"Poor Bilbo sat in the dark thinking of all the horrible names of all the giants and ogres he had ever heard told of in tales, but not one of them had done all these things." -- The Hobbit, "Riddles in the Dark"

He [Morgoth] had become absorbed in 'kingship', and though a tyrant of ogre-size and monstrous power, this was a vast fall from even his former wickedness of hate, and his terrible nihilism.

Ogres = corrupted Maiar's offspring?

At least that's the conclusion I drew from reading all the various texts. Probably, if corrupted Maiar were used by Melkor to breed orcs and trolls, then tales of giant orcs and trolls that occasionally appear in the HoME series of texts, are probably their offspring.

Okay. The dilemma has been pretty well stated by Prim and Sassy.

On the one hand, like Prim I believe that it is absolutely imperative that the Orcs do not have redeemable souls. I believe the whole moral structure of LOTR and indeed all of Tolkien's work collapses like a house of cards if they did.

On the other hand, as Sassy demonstrates, the only possible conclusion that one can reach from the full body of Tolkien's work is that the Orcs came from beings that did have souls (fëa), possibly men but also undoubtedly including Elves corrupted and twisted by Melkor (and even possibly some Maian spirits, which she doesn't mention).

How then can these two seemingly contradictory points be reconciled? The answer comes from a surprising source.

But before I go there I wanted to make another point. There is some precedent in Tolkien's writing for the idea expressed in Myth's Transformed that despite having speech and even cleverness the Orcs possessed no 'rational soul' or fëa. In the chapter "Of the Coming of the Elves" in the Later Quenta Silmarillion (published in Morgoth's Ring) (in what appears in the second paragraph of chapter three of the published Sil) in talking about the Balrogs the word "(ëalar)" appeared after "These were the" and before the word "spirits" with a footnote explaining that this word did not refer to an incarnate spirit, which was "fëa" and that it simply referred to "being". Thus the Balrogs themselves, as powerful as they were, and even being the first ancient spirits that allied themselves with Morgoth, were seen as merely having "being" and NOT having incarnate souls. I believe the explanation that I point to below must apply to them as well.

Okay, turning back to the paradox described above. How do I explain how the Orcs could not have incarnate souls when they were derived from beings that did have incarnate souls. I find the answer in, of all places, the Athrabeth. As I have discussed before, one of the key concepts discussed in the commentary and notes that follow the Athrabeth is the idea that "the separation of fëa and hröa is 'unnatural', and proceeds not from the original design but from the 'Marring of Arda', which is due to the operations of Melkor." It is from this concept that I derive my answer to the dilemma.

The Orcs originated from the hröar of originally incarnate beings (whether Elves or Men or both, and even as I believe Tolkien suggests at one point in Myths Transformed from some Maian spirits as well) that Melkor managed to separate from their fëar. Like the Balrogs these corrupted beings had "ëalar" or "being" but not "fëar" or souls. They had no wills of their own, but rather were animated by Melkor's own will, and later by Sauron's as Melkor's proxy. They were similar in that way to the beings created by Aulë before Eru took pity on him and them and gave them their own independent wills.

This would even explain why, as Prim, pointed out, the Orcs "magically" died when Sauron was destroyed; with no will of their own there was nothing to animate them once Melkor's proxy was destroyed.

As for Sassy's final quote, I don't see anything there that is an obstacle to this explanation. If these former Elves were mated with Men, it must have been Men who similarly had been stripped of their fëar (and beasts never had fëar in the first place). As for them going to Mandos and held in prison until the End when they died, that sounds like a reasonable precaution to prevent Melkor from re-animating them and causing even more mischief.

As for Saruman breeding Men and Orcs, I don't believe it for a second, and I don't believe that anywhere does it categorically say that he did so; it is only speculation. No, those "half-Orcs" were simply Orcs that Saruman through his dark arts was able to make appear more man-like but still had no fëar of their own.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. ;)
Voronwë the Faithful post in this conversation https://thehalloffire.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=379&start=20

...the kind of evil which Sauron embodies, the lust for domination, will always be irrationally cruel, for such a lust is not satisfied unless others not only obey but obey against their will.
Auden, W. H. (1967) "Good and Evil in The Lord of the Rings," Tolkien Journal: Vol. 3: Iss. 1, Article 1.

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He does not need you – he has many more useful servants – but he won’t forget you again. And hobbits as miserable slaves would please him far more than hobbits happy and free. There is such a thing as malice and revenge.’

One reason among many was that (aside from a facsimile of free will rather than the real thing being maybe the most that Melkor could do), it fits nicely with WH Auden's observation:

Quote

Which sounds right, and leads me to think that Sauron might be very happy with (or even prefer) orcs who could wish for freedom but never actually have it to mere 'dumb beasts'.

At least that's the conclusion I drew from reading all the various texts. Probably, if corrupted Maiar were used by Melkor to breed orcs and trolls, then tales of giant orcs and trolls that occasionally appear in the HoME series of texts, are probably their offspring.

Eldar did not confound ordinary “breath” of the lungs with “spirit”. The particular spirit indwelling in a body they called fëa [*fáya;]; spirit in general as a kind of being they called fairë. These terms were chiefly applied to the spirits or “souls” of Elves (and Men); since though these were held to be of a similar sort to those of the máyar (and Valar), they were not identical in nature: it was part of the nature of a fëa to desire to dwell in a body (hrondo), and by that mediary or instrument to operate upon the physical world; and the fëa did not and could not make its own body, according to its desire, or conception of itself, but could only modify its given or appointed hrondo by indwelling (as a living person may modify a house, filling it with a sense of his own personality, even if no visible physical alterations are made in its shape).

But the Eldar held that “spirits”, the more as they had more native inherent power, could emit their influence to make contact with or act upon things exterior to themselves: primarily upon other spirits, or other incarnate persons (via their fëar), but also in the case of great spirits (such as the Valar or greater máyar) directly upon physical things without the mediacy of bodies normally necessary in the case of “fairondi” or incarnates.

Ogres were used by J.R.R. Tolkien in early drafts of the legendarium as a name for one of the monsters bred by Melkor along with Gongs and the other Úvanimor
[reference cites Book Of Lost Tales]

Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert.
Bilbo Baggins speaking, in The Hobbit, Ch1: An Unexpected Party

In reverence Yavanna is next to Varda among the Queens of the Valar. In the form of a woman she is tall, and robed in green; but at times she takes other shapes. Some there are who have seen her standing like a tree under heaven, crowned with the Sun; and from all its branches there spilled a golden dew upon the barren earth, and it grew green with corn; but the roots of the tree were in the waters of Ulmo, and the winds of Manwë spoke in its leaves.

But of Olórin that tale does not speak; for though he loved the Elves, he walked among them unseen, or in form as one of them, and they did not know whence came the fair visions or the promptings of wisdom that he put into their hearts.