention beyond that I must confess.
8. What did you think of Beorn’s characterization now that we can see him up close?
I still dislike the physical appearance, in both his forms, but I dont mind the performance, just all the words the actor has to say!
9. What did you think of this news? Do you think Gandalf was surprised to hear about the alliance? A very subtle expression of concern flits across his face at the news.
As if a torrent of exposition about himself was not enough now he's also doing the exposition for the Necromancer story too! Does Beorn even have what can be called a personality in this scene?
He is like a conversation tree in a computer RPG-
-would you like to hear my back-story about my people?
-would you like me to tell you about the Necromancer and the orcs?
-would you like to borrow some of my horses?
There is nothing subtle about this scene.
10. What did you think of Beorn's comment? The music at this point becomes very ominous.
'Something based on something from the book?! Am I hearing things?!'
11. What did you think Beorn was going to do with the mouse?
Got to admit PJ, its hard to think of anything more dramatic than a very large man threatening to squeeze a mouse. As the climax to your dramatic build up its masterly (feel free to add your own levels of sarcasm to that, I opted for bucket loads myself).
12. Any overall comments on the staging of this scene? One thing that struck me was that none of the other dwarves spoke – they were oddly quiet compared to other dining scenes we’d seen up to this point. Do you think Beorn’s presence was intimidating?
Not intimidating its more likely no one says anything because most of the scenes are quite clearly not here. This seems to have meant that the one main scene which did survive and was presumably a pick up had to be crammed full of all the info from all the bits that did not survive. Turning the scene into an information dump as a result.
13. Any other thoughts on this scene, music, lighting etc?
As I mentioned I think it should have transitioned for the bulk of the conversation to the gardens, giving a visual break from the interior, offering more visual possibilities to mask the info dump better, and because Beorn should be seen in his gardens somewhere in the film and isn't.
Thanks for doing the questions Kim.
"A lot of our heroes depress me. But when they made this particular hero they didn't give him a gun, they gave him a screwdriver so he could fix things. They didn't give him a tank, or a warship, or an x-wing fighter, they gave him a call box from which you can call for help. And they didn't give him a superpower, or pointy ears or a heat ray, they gave him an extra heart. And that's an extraordinary thing.
There will never come a time when we don't need a hero like the Doctor."- Steven Moffat
(This post was edited by pettytyrant101 on Jun 22 2014, 8:42pm)
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Noria
Hithlum
Jun 22 2014, 9:34pm
Post #7 of 22
(2266 views)
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The scene starts with Beorn emerging from the woods and we see him change from his bear form to a man. If you look closely, you can see the manacle on his left arm.
1. What did you think of the transformation process? Were you expecting something more extreme?
- I really liked Beorn’s transformation scene, how it seemed natural rather than magical and not very easy on him besides. But he just picks himself up and keeps on going. I’d like to see the man to bear transformation.
We next see him enter his house, and Bilbo sees him.
2. What do you think Bilbo was thinking at this point? How about Beorn?
-I imagine that Bilbo was scared at first because Gandalf had given them to understand that he was dangerous. Beorn seemed unruffled. He must have already known he had house guests and that the front door was barred against him. Presumably he had ways of opening the back door.
We then switch to a view of the horses in the field the next morning.
3. What did you think of this shot? I think this is one of the most beautiful scenes in the movie. I would have liked the camera to be pulled back a bit so we could get more of a panorama of the view, and of course, for it to last longer.
I agree that this is a very lovely shot, a bit of a homage to Beorn’s beloved animal friends.
Next we see a couple of giant bees waking up Bilbo. He gets up and wanders over to the table where the dwarves and Gandalf are already gathered.
4. Why do you think they didn’t wake him up sooner? Kinda mean to make a Hobbit miss breakfast.
-Maybe they figured that Bilbo was old enough to get himself up and maybe if he hadn't been playing with the Ring during the night he wouldn't have overslept. Bilbo slept late in the book, IIRC. Beorn was still pouring mead, so I suppose breakfast was ongoing.
-But I was very happy to see the giant bees, just tossed in there without any comment like the ponies.
5. Thorin and Balin are the only dwarves not seated at the table-why? It appears that Kili and Fili wouldn’t scootch over to make room for Uncle Thorin at the end of the table. And my assumption is that Balin gave up his seat for Bilbo. Or maybe he just wants to be on his feet when talking with an unknown-potentially-hostile being?
-Well, it makes them more prominent in the scene, even though Balin says nothing that I recall. It certainly makes it easier to pick out Thorin when he speaks. Maybe Thorin and Balin ate first and left the table to let the others have a go.
6. What did you think of the interior of Beorn’s house now that we can see it in more detail? I love all the carvings in the wood posts. And I never noticed the horse behind Bilbo’s bed as the bees wake him up until just now!
-I love Beorn’s house and it’s one of my favourite sets, though it’s not grandiose or elegant. Like every other dwelling place in these movies, it really looks as if someone lives and works there. The details are wonderful – the crude stone hearth, the carving and ornamentation on every surface, the white mead, the stuff stored in the rafters.
7. What did you notice on the table? I like the bread and honey in front of Bilbo as a subtle call out to the book.
-I noticed the white mead being poured into the giant (for dwarves) wooden vessels and lots of great looking food. It was a bit creepy that there were mice on the table but it fits with Beorn.
Beorn starts to tell them about Azog and the history of his people.
8. What did you think of Beorn’s characterization now that we can see him up close?
-I like the way he looks, not quite human but attractive. I love his bear eyes and can easily believe that this guy is neither man nor animal. He is his own being, distinct from hobbits, elves, dwarves and men. IMO Persbrandt’s performance is excellent, with the character’s sorrow and stoicism evident but not overdone.
Beorn then comments that they need to reach the mountain before the last days of autumn and Gandalf says they must travel through Mirkwood. Beorn tells them that a darkness lies upon the forest, and that there is an alliance between the orcs of Moria and the necromancer in Dol Goldur.
9. What did you think of this news? Do you think Gandalf was surprised to hear about the alliance? A very subtle expression of concern flits across his face at the news.
-Gandalf seemed somewhat chagrined, but not really surprised. Maybe it draws together the threads of Azog’s pusuit and Radagast’s news about Dol Guldur in his mind.
Gandalf comments that they will take the Elven Road as it is still safe, and Beorn comments, “The Wood Elves of Mirkwood are not like their kin, they are less wise, and more dangerous, but it matters not.“ Thorin asks what he means.
Beorn replies that the lands are crawling with orcs and that they will never reach the forest alive.
10. What did you think of Beorn's comment? The music at this point becomes very ominous.
-Well, the comment makes the situation more dire, more dramatic, as PJ likes to do. The party needs Beorn’s help or they won’t even reach the forest.
Beorn then tells them that he doesn’t like dwarves and that they are blind to the lives of those they deem lesser than their own. He picks up the white mouse and the music gets even more ominous.
11. What did you think Beorn was going to do with the mouse?
-Nothing, because PJ wouldn’t have a sympathetic character hurt a cute little white mouse and because I know that book Beorn loves all animals.
Beorn makes his point about dwarves and then ask Thorin, “what do you need?” with a bit of a twinkle in his eye, which ends the scene.
12. Any overall comments on the staging of this scene? One thing that struck me was that none of the other dwarves spoke – they were oddly quiet compared to other dining scenes we’d seen up to this point. Do you think Beorn’s presence was intimidating?
- I don’t think that the dwarves would have pulled the stuff with Beorn that they did with Bilbo and the elves. He’s way out of their league in badassery. Dramatically, all that needed to happen did so between Beorn, Bilbo, Thorin and Gandalf. There was no real place for comedy.
-For all that a giant lives there the house is small, the home of one person, and though everything was made for his scale, it made Beorn seem even larger There is not a lot of room around the table and the place seems to have less living space for Beorn and more stable for his animals, which also says something about his priorities. It is all very clean as well.
13. Any other thoughts on this scene, music, lighting etc?
-I like Beorn’s sad theme and then the eerie music that begins as they speak of Mirkwood. Beorn’s face is great and that is partly the lighting.
- I really hope that there is more of Beorn in the EE, though I think the TE contains as much as we need to be getting on with. But I really feel that there is a missing scene just before breakfast.
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MouthofSauron
Dor-Lomin
Jun 23 2014, 1:17am
Post #8 of 22
(2232 views)
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i think the title of this chapter could have also been a...
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chapter in Brokeback Mountain.
The flames of war are upon you..
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Name
Nargothrond
Jun 23 2014, 2:02am
Post #9 of 22
(2209 views)
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How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
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cats16
Gondolin
Jun 23 2014, 5:20am
Post #10 of 22
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1. What did you think of the transformation process? Were you expecting something more extreme? I thought it was well done. I thought it would be done very OTT; thankfully, less is more, and I think here we could use our imaginations and guess as to what it may have looked like in full view in broad daylight.
2. What do you think Bilbo was thinking at this point? How about Beorn? 'WTF! Why does Gandalf always do this kind of thing to me, bringing us into *this* guy's house?!' Beorn seems to be somewhat content with the arrangement; this makes me wonder if there will in fact be a scene in the EE that is more of an introduction of the Company, similar to the book.
3. What did you think of this shot? I think this is one of the most beautiful scenes in the movie. I would have liked the camera to be pulled back a bit so we could get more of a panorama of the view, and of course, for it to last longer. Yes!! Agreed on both changes, Kim. Hoping we see it in the EE.
4. Why do you think they didn’t wake him up sooner? Kinda mean to make a Hobbit miss breakfast.
Hey, this part was in the book, lol! I hadn't thought of it before now.
5. Thorin and Balin are the only dwarves not seated at the table-why? It appears that Kili and Fili wouldn’t scootch over to make room for Uncle Thorin at the end of the table. And my assumption is that Balin gave up his seat for Bilbo. Or maybe he just wants to be on his feet when talking with an unknown-potentially-hostile being?
Perhaps he ate already? Maybe he and Gandalf spoke with Beorn earlier. Good question, though!
6. What did you think of the interior of Beorn’s house now that we can see it in more detail? I love all the carvings in the wood posts. And I never noticed the horse behind Bilbo’s bed as the bees wake him up until just now! I need to watch a frame-by-frame version. I miss so much of the details (and I need to change that). So much work was put into that set.
7. What did you notice on the table? I like the bread and honey in front of Bilbo as a subtle call out to the book. Mmm...lots of honey. 
8. What did you think of Beorn’s characterization now that we can see him up close? Not nearly as jarring as the blurry set photos made him look. I just wish we could have seen more of him.
I really like this shot, Beorn feels very “other” He looks very old, too. "Other" is a good way of putting it.
9. What did you think of this news? Do you think Gandalf was surprised to hear about the alliance? A very subtle expression of concern flits across his face at the news. He seems somewhat surprised. Perhaps he knew of an alliance, but just not to that extent. Things have changed since he was last here, and it's worse than what perhaps Radagast has reported.
10. What did you think of Beorn's comment? The music at this point becomes very ominous. Indeed! It's strange that the film gives zero danger while they're going there. Sort of a false danger we're never given. I wonder if there is a filmed scene with the Orcs near the forest before they enter?
11. What did you think Beorn was going to do with the mouse? Oh, I definitely thought he was going to eat it. No joke haha.
12. Any overall comments on the staging of this scene? One thing that struck me was that none of the other dwarves spoke – they were oddly quiet compared to other dining scenes we’d seen up to this point. Do you think Beorn’s presence was intimidating? This scene just felt unsatisfying to me. I think you're getting to part of the reason. It's so one-sided. I just feel like a lot is missing from this that would've helped things out a bit.
13. Any other thoughts on this scene, music, lighting etc? Give me more or give me...! Well, ok, I'll take what we've got. 
Thorin is not amused by Beorn, but his hair looks fabulous. Good to have the hair update. Sorry this took a little time to post – there were an awful lot of Thorin photos in this scene to choose from!
An understandable problem. Thanks, Kim!!
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MouthofSauron
Dor-Lomin
Jun 23 2014, 7:37am
Post #11 of 22
(2180 views)
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The flames of war are upon you..
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Kim
Doriath
Jun 24 2014, 2:45am
Post #12 of 22
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Thanks for the comments Retro315
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I'd forgotten that bit about Bilbo sleeping late was in the book. Totally agreed that I would have loved to see more of both the interior and exterior of Beorn's, and am really looking forward to those EE scenes (fingers crossed). And you can have that wedge of cheese, I'll take the bread and honey. 
"Jagatud rõõm on topelt rõõm - a shared joy is a double joy". ~Estonian saying
“As such, you will address His Majesty as His Majesty, the Lord of Silver Fountains, the King of Carven Stone, the King Beneath the Mountain, the Lion of Erebor, the High King of the Dwarves, the True Treasure of Erebor, the Face that Launched 10,000 Sighs, or Thorin the Majestic..."
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Kim
Doriath
Jun 24 2014, 2:56am
Post #13 of 22
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I always think of Basil Exposition if I notice a scene that's mostly, well, exposition. Usually brings a smile to my face. And glad to hear you liked they way the transformation process was handled.
"Jagatud rõõm on topelt rõõm - a shared joy is a double joy". ~Estonian saying
“As such, you will address His Majesty as His Majesty, the Lord of Silver Fountains, the King of Carven Stone, the King Beneath the Mountain, the Lion of Erebor, the High King of the Dwarves, the True Treasure of Erebor, the Face that Launched 10,000 Sighs, or Thorin the Majestic..."
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Kim
Doriath
Jun 24 2014, 3:05am
Post #14 of 22
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especially this:
-I like the way he looks, not quite human but attractive. I love his bear eyes and can easily believe that this guy is neither man nor animal. He is his own being, distinct from hobbits, elves, dwarves and men. IMO Persbrandt’s performance is excellent, with the character’s sorrow and stoicism evident but not overdone.
I'd never seen Mikael Persbrandt in anything else, so wasn't sure what to expect, but I too thought he did very well, I found Beorn very mesmerizing, and yes, his own distinct being.
"Jagatud rõõm on topelt rõõm - a shared joy is a double joy". ~Estonian saying
“As such, you will address His Majesty as His Majesty, the Lord of Silver Fountains, the King of Carven Stone, the King Beneath the Mountain, the Lion of Erebor, the High King of the Dwarves, the True Treasure of Erebor, the Face that Launched 10,000 Sighs, or Thorin the Majestic..."
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Kim
Doriath
Jun 24 2014, 3:22am
Post #15 of 22
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Seriously? You've read the book, right?
11. What did you think Beorn was going to do with the mouse? Oh, I definitely thought he was going to eat it. No joke haha.
'WTF! Why does Gandalf always do this kind of thing to me,
I know, right?
Perhaps he ate already? Maybe he and Gandalf spoke with Beorn earlier.
Yeah, I'm now thinking maybe Thorin and Balin were the first to be introduced to Beorn in the (potential) EE scene, so maybe they got some breakfast first.
This scene just felt unsatisfying to me. I think you're getting to part of the reason. It's so one-sided. I just feel like a lot is missing from this that would've helped things out a bit. Interesting. Even though there's a lot more we could have seen (and hopefully still will in the EE), I didn't find this unsatisfying, it's one of my favorites. I think part of that is because I found the first few scenes a little jarring, and this location felt more like what I was expecting. But I do see what you're saying, especially with the rest of the dwarves being so quiet.
Sorry this took a little time to post – there were an awful lot of Thorin photos in this scene to choose from!
An understandable problem. Thanks, Kim!!
Well, it was a tough job, but someone had to do it!
Thanks for the response Cats!
"Jagatud rõõm on topelt rõõm - a shared joy is a double joy". ~Estonian saying
“As such, you will address His Majesty as His Majesty, the Lord of Silver Fountains, the King of Carven Stone, the King Beneath the Mountain, the Lion of Erebor, the High King of the Dwarves, the True Treasure of Erebor, the Face that Launched 10,000 Sighs, or Thorin the Majestic..."
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Old Pilgrim
Ossiriand
Jun 24 2014, 5:31am
Post #16 of 22
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1. What did you think of the transformation process? Were you expecting something more extreme?
Everything regarding Beorn was made pretty quick in this movie, including this transformation which makes me believe that we will see him a lot more in EE and perhaps also in BOTFA. I do not mind that this particular scene is so short, because it was done well and Beorn still remained a mistery to us after the Company left him.
2. What do you think Bilbo was thinking at this point? How about Beorn?
Bilbo was definitely afraid of Beorn which isn't strange after they were beeing hunted by him and also Gandalf's warning. Beorn didn't show big interest for his guest in this scene which makes me believe that he knew all along that they are in his house and perhaps didn't want to interupt them or was too tired to do that. In any case this just confirms that Beorn in bear form wasn't hunting them for killing them, but for secure them in his own home.
3. What did you think of this shot? I think this is one of the most beautiful scenes in the movie. I would have liked the camera to be pulled back a bit so we could get more of a panorama of the view, and of course, for it to last longer.
I definitely agree with you, this is also one of the most beautiful scenes for me and I am always enjoying watching. I am a big fan of such scenes that includes wonderful nature and animals, so the more we get it, the better. Perhaps we will see more of Beorn's House and its surroundings in EE, which I am looking forward to it.
4. Why do you think they didn’t wake him up sooner? Kinda mean to make a Hobbit miss breakfast.
So that he wouldn't eat all and left nothing for them, knowing that he is a Hobbit?
I think they simply didn't want to bother him or perhaps Gandalf told them to let him sleep since they have still a long journey ahead of them and some additional sleep will be good for Bilbo. He was't sleeping all night as we saw in previous scenes so he was probably more tired then the rest of them.
5. Thorin and Balin are the only dwarves not seated at the table-why? It appears that Kili and Fili wouldn’t scootch over to make room for Uncle Thorin at the end of the table. And my assumption is that Balin gave up his seat for Bilbo. Or maybe he just wants to be on his feet when talking with an unknown-potentially-hostile being?
I have never thought about that, but now that you mentioned it, that's a really interesting question. Maybe Thorin has already eaten earlier and then removed from the table to give space to his nephews or maybe he wasn't hungry at all and decided to avoid the breakfast. The same could be said about Balin, but since he is so honourable Dwarf there may be a chance that he simply gave up his seat for Bilbo when the Hobbit joined them later.
6. What did you think of the interior of Beorn’s house now that we can see it in more detail? I love all the carvings in the wood posts. And I never noticed the horse behind Bilbo’s bed as the bees wake him up until just now!
A very nice place, I loved it from the beginning. Maybe it isn't as big as I imagined from the book and rooms are excatly the same, but still it is a very nice house and fits well for Beorn. Even I would live there, but first I would remove some animals like giant bees or mouses since I am not very fond of them.
7. What did you notice on the table? I like the bread and honey in front of Bilbo as a subtle call out to the book.
I didn't watch closely on the table but there is many good food on it. I did notice bread, cheese and some fruits however, so I am sure our Dwarves are enjoying more eating in this place then in Rivendell where they found just green food all around their dishes.
8. What did you think of Beorn’s characterization now that we can see him up close?
I wasn't very fond of his appearance when I first saw him, because I always imagined him as sort of Hagrid from Harry Potter. So when I first saw his appearance before DOS came out, I wasn't impressed with strange beard and eyebrowns but now I have to say that my opinion has changed. Again! Now I like Beorn because he is so unique and I think he was portrayed very well by his actor. When he is around you are unsure if he is a good or a bad guy and that's the right feeling because some Hagrid type wouldn't suite in this situation.
9. What did you think of this news? Do you think Gandalf was surprised to hear about the alliance? A very subtle expression of concern flits across his face at the news.
At this point Gandalf still didn't decide to leave the Company and goes on his own investigation, but the more bad news he received, the more he was thinking about that option in my opinion. He already heard of Dol Guldur and the blade from Radagast, then his concerns were confirmed by Galadriel and surely he suspected something isn't right with so much Orcs around, but now that Beorn confirmed that alliance he became even more concerned. I think that Gandalf's knowledge of Dol Guldur changed from zero in AUJ to very big in DOS.
10. What did you think of Beorn's comment? The music at this point becomes very ominous.
This confirms once again that something is not right and some evil force must be at work. Orcs were pursuing the Company all the way from the Weathertop, so I wasn't suprised when hearing that but the serious tone in Beorn's voice and this ominous music let me knew that things are even more dangerous at this side of the Misty Mountains.
11. What did you think Beorn was going to do with the mouse?
My first reaction was that he would squeeze her, so I felt very happy when he left her go without any harm done. I am very protective of most animals, despite my previous statement that I wouldn't live with them, so seeing them hurting even on the film would make me angry and unhappy.
12. Any overall comments on the staging of this scene? One thing that struck me was that none of the other dwarves spoke – they were oddly quiet compared to other dining scenes we’d seen up to this point. Do you think Beorn’s presence was intimidating?
I like such scenes more the most action filled scenes, because the dialogues can tell us so many and especially with some unrealistic fights around it is nice to have some more realistic moments like this conversation. I also like the peaceful feeling around Beorn's house, (with all those animals and beautiful landscape) so I would really like to see more of it in EE. The atmosphere during breakfast was intense, so I wasn't surprised that dwarves weren't talking, because after everything they went through after leaving Rivendell they were probably tired and also less lighthearted.
13. Any other thoughts on this scene, music, lighting etc?
Beorn's music is really nice and something unique comparing to other themes, so I like it.
Thorin’s hair: well, it just looks wonderful and freshly groomed after a good night’s sleep, doesn’t it?
Thorin is not amused by Beorn, but his hair looks fabulous.
I am glad you liked his hair and I did like this discussion! A very good job Kim
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BlackFox
Gondolin
Jun 24 2014, 8:02pm
Post #17 of 22
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I missed the last couple of CHOWs as I was busy wrapping up the school year, but I’m glad I got to return in time for a visit to Beorn’s. So, off we go!
1. What did you think of the transformation process? Were you expecting something more extreme?
I think it’s a well-executed, very realistic scene (well, at least as realistic as a scene featuring a bear turn into a man can be). The sense of realism is largely derived from the clever setting: it’s dark and we can only see Beorn’s outline change, which, I imagine, is a much easier scene to pull off than one featuring the same process of transformation in, let’s say, daylight where much more attention must be given to every single detail. Plus, it’s interesting how the bear stands on its hind legs before it turns into a human – a sign, I believe, that the transformation is a voluntary one (in comparison to an involuntary transformation as in the case of werewolves etc.). He knows what he’s doing and can transform whenever he wants to.
I’m happy they kept it subtle and didn't go for “something more extreme”, as you put it. As I stated above, I like the realism of this scene. I can’t recall exactly how I envisioned the transformation process when I read the book or before I stepped into the cinema, but I believe it was probably something close to what we got: a rather “traditional”, predictable solution.
(I wonder, is that stumbling and heavy breathing due to “bear-exhaustion” or is the transformation process itself wearying? A bit of both, I imagine.)
2. What do you think Bilbo was thinking at this point? How about Beorn?
Bilbo (to himself): “Lie still, lie v-e-e-e-e-e-ry still.” --- There’s definitely a mixture of fear, uncertainty and curiosity from Bilbo’s behalf. He knows there’s only one thing left to do: hope for the best, because they’re clearly in Beorn’s mercy now.
Beorn: “Dwarves… They better not make me regret my decision.” --- He remains calm, but I suspect he’s not overtly happy with the situation.
3. What did you think of this shot? I think this is one of the most beautiful scenes in the movie. I would have liked the camera to be pulled back a bit so we could get more of a panorama of the view, and of course, for it to last longer.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. It’s simply stunning. The wind flowing in the ponies’ manes, the elegance they throw back their heads with… But as Sam would say: “Oh, that doesn’t do them justice by a long road.”
4. Why do you think they didn’t wake him up sooner? Kinda mean to make a Hobbit miss breakfast.
Well, they either didn’t want to wake him from his sleep or, more likely, they were afraid what a hungry hobbit might do to their own bellies. ;) Overall, it’s a nice nod to the book.
5. Thorin and Balin are the only dwarves not seated at the table-why? It appears that Kili and Fili wouldn’t scootch over to make room for Uncle Thorin at the end of the table. And my assumption is that Balin gave up his seat for Bilbo. Or maybe he just wants to be on his feet when talking with an unknown-potentially-hostile being?
I certainly wouldn't rule that possibility out. You can never be too careful whilst on a quest like theirs and especially around beings such as Beorn. But another explanation has crossed my mind as well: maybe they chose to stand out of respect for their host who isn’t seated either, who, even more so, serves them. And by “out of respect” I mean “to do what is considered to be polite (especially for those of noble birth)”.
6. What did you think of the interior of Beorn’s house now that we can see it in more detail?
I very much like it. The attention to detail is simply amazing! I’ve seen the film a good ten times now, but I’m still picking up new things every time I watch this scene and I’m sure this is to continue in the future. Yes, the carvings are fantastic; they caught my eye right away. And the animals – how utterly calm they are! But my favourites got to be the huge bees and the beeswax candles. My father is a hobby beekeeper and I’ve had my fair share of dealings with bees (both good and bad) and I’ve rolled quite a few of beeswax candles myself. :)
7. What did you notice on the table? I like the bread and honey in front of Bilbo as a subtle call out to the book.
Yes, the honeycombs caught my attention immediately too, as well as those huge honey dippers (for reasons stated above). And you can hardly look past those big cups the dwarves are drinking out of.
8. What did you think of Beorn’s characterization now that we can see him up close?
I had my reservations when his design was first made public back in the day, but I’ve warmed up to it and, I must say, I’ve come to quite like it. I think it’s nice how he doesn’t look like a regular person when in his human form, that the fact he’s a skin-changer is evident in more than just his large stature.
9. What did you think of this news? Do you think Gandalf was surprised to hear about the alliance? A very subtle expression of concern flits across his face at the news.
I doubt it came as a total surprise to him. He’d probably feared it and now his fears had been confirmed. And that obviously makes him worry. This is also, I believe, when he first starts to think he may have to leave his friends and take up a different road.
10. What did you think of Beorn’s comment? The music at this point becomes very ominous.
Well, we know Gandalf has the tendency to exaggerate a bit in situations like this. Beorn, on the other hand, speaks how it really is, without trying to make things look better or worse than they really are. I do believe the situation is really as bleak as Beorn makes it sound; I don’t think the Company (with the exception of Gandalf) would have stood much change at reaching the forest alive without Beorn’s assistance. Their future was entirely dependent of whether or not Beorn was going to be willing to help them or not at that point.
11. What did you think Beorn was going to do with the mouse?
I didn’t worry the slightest. I knew there was no way he would squash the mouse. The Beorn we see in this scene is a classical “tender beast”; he knows the meaning of strength and power, but also the value and fragility of life and has great respect for it and compassion for those not as mighty as him; he is not blind to the lives others as he’s seen enough death and destruction to value that what is beautiful and pure.
12. Any overall comments on the staging of this scene? One thing that struck me was that none of the other dwarves spoke – they were oddly quiet compared to other dining scenes we’d seen up to this point. Do you think Beorn’s presence was intimidating?
Oh yes, indeed! Nice observation! Yes, I do believe Beorn’s intimidating presence is the main factor here, but not the only one. Let’s not forget the news he gives them – their outlook is rather bleak.
13. Any other thoughts on this scene, music, lighting etc?
I like the warm lighting of Beorn’s house. It nicely emphasizes the rustic, earthbound colours and textures present there. The music’s great as always – not too intrusive, yet noticeable.
My main concern is that this scene is far too short. But fortunately it seems safe to hope will see more of Beorn and his home in the EE.
*** Thank you for hosting, Kim! Great choice of screencaps and even better questions! :)
“Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake.” - Henry David Thoreau
(This post was edited by BlackFox on Jun 24 2014, 8:06pm)
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Kim
Doriath
Jun 26 2014, 2:08am
Post #18 of 22
(2043 views)
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12. Any overall comments on the staging of this scene? One thing that struck me was that none of the other dwarves spoke – they were oddly quiet compared to other dining scenes we’d seen up to this point. Do you think Beorn’s presence was intimidating?
I like such scenes more the most action filled scenes, because the dialogues can tell us so many and especially with some unrealistic fights around it is nice to have some more realistic moments like this conversation. I also like the peaceful feeling around Beorn's house, (with all those animals and beautiful landscape) so I would really like to see more of it in EE. The atmosphere during breakfast was intense, so I wasn't surprised that dwarves weren't talking, because after everything they went through after leaving Rivendell they were probably tired and also less lighthearted.
Totally agree with you here, I love this scene for it's slower, more deliberate pace. And good point about the reason for the other dwarves being quiet - after all they'd be through so far, they probably were feeling more of a weight on their shoulders, and realizing that this quest is getting more dangerous by the day.
"Jagatud rõõm on topelt rõõm - a shared joy is a double joy". ~Estonian saying
“As such, you will address His Majesty as His Majesty, the Lord of Silver Fountains, the King of Carven Stone, the King Beneath the Mountain, the Lion of Erebor, the High King of the Dwarves, the True Treasure of Erebor, the Face that Launched 10,000 Sighs, or Thorin the Majestic..."
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Kim
Doriath
Jun 26 2014, 2:19am
Post #19 of 22
(2047 views)
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1. What did you think of the transformation process? Were you expecting something more extreme?
I think it’s a well-executed, very realistic scene (well, at least as realistic as a scene featuring a bear turn into a man can be). The sense of realism is largely derived from the clever setting: it’s dark and we can only see Beorn’s outline change, which, I imagine, is a much easier scene to pull off than one featuring the same process of transformation in, let’s say, daylight where much more attention must be given to every single detail. Plus, it’s interesting how the bear stands on its hind legs before it turns into a human – a sign, I believe, that the transformation is a voluntary one (in comparison to an involuntary transformation as in the case of werewolves etc.). He knows what he’s doing and can transform whenever he wants to.
I’m happy they kept it subtle and didn't go for “something more extreme”, as you put it. As I stated above, I like the realism of this scene. I can’t recall exactly how I envisioned the transformation process when I read the book or before I stepped into the cinema, but I believe it was probably something close to what we got: a rather “traditional”, predictable solution.
(I wonder, is that stumbling and heavy breathing due to “bear-exhaustion” or is the transformation process itself wearying? A bit of both, I imagine.) Yes, I would agree with you here, and I too thought of the transformation as a voluntary process, although possibly tough on him physically - I wonder if it's actually painful? I liked how it was underplayed, especially since we'd already seen him in full bear mode.
But another explanation has crossed my mind as well: maybe they chose to stand out of respect for their host who isn’t seated either, who, even more so, serves them. And by “out of respect” I mean “to do what is considered to be polite (especially for those of noble birth)”. Interesting, I hadn't thought of this explanation, but it does seem like a plausible option.
And you can hardly look past those big cups the dwarves are drinking out of. I know, right? They all look so adorable, like kids drinking their milk.
Thanks BlackFox!
"Jagatud rõõm on topelt rõõm - a shared joy is a double joy". ~Estonian saying
“As such, you will address His Majesty as His Majesty, the Lord of Silver Fountains, the King of Carven Stone, the King Beneath the Mountain, the Lion of Erebor, the High King of the Dwarves, the True Treasure of Erebor, the Face that Launched 10,000 Sighs, or Thorin the Majestic..."
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Jun 26 2014, 12:38pm
Post #20 of 22
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Always thought Beorn an interesting character
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I'll try to do a proper one, my first evah
1) It was a bit American Werewolf, as in it seemed like the transformation wasn't an easy thing to go through but that's all right with me, I like the notion of the transmutation principle of Equal Exchange, as expounded in the anime Full Metal Alchemist, and it's more organic and persuasive to see effort in the transformation but not so much that it seems Beorn's birthing a litter of kittens every time (which would probably put anyone off the process).
2) Seems like an unwritten rule anyone in his home was a guest, so it seemed like grudging acceptance on Beorn's part. As for Bilbo, he was probably going "i'm not here!"
3) Agreed.
4) HAHA, true to dwarven nature to look to their own first, I wager.
5) I'd think Thorin didn't quite trust Beorn and wanted to be ready to spring into action for whatever. Balin probably wanted to be in position to broker peace, just in case.
6) I like it, the decor theme's ery true to Beorn's sense of being? Seemd a bit , hmmm, I don't know, Rohan too. Wonder if there's any influence from the south.
7) Beorn's into clean living! I like the meatlessness of his menu, especially after the turf and turf + BEER of Dwarven staples.
8) To be honest, he seemed feral enough, but not quite so grizzly as a bear-shaped skin-changer. He seemed more feline than ursine in human form.
9) Gandalf probably made a mental note to call his travel agent to bring his southbound itinerary forward.
10) I am actually surprised at how unconcerned Thorin seemed to be going towards the Woodland Realm and using the Elf-path given what we saw happened between him and Thranduil in the Halls. In fact he seemed too detached from the idea at this point. But back to Beorn's comment, I though the mood and the music were great
11) It felt like for a moment he was going to crush it or unleash it to become a mini bear attacking the nearest dwarf.
12) Overall a scene that portrayed Beorn nicely. I did not like the comment he was the lone survivor though, unless it was in reference to his personal family, not his kind - Beornings have a role to play beyond TH after all. Re Thorin's fabulously bed-head free hair - Dwarves obviously pack combs and hair-care accompaniments judiously.
Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
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Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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Kim
Doriath
Jun 27 2014, 2:07am
Post #21 of 22
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9) Gandalf probably made a mental note to call his travel agent to bring his southbound itinerary forward.
Ah yes, I see that now.
Thanks for participating, glad you decided to join us. Hope we see you around here again (we know your favorite chapter is coming up soon!)
"Jagatud rõõm on topelt rõõm - a shared joy is a double joy". ~Estonian saying
“As such, you will address His Majesty as His Majesty, the Lord of Silver Fountains, the King of Carven Stone, the King Beneath the Mountain, the Lion of Erebor, the High King of the Dwarves, the True Treasure of Erebor, the Face that Launched 10,000 Sighs, or Thorin the Majestic..."
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