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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Aug 13 2014, 12:10pm
Post #76 of 222
(6072 views)
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Now I fear that portent of Avandel about spoilery leaks to come from these innocuous sources //
[In reply to]
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I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
 Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)
 Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback by Kerewyn(new, posted 10 August), Four
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
 Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Aug 13 2014, 12:15pm
Post #77 of 222
(6018 views)
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that while Elves also have braids, the Elvenking is the only Elf, regardless of LotR or TH, who has no nonsense done to his hair, regardless of what headgear he's got or none.
Thranduil has no braids, Thranduil needs no braids.  
I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback by Kerewyn(new, posted 10 August), Four
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Aug 13 2014, 12:17pm)
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Aug 13 2014, 12:34pm
Post #78 of 222
(6032 views)
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Sez in one of the WETA books that the Mirkwood elves - at least according to John Howe I think so maybe this was the "Art of DOS" book, not C & D - sez the Mirkwood elves never go to the Havens, but withdraw like the Tuatha De Danaan into the forests. That's correct. But remember, Mirkwood Elves are Silvan Elves. They're part of the Elf-clan who rejected the call to go to Valinor, so they are doomed to fade in ME. Thranduil, however, is a Sindarin prince, and Sindars missed that cruise-trip only because of Thingol's misguided priorities. Can't remember the right of it, but Sindars should be able to choose to go on that trip rather than fade in ME. Legolas took the trip with Gimli in FA so I don't see why Thranduil can't.
However, book-verse doesn't say Thranduil actually does or not. I do think he does, ultimately, after all his Woodland Realm subjects have faded or to a point where there's no need for an Elvenking in the Wood. And I think so because (apologies: this following bit is just based on memory since I can't afford too big a distraction away from *cough*writing now) after Sauron's attacks on Mirkwood and Lothlorien during the War of the Ring were successfully repealed, Thranduil met with Celeborn in Mirkwood, carved up the forest as it was, with the south and middle ceded to become South Lothlorien and a realm for Men respectively. Only the northern part he retained was what he renamed Eryn Lasgalen. I can't see Thranduil being willing to cede anything if he intended to stay on in ME until the very end. Obviously the attacks decimated the Elves' numbers as well, and so he prudently retained only what he could comfortably rule and control. Plus, with all his known family members either dead or sailed West, I believe he would want to reunite with them ultimately. So, however long is needed to keep the realm of Eryn Lasgalen going for his Silvan subjects, Thranduil is there, and then he also bid his final goodbye to ME. 
LOL... I agree about FA though. And I think you're missing an "s" in "king" in your world there
I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback by Kerewyn(new, posted 10 August), Four
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Aug 13 2014, 12:35pm)
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Aug 13 2014, 12:38pm
Post #79 of 222
(6010 views)
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And here's the source URL
It is one heck of a fanart
haha re the char<>animals images, the one of Leggy is meorw! 
I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback by Kerewyn(new, posted 10 August), Four
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Aug 13 2014, 12:39pm
Post #80 of 222
(6005 views)
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Like in those ELVEN CELLS (clicky)  .
I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback by Kerewyn(new, posted 10 August), Four
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Aug 13 2014, 12:42pm
Post #81 of 222
(6006 views)
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You're so kind, Kim, to help through your be-spored brain...
[In reply to]
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following that disagreeable directionally-challenged Dwarf off the path, and a faulty keyboard.
Of course you really meant it to read:
That is a looker! Not bad at all, for that most grubby of disagreeably majestically scruffiness hot-tempered Dwarvenness
I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback by Kerewyn(new, posted 10 August), Four
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Aug 13 2014, 12:46pm
Post #82 of 222
(6133 views)
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Clearly your love of the trippy weed and spore combo
[In reply to]
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you've been inhaling thanks to that directionally-challenged Dwarf off the path has addled your judgment
But the Dwarven quarters in the Woodland Realm remain open and there's room to spare, so help yourself.
I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback by Kerewyn(new, posted 10 August), Four
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Aug 13 2014, 12:47pm
Post #83 of 222
(6084 views)
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I have totally forgotten the bits about Erebor.
I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback by Kerewyn(new, posted 10 August), Four
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Aug 13 2014, 12:52pm
Post #84 of 222
(5997 views)
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It's a pleasure though sometimes I wonder at the size of the silent thread visitors. Cos it's always nice to have more Thranduil's Thralls chatting. So hope to see you posting more often.
As it is now, please excuse the outrageous overload of disagreeable Dwarve images. I've been trying to play catch-up with my online time, and hope to add Thranduil!Pretty soon-ish. But I just got to get my part of the Thrall Wars out (been a long while since Avandel posted the hilarious current bit, even though it's too much focused on Dwarf) or I'll have no peace from the inner-gollum
I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback by Kerewyn(new, posted 10 August), Four
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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Eruvandi
Dor-Lomin
Aug 13 2014, 6:54pm
Post #86 of 222
(5967 views)
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I hadn't thought about it before, but you're right. Thranduil is the only LOTR or TH elf that I can think of who does absolutely nothing to his hair. No braids, no tie-backs, nothing. I am going through every elf I can think of and even the background elves do something.
Thranduil has no braids, Thranduil needs no braids. Indeed.
Speaking of hair, I was just thinking how, of all the characters who appear in both LOTR and TH, IMO, Elrond is the only one who got a hair makeover, isn't he? Gandalf, Galadriel, Saruman, Legolas, and even Bilbo all have basically the same hair styles as they did in LOTR, but Elrond's hair actually got toned down a bit.
In LOTR, his hair changed just about every time we saw him, and it was usually done in a fairly complex style. In fact, in the appendices of ROTK, they said at one point that his hair almost got too complex at one point. They actually had this ridiculous looking hairstyle for him for the Aragorn/Arwen reuniting scene where his hair was in these rings all over his head. And I don't mean rings like a girl might have ringlets or curls in her hair. Oh no, I mean his hair was shaped into large, circular, sticking out from the sides and top of his head, reminds you of onion rings, RINGS. I don't remember if they said why in Middle-earth they had even considered that style, but thankfully they changed it to what ended up in the movie.
Pardon my rambling. My point is, in TH, Elrond's hair is much simpler. It's still pulled back and the side thingies are braided but there aren't all the loops and curls and *shudder* rings, like in LOTR. IMO, simpler is better because it compliments Hugo Weaving's face better.
Honestly, I've wondered what was up with all of Elrond's hair changes in LOTR, anyway. Was it the equivalent of an elven mid-life crisis? Maybe Thranduil could have given him a lesson or two in aging and styling one's hair gracefully.
That reminds me...
Bonus question: Who is older, Thranduil or Elrond? They were both in TA, but that's about all I know.
"Love woke me up this morning
With a memory
Love came and whispered a story
That awakened a dream,
I am a dreamer, take me higher
Open the sky up, start a fire
I believe even if it's just a dream"
~"Dreamer" by Bethany Dillon
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Avandel
Gondolin
Aug 13 2014, 7:45pm
Post #87 of 222
(5959 views)
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Perhaps I should look further into this famed gently-rippling mane that I so far have given merely a passing glance to.
A passing glance? LOL for me of course, that cannot compute, tho I can understand, of course, the attraction of silken straight hair as soft as cirrus clouds painting the sky.
But my heart is lost to the evening...so give me a swirling lush nightfall shot with stars.
Ah, yes, Thorin's braids. Evidently commented on in various fan-fics, memes, and other assorted too-much-sharing , e.g., graphic descriptions of what said shameless person would like to do to Thorin once they get hold of the braids *cough*. (NO, I didn't READ the "stuff" , I just trip over things looking for images - it's eye-brow raising what gets put into cyber-space.)
Anyways, what I find *cough* intriguing is the loose clipping of hair with the beads in back - sigh. There's just something about that loose binding of errant swirling coffee-toned locks that has me....well, never mind *cough*. Ahem. But sometimes I think Peter King & co. are just evil *grins* w. their hair creations. (Not that Thorin NEEDS hair embellishment. But for me there's something about those few beads *grins*. Or even the twine that replaces the beads in DOS once they are lost to the river . *Grins* we never get to see the dwarves primping!)
"If this is to end in fire, then we will all burn together" - Thorin, The Desolation of Smaug.
Thorinitis: Just that smokey barbecue sizzle on a bed of hot embers on a chill autumn night voice making you do things.
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Eruvandi
Dor-Lomin
Aug 13 2014, 8:31pm
Post #89 of 222
(5986 views)
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*cough* Oh, it got well past the idea stage
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ROFLOL!!! Guess anything goes during these "idea sessions" but while having an onion ring 'do would have been MEMORABLE think that kind of over-the-top stuff needs to be left to Star Wars, where anything goes. Yes, they actually made the wig, put it on Hugo Weaving's head and FILMED IT. Seriously, they show the footage of him wearing it in the appendices. Oh...my...goodness. I truly can't believe they let it get that far. If I was the costume designer, I would have laughed that thing off the sound stage! 
I've tried desperately to find a pic or find the video on Youtube, but alas, my search has been in vain as I don't remember what the title of that section of the appendices was.
"Love woke me up this morning
With a memory
Love came and whispered a story
That awakened a dream,
I am a dreamer, take me higher
Open the sky up, start a fire
I believe even if it's just a dream"
~"Dreamer" by Bethany Dillon
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Avandel
Gondolin
Aug 13 2014, 9:25pm
Post #90 of 222
(5943 views)
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It's just stuck in my head, after thinking about it, and the fact that those gems have obviously been on Thranduil's mind for a while, that however Thranduil gets involved in the fray, and why he ISN'T with Legolas w. the Laketown refugees, that the bold and fearless Thranduil would be among the first to be thinking to get to Erebor, believing the dwarves are dead, and wanting to be the first one there BECAUSE HE WANTS HIS GEMS BACK. Plus, he's familiar with Erebor, w. a long relationship with these dwarves I am gonna guess Thranduil knows the layout, pretty much, from state dinners and whatnot.
So Thranduil is going to Erebor by the main road, the way he always has through Dale - or maybe, perhaps, there is a hint that a few dwarves survived, possibly, from Bard or Legolas - so Thranduil KNOWS his former captives were there. Maybe it's even Tauriel who warns Fili & co. they need to get out of Laketown, because she knows one way or the other Thranduil will be roused after Smaug's attack.
This is assuming Thranduil knows Legolas is alive, and they have had contact with each other - possibly even Legolas is the one who brings the news, tho since Legolas is heading to Dol Guldur at the moment - but I gotta assume he turns back for Tauriel when he either sees or hears Smaug. I know it's dark but it's hard to miss a flaming creature that's as big as two airplanes, and I can't think Legolas wouldn't turn back for Tauriel.
Only thing I can see wrong with my theory is who are these dead people? Perhaps after Laketown burnt they headed for Dale for shelter, as those buildings were stone, even if ruined. Or maybe they were going to try for some gold. And possibly Thranduil is actually tracking Fili and the surviving dwarves. And would he even know who Fili is? - but since he was willing to imprison Thorin, maybe that doesn't matter, or thinks he can just dominate some friendless heir.
Sigh - all so tantalizing, but LOL love the fact (of course) that these orcs easily slaughtered some helpless villagers, but bet trying to attack Thranduil was a surprise. As is watching your head roll across the cobbles.
Lee Pace is happy with himself - we are happy with you too!
Just so badass *THUD* twin swords and utter ferocity
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Avandel
Gondolin
Aug 13 2014, 9:38pm
Post #91 of 222
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Re the WETA books I noticed re costumes (and of course I love this) that they were always careful of Thorin's dignity, even in the Laketown rags. He's not a "comedy" character like Ori is to some extent. So one would think with ELROND it would all be about good taste.
But don't kill yourself trying to find the image - I gotta get the LOTR on Blu-Ray still, and now I am going to wait until the "super collection" comes out - because I am sure there will be one. It will be fascinating to go through the LOTR Appendices which I haven't seen - not sure why - wasn't until a few years ago I started getting an interest in the behind the scenes stuff, really. But appreciate the mention - and it IS often dull going through videos looking for one specific shot you know is there!
LOL if I were an actor, I would not want to be a pain to work with, but I might say something if my costume made me want to laugh or made me think of the Olympics or something.
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VValar
Mithlond
Aug 13 2014, 9:47pm
Post #92 of 222
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*waves* Hi there, I'm one of those silent thread visitors and just wanted to pop by to say hello and wanted to let you know I thoroughly enjoy all of your posts, although I'm afraid I don't have anything useful to contribute (yet) Still it's good to know I'm not the only one swooning over the fabulousness that is Thranduil Around ten years ago it happend to Bloom when he transformed into a blond-haired Elf, and now it happens to LP. Instant brilliance *sigh* Never thought I would ever expect dad outshine his son (who has secretly been my teenage crush for all those years), so that's saying quite a lot!
Well, I will stop my rambling for now and enjoy yours
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Avandel
Gondolin
Aug 14 2014, 12:11am
Post #93 of 222
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LOL I am in an image mood today...makes up for all the times I won't be able to stand resizing one more thing.....
This is for Eruvandi, 'coz she's so nice w. all the snark, and thinks of everyone - not new but thought a nice use of texture:
This one - just NICE!
Lots of color.....
Nice I think:
Just thought this one was interesting. What was the artist thinking? Does Thranduil just hate his wine, or is something more ominous going on? *Ponders*
Here's where I get in trouble, and anyway I don't usually like overly-sentimental stuff - but yah know, Thranduil had to be married or involved at SOME point, so I thought this was kind of nice tho evidently it's connected w. someone's fan fiction:
And there's this one - yeah, I know, there's an arrow. But I thought it was nice if grim, and anyway the arrow can be Gimped or 'shopped out. I am just posting this because it reminded me of our fellow TORn poster talking about Oropher, so maybe this is Thranduil comforting someone after a battle. Tho the more I think of it, why would he run around with an arrow - kind of awkward. So why would this assumed she-elf be in a gown on a battlefield? Er....I mean if I followed someone to battle I'd be like Eowyn or Tauriel, weapons-ready
Anyway it's better than shipping Thorin all the time, LOL:
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Avandel
Gondolin
Aug 14 2014, 12:19am
Post #94 of 222
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Didn't catch that comment until earlier - but anyway far as I know ,jpg files can't carry a transparent background. Try export as a .png. GIFs can carry transparency, but it's coz you have to tell the software to set a certain color, usually white, transparent. I don't like working w. gif files so much unless I have to. And I think you have to export to a .gif89 format or something like that.
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Avandel
Gondolin
Aug 14 2014, 1:48am
Post #96 of 222
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Tho thank you for finding this. I think. ROFLOL onion rings.
Agent Smith is not amused knowing this image has been preserved for posterity *cough*
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Kerewyn
Nargothrond
Aug 14 2014, 4:31am
Post #97 of 222
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Hello VValer, nice to hear from you, and that you are enjoying the Thralling madness.
Re the fan art with the arrow. I have seen this before, and the scene that sprang to mind for me is a surprise attack, and that Thranduil has swiftly made a human Elven shield of himself to protect his unarmed Elf lady. It’s not a mortal wound, but he is casting his eyes backward to see where his attacker is at. Any moment now, that sword may swing round…
Re the onion rings hair pic. Yes. Yes I see what you mean. It looks very… ceremonial.
'People don't know where I begin and latex ends, which has always been an ambition for me.' (Martin Freeman)
(This post was edited by Kerewyn on Aug 14 2014, 4:32am)
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Cirashala
Doriath
Aug 14 2014, 5:47am
Post #98 of 222
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actually the Silvan elves are Teleri as well, according to the Silmarillion
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because the Avari, or Unwilling, refused to leave Cuvienen, which is VERY, VERY far to the east- so far, that it's not even on the ME map.
The first part of the journey lost some Teleri to the vales of the Anduin, because they were too afraid to cross the Misty Mountains. The Silvan elves of Lothlorien and Mirkwood are descended from this group. The rest crossed the mountains and then Ered Luin and came into Beleriand, where they became Sindarin elves (and the Noldor and Vanyar continued on to Valinor, with some of the Noldor returning in the Feanorian Rebelliion to ME later).
So Thranduil's people actually CAN leave Middle-earth for Valinor, should they choose to do so. Whether they did or not remains a mystery, but they do have that choice
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Cirashala
Doriath
Aug 14 2014, 6:02am
Post #99 of 222
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"You look so....so...."
"Stupid."
lol!
That hairdo really does look like Princess Leia or Queen Amidala, not Middle-earth elf...
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Lurker in the Mirk
Doriath
Aug 14 2014, 12:51pm
Post #100 of 222
(5855 views)
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I'm a lurker. Fan of both books and movies; it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.
Appreciating Thranduil, thread by thread: I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX
(Tis true! More appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies)
Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), Two, Three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback by Kerewyn (new, posted 10 August), Four
"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
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Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk
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*ahem* I'd like to point out...
[
