|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
boldog
Nargothrond
Apr 12 2013, 10:18pm
Post #1 of 64
(18843 views)
Shortcut
|
|
the wife of azog
|
Can't Post
|
|
okay, i have mentioned this in a previouss post not long ago, but i want to have a discussion on the family life of azog.
bolg is in the film, and he is his son, so surely there has to be at least one scene of them interacting. i wonder how though? with love, hate, anger? who knows?
also could Jackson really go as far in explaining azogs story, and show his "wife" the mother of bolg.? she is not mentioned at all in tolkien lore, but there obviously is a wife, because azog is a dad.
what are your thoughts on this....?
p.s sometimes it has occured to me, that perhaps bolgs mother could be the warg azog rides..... weird, i know, but it could explain all the hair on bolg, and his "wolf like" appearence.
"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Doriath
Apr 12 2013, 10:32pm
Post #2 of 64
(17392 views)
Shortcut
|
I, for one, would not welcome explanations of Orc family life (or romances), or the family life of any of the other races for that matter. That would just be too much for me.
I just want them to get on with the story of Bilbo, Thorin, Gandalf, the Dwarves and all the other key characters that belong in Tolkien's Hobbit.
|
|
|
boldog
Nargothrond
Apr 12 2013, 10:46pm
Post #3 of 64
(17201 views)
Shortcut
|
.......but bolg is also a key character from the book....
"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"
|
|
|
jimmyfenn
Nargothrond
Apr 12 2013, 11:17pm
Post #4 of 64
(17205 views)
Shortcut
|
orcs produce eggs that they fertilize themselves.
orcs are neither male or female just orc
orcs are not real!
"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro
|
|
|
Ardamírë
Doriath
Apr 12 2013, 11:56pm
Post #5 of 64
(17184 views)
Shortcut
|
I've never really thought about orcs as having family units and such. I know The Silmarillion states that they come from corrupted Elves, but I see them (at least in their orc state) as more like animals. No family structure. Also, please no bestiality. That is certainly not something from Tolkien.
"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen
|
|
|
Maciliel
Doriath
Apr 13 2013, 12:09am
Post #6 of 64
(17173 views)
Shortcut
|
actually (not sure if you're joshing or not), tolkien stated (i believe it was in the silmarilion) that orcs breed in the manner of elves and the edain.
so, there would have to be female orcs... but not necessarily wives.
i don't know that i've ever seen an orc in real life, walking down the street, but i sure have seen lots of orc-ish behavior.
cheers --
.
aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."
this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel
|
|
|
Salmacis81
Dor-Lomin
Apr 13 2013, 12:15am
Post #7 of 64
(17124 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Why does he have to have a wife just because he has a son?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
There's plenty of unmarried guys with kids. I'm thinking Azog would probably be one of those types of guys...
|
|
|
Lio
Menegroth
Apr 13 2013, 12:20am
Post #8 of 64
(17399 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Azog and Mrs Azog and their son Bolg! :D
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Although it would be very interesting, I'm not sure if they'd introduce an additional plot point involving Azog's wife. The movies have a lot of characters as it is and I think this might complicate things too much. On the other hand, I'd love to see a cameo appearance of sorts. Like, say, Azog giving an evil inspirational speech to his army before the Bo5A with his wife present somewhere in the scene but not really featured in it. (Sort of how we had all these extra Elves in Rivendell who are fairly noticeable but don't really play a major role. Remember Lindir/"Figwit"?)
I do wonder how the relationship between Azog and Bolg will play out as well. Will they put any emphasis on it, or will it be more subtle like the relationship between Thorin and Fili/Kili has been so far? (That is, it's clear there's a strong bond between them but it hasn't been explicitly stated yet that they are his nephews.)
Or maybe there can be some Orc-style father/son bonding between Azog and Bolg! Perhaps they can have a little competition about who can slay the most Dwarves:
BOLG (dumps a sack full of Dwarf heads on a table): Look, dad! I got 36!
AZOG (empties out a sack of his own): That's lovely my son, but my total stands at 37.
BOLG: No way! I demand a recount!
AZOG: 1... 2... 3... . . . 35... 36... 37.
BOLG: Wait a minute! That one's mine.
AZOG: That's the head of the Dwarf king. I killed him myself and it's mine!
BOLG: I don't see your name on it!
(Azog brands his name on Thror's head.)
BOLG: But it still only counts as one!
MRS AZOG: What kind of idiotic nonsense are you two arguing about this time?
BOLG: Nothing!
AZOG: Nothing!
MRS AZOG: And what have I told you about severed heads on the dinner table?
BOLG: Sorry!
AZOG: Sorry!
Orcs are mammals!
Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!
|
|
|
Seaber
Ossiriand
Apr 13 2013, 12:22am
Post #9 of 64
(17021 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I hope to see some scenes between the two
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
But I'd hate to see any mothering or young orcs. They don't seem to fit with what PJ has made the series.
|
|
|
MouthofSauron
Dor-Lomin
Apr 13 2013, 12:59am
Post #10 of 64
(17020 views)
Shortcut
|
|
please don't give people ideas
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
the last thing any of us need to see is a love scene between Azog and his female orc lover.
take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!
|
|
|
Ziggy Stardust
Mithlond
Apr 13 2013, 1:12am
Post #11 of 64
(17081 views)
Shortcut
|
And while orcs belong in mythology, I have seen some orcish behavior. 
|
|
|
QuackingTroll
Doriath
Apr 13 2013, 1:25am
Post #12 of 64
(17116 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I hope it's okay for me to say this...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
But I think orcs are more inclined to rape than make love.
It's a thought that came to me when watching the pillaging scene in The Two Towers. It made me think of how the Vikings (among many other armies) used to pillage and rape towns, and it made me wonder whether this is how the orc-men or goblin men were made?
|
|
|
Macfeast
Nargothrond
Apr 13 2013, 1:26am
Post #13 of 64
(17000 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I wouldn't want them to go into great detail.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Some sort of casual reference to Bolg as "the spawn of Azog", perhaps some interaction between the two (if they ever get a chance to interact), would work for me, I don't think anything more is needed.
(This post was edited by Macfeast on Apr 13 2013, 1:29am)
|
|
|
jimmyfenn
Nargothrond
Apr 13 2013, 2:06am
Post #14 of 64
(17016 views)
Shortcut
|
But I think orcs are more inclined to rape than make love.
It's a thought that came to me when watching the pillaging scene in The Two Towers. It made me think of how the Vikings (among many other armies) used to pillage and rape towns, and it made me wonder whether this is how the orc-men or goblin men were made?
i know some of us get immersed in these stories but when it comes to thinking how orcs rape and produce offspring, i think we need to take a deep breath.
this thread has wierded me out.
"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro
|
|
|
Alassëa Eruvande
Doriath
Apr 13 2013, 2:17am
Post #15 of 64
(16961 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I can't wait to see *that* Christmas card! //
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I am SMAUG! I kill when I wish! I am strong, strong, STRONG!
My armor is like tenfold shields! My teeth like swords! My claws, spears!
The shock of my tail, a thunderbolt! My wings, a hurricane! And my breath, death!
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Apr 13 2013, 4:58am
Post #17 of 64
(17099 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Wrong. Orcs produce after the manner of Elves and men
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
with mammalian sex. Period. And I will not be told what is realy by anyone who is not demonstrably omniscient. orcs produce eggs that they fertilize themselves.
orcs are neither male or female just orc
orcs are not real!
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Apr 13 2013, 5:03am
Post #18 of 64
(16953 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I am inclined to agree. What seems entirely likely, especially considering the film interpretations, is
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
that Azog probably did "went forth to pillage, rapine and plunder." And considering the hair of Bolg, if it is his hair and beard, his mother may well have been an unhappy human. This seems hardly far fetched considering his penchant for throwing recently detatched skulls. If we are to be entirely candid, what he does to Thror and displays to Thorin would be more devestating for most even than being abducted and. . . mishandled in vulgar fashion by an orc.
The tie in movie books suggest that the shrunken skulls on THe Great Goblin's totem are likely those of his unpleasant wives. There's plenty of unmarried guys with kids. I'm thinking Azog would probably be one of those types of guys...
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
|
|
|
emre43
Nargothrond
Apr 13 2013, 6:09am
Post #19 of 64
(16926 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I also think this. If, as somebody else has said, they are more animal-like than human like, then perhaps they would???
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
|
|
|
MouthofSauron
Dor-Lomin
Apr 13 2013, 6:16am
Post #20 of 64
(16906 views)
Shortcut
|
an unhappy woman? so your saying Bolg is half orc half human?
take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!
|
|
|
Angharad73
Nargothrond
Apr 13 2013, 7:40am
Post #21 of 64
(16965 views)
Shortcut
|
...Thorin - and we never hear about his mother either, do we? So we can skip over the details of Azog and Bolg's family life, too.
|
|
|
Ereinion Nénharma
Menegroth
Apr 13 2013, 2:12pm
Post #22 of 64
(16872 views)
Shortcut
|
...to suggest or believe (non-human) animals have no family life or bonds. That is absolutely untrue, just think about wolves, elephants and dolphins for example.
''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Doriath
Apr 13 2013, 3:51pm
Post #23 of 64
(16826 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I don't think anyone is suggesting that
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
It's just something that does not belong in this film, and I, for one, do not want to see any mushy 'family' scenes in the Middle-Earth films.
A majority of higher animal forms apart from humans have family lives and bonds, including mammals other than human, birds and even some reptiles. Amoebas probably don't.
In reply to:
'You seem to suggest or believe (non-human) animals have no family life or bonds. That is absolutely untrue, just think about wolves, elephants and dolphins for example.'
|
|
|
QuackingTroll
Doriath
Apr 13 2013, 4:22pm
Post #24 of 64
(16819 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I don't think it's mushy, I think it's about power
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Azog is a dominant orc, the leader of the Gundabad orcs. So Bolg is probably heir to that power. I don't think, when Azog dies, Bolg has much emotional interest in getting revenge. I think he's more interested in asserting his new-acquired power as the leader.  Of course, the best way to demonstrate his power is by taking revenge, so that's what he does.
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 13 2013, 4:25pm)
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Doriath
Apr 13 2013, 4:44pm
Post #25 of 64
(16798 views)
Shortcut
|
I meant that I would just prefer not to see family life, romances and so on, in the sense that I do not want to see 'girlfriends', 'wives' or 'children', etc, in fact for any of the races (including Orcs), since that, for me, is not something Tolkien delved into in The Hobbit, thank goodness. It would change the overall character of the tale too much for me to see such things in these films. They belong in Hollywood blockbusters and the like, not in Tolkien's world.
The relationship between Azog and Bolg is quite different. I'd imagine that there would be no love lost between Orcs and that they would always be struggling with each other for power, rather than viewing each other with any sort of affection or loyalty. It's best to see them as totally evil beings, which is how Tolkien intended them to be seen.
Azog is a dominant orc, the leader of the Gundabad orcs. So Bolg is probably heir to that power. I don't think, when Azog dies, Bolg has much emotional interest in getting revenge. I think he's more interested in asserting his new-acquired power as the leader. Of course, the best way to demonstrate his power is by taking revenge, so that's what he does. |
|
|
|
|
1
