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elentari3018
Nargothrond
Jan 25 2008, 4:52am
Post #1 of 14
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***FLIGHT TO THE FORD*** Discussion 6/? Nice to meet you, Glorfindel! Ai na vedui Dunadan! Mae govannen!
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Beautiful picture by Hope Hoover. Feel free to discuss the beauty of this (OR if you don't like it). I first found this as an Avatar on the warofthering.net forums.
The travelers hear the noise of hoofs behind them as they look for a place to camp at night. A light climppety-clippety-clip of hoofs comes nearer but Frodo says that this does not sound like a Black Rider’s horse.
But Strider was now leaning forward, stooped to the ground, with a hand to his ear, and a look of joy on his face.
Definitely not a Black Rider. :P
Suddenly into view below came a white horse, gleaming in the shadows, running swiftly. In the dust its headstall flickered and flashed, as if it were studded with gems like living stars. The rider’s cloak streamed behind him, and his hood was thrown back; his golden hair flowed shimmering in the wind of his speed. To Frodo it appeared that a white light was shining through the form and raiment of the rider, as if through a thin veil.
What an entry by Glorfindel, isn’t it? The description is beautiful and I think at least this part of the “white light shining” was accurately portrayed in the movie. (which is the *only* thing they portrayed right in this scene.) :angry look:
It has been mentioned in the previous discussion from Rosie Lass in ’05, that “the shining light” part seems to be only perceived by Frodo. I would think that it is because he’s affected by the Morgul wound is this possible. Light certainly denotes hope and probably Frodo thinks that he is some kind of angel out to help him. This is not the first instance in this chapter that light means hope though. We also saw that light helped cheer the hearts of Frodo, making him feel better as they reached the Trollshaws. Whenever it was “dark and cold”, Frodo felt worse and more in pain. Light battles pain, weariness and despair and in this chapter, we see a lot those examples.
So welcome Glorfindel! Glorfindel is definitely glad to see Strider as well as he rushes out calling Ai na vedui Dunadan! Mae govannen!
I love Elven speech and really liked how his clear ringing voice certainly pleasantly surprises the hobbits. “No others that dwelt in the wide world had voices so fair to hear.”
We hear to what purpose Glorfindel is out and about—he was looking for them but has not seen Gandalf, as he relays to them.
It was my lot to take the Road, and I came to the Bridge of Mitheithel, and left a token there, nigh on seven days ago. Three of the servants of Sauron were upon the Bridge, but they withdrew and I pursued them westward. I came also upon two others, but they turned away southward.
The Black Riders certainly seem terrified of Glorfindel. Glorfindel must’ve done battle on them or I think the Black Riders are just cowards in the face of this mighty Elf-lord, right? As we have learned from the previous posts and probably from other prior knowledge, this is no ordinary elf you’re dealing with. Elrond certainly sent a powerful, competent Elf to face the Nine.
Since then I have searched for your trail. Two days ago I found it, and followed it over the Bridge; and today I marked where you descended from the hills again. But come! There is no time for further news. Since you are here we must risk the peril of the Road and go. There are five behind us, and when they find your trail upon the Road they will ride after us like the wind. And they are not all. Where the other four may be, I do not know. I fear that we may find the Ford is already held against us.
What if this was true… was there a back-up plan to avoid the Black Riders blocking their way to the Ford?
Perhaps Glorfindel knows what will happen once they get to the Ford since we know that it is the Ford of Rivendell and Elrond would block it against invasion. Since the Black Riders still did not retrieve the Ring and Frodo has not become a wraith, shouldn’t they be desperately looking high and low for them? There are *nine* of them and to me, they sound pretty incompetent in finding the travelers. (Or Strider lead them in paths that they didn’t think to look in….or the Riders are just too cocky in thinking that Frodo would fade first.)
Frodo’s fading!
Frodo feels a great weariness and his pain and cold return. And Sam gets very anxious about his master.
Glorfindel catches Frodo as he sinks to the ground. At this point, at my first reading, I was terrified. Strider tells Glorfindel the story of Frodo’s wounding and shows Glorfindel the evil knife.
“There are evil things written on this hilt, though maybe your eyes cannot see them. Keep it Aragorn, till we reach the house of Elrond! But be wary, and handle it as little as you may! Alas! The wounds of this weapon are beyond my skill to heal. I will do what I can—but all the more do I urge you now to go on without rest.”
For the first time, “Aragorn”, is mentioned. The first extra name of Strider, we get to know. I like it how Tolkien gives gradual hints to the real identity of Strider. First in Bree with Gandalf’s letter with the poem about him, then Strider saying to the hobbits about “the ancestors of Elendil” not forgetting things in the past, and now Glorfindel mentions Strider’s proper name. It’s very effective in keeping the suspense of his real identity secret yet there are hints that he is not a mere Ranger.
Then, Glorfindel “searches the wound on Frodo’s shoulder with his fingers, and his face grew graver, as if what he learned disquieted him. But Frodo felt the chill lessen in his side and arm; a little warmth crept down from his shoulder to his hand, and the pain grew easier. The dusk of evening seemed to grow lighter about him, as if a cloud had been withdrawn. He saw his friends’ faces more clearly again, and a measure of new hope and strength returned.”
Glorfindel for healer! I think he’s more effective than Strider. Certainly, Glorfindel has some unspoken power. Since he’s an elf-lord, he seems to have some power in making a wounded hobbit more hopeful by chasing the shadows away. I actually wrote a fanfic that had a conversation between Frodo and Glorfindel but that was ages ago. It dealt with Frodo seeing more to Glorfindel that meets the eye. PM me if interested in reading it.
Did his presence bring new hope to the hobbits and Strider?
Definitely. In many, many ways. First, he eases Frodo’s pain and discomfort somewhat and brings more hope to him.
Second, he pushes the travelers to travel faster since it’s getting to the critical point where the Riders may find them.
Third, the “liquor from his silver-studded flask of leather” (I think it’s the first gulps of miruvor the hobbits are taking) gave them some strength and vigor back. Fourth, Asfaloth greatly reduced the luggage burdens of the hobbits and saved Frodo in the end. Fifth, he takes over leadership and pushes them hard to safety.
Frodo’s response to having to ride Asfaloth:
“I shall not ride him, if I am to be carried off to Rivendell or anywhere else, leaving my friends behind in danger.”
Still courageous and thinking of others till the end… but is that a bit of a naïve statement since they are all in danger because of the Ring and he has the Ring… but then again, we cannot blame a wounded hobbit for being stubbornly thinking of his friends.
Signs that Frodo is fading…
Frodo sat upon the horse in a dark dream.
And after the 20 miles before nightfall,
Frodo’s pain has redoubled, and during the day things about him faded to shadows of ghostly grey. He almost welcomed the coming of night, for then the world seemed less pale and empty.
That is definitely worrisome and a sign that he is becoming a wraith. Preferring night over day is serious. Everything turning grey is not comforting either. His sight is affected tenfold from the last time we heard anything about how things were perceived before. There was a mist in his eyes when they reached the Trollshaws, when he was better but all this traveling is definitely taking a toll. For a Frodo fan, I am biting my nails. :P
At this point, Frodo would be functioning on adrenaline. Has there ever been an instance where you know you have to keep the strength and to keep going however grueling and hard it is? Maybe in a sports contest or trying hard in a deadline you’re trying to make. Perhaps that is a poor comparison compared with the intense pain that Frodo is feeling right now, but yep, Frodo is hanging on…
will it be enough?
….
Stay tuned for the next bit of this incredible chapter. (Well, the next part is my favorite so I’ll try VERY hard not to be excited so that I won’t be coherent. :P)
"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo
"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series
(This post was edited by elentari3018 on Jan 25 2008, 4:57am)
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Elizabeth
Gondolin
Jan 25 2008, 6:36am
Post #2 of 14
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Two chapters ago, we had four Riders in the Shire. Three attacked Crickhollow in the last chapter; we don't know where the fourth was at that moment. Earlier, the other five were battling Rangers at Sarn Ford, and pursued them eastward. Two of this group were seen in and around Bree, and all five of this group were at Weathertop. It's fair to assume that the group of four are riding as fast as possible to join the five, having realized that the Ringbearer had given them the slip.
Concerning Frodo's perception of Glorfindel, it is said that Elves exist in both the sprit and temporal realms, but mortals only in the latter. The wraiths are entirely in the spirit realm, which is why they're invisible to mortals (and have trouble seeing, as well). Wearing the Ring, Frodo could see the wraiths clearly. As you observe, he is slipping in that direction due to his wound, so being able to see the spirit side of Glorfindel is consistent with this. I liked the fact that movie-Frodo also saw Arwen as a spirit.
Gandalf mentioned in his letter that "Aragorn" is Strider's real name, but Glorfindel is the first person we've seen who uses that name. I love it that the hobbits never entirely recover from thinking of him as Strider, and that he himself adopts the name as his family name.
Whew, that was fun.
Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Jan 25 2008, 8:10am
Post #3 of 14
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Gandalf faced nine on Weathertop.
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He says he left the hill "with all the Nine at my heels", but five turned back to find Frodo.
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visualweasel
Nargothrond
Jan 25 2008, 3:14pm
Post #4 of 14
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Beautiful picture by Hope Hoover. Feel free to discuss the beauty of this (OR if you don't like it). I first found this as an Avatar on the warofthering.net forums.
Very nice illustration. I like that the Hobbits are each in a different color. Merry and Pippin seem to be consoling each other, while Sam's staying in very close contact with Frodo. Frodo is clutching Glorfindel's wrist, which I find a beautiful detail. Sam and Glorfindel are both turned to Aragorn, who is holding the hilt of the Nazgûl's knife. Interesting that Aragorn is just outside the frame. Is this the way the artist rendered it, or is this cropped from the original? If it's not cropped, then this is a very interesting choice by the artist.
My only aesthetic complaint is that Frodo, to me, looks just a little bit "Interview with the Vampire" for my taste. But it's really a very nicely executed work overall.
Jason Fisher
Lingwë - Musings of a Fish
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Jan 25 2008, 3:31pm
Post #5 of 14
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Beautiful picture by Hope Hoover. Feel free to discuss the beauty of this (OR if you don't like it). I first found this as an Avatar on the warofthering.net forums.
Reminds me of a blonde Mick Jagger. or maybe a young Klaus Kinski.
Suddenly into view below came a white horse, gleaming in the shadows, running swiftly. In the dust…
I thought the weather was cold and rainy? It should be mud, not dust, but I guess that wouldn’t have worked.
So welcome Glorfindel! Glorfindel is definitely glad to see Strider as well as he rushes out calling Ai na vedui Dunadan! Mae govannen!
I love Elven speech and really liked how his clear ringing voice certainly pleasantly surprises the hobbits. “No others that dwelt in the wide world had voices so fair to hear.”
We hear to what purpose Glorfindel is out and about—he was looking for them but has not seen Gandalf, as he relays to them.
It was my lot to take the Road, and I came to the Bridge of Mitheithel, and left a token there, nigh on seven days ago. Three of the servants of Sauron were upon the Bridge, but they withdrew and I pursued them westward. I came also upon two others, but they turned away southward.
The Black Riders certainly seem terrified of Glorfindel. Glorfindel must’ve done battle on them or I think the Black Riders are just cowards in the face of this mighty Elf-lord, right? As we have learned from the previous posts and probably from other prior knowledge, this is no ordinary elf you’re dealing with. Elrond certainly sent a powerful, competent Elf to face the Nine.
Yes, it does seem that Strider has been upstaged. The introduction of such a powerful character does put Aragorn in a decidedly secondary role. One wonders why Tolkien did it. Did he feel he had written Strider into a corner with no way out?
Since then I have searched for your trail. Two days ago I found it, and followed it over the Bridge; and today I marked where you descended from the hills again. But come! There is no time for further news. Since you are here we must risk the peril of the Road and go. There are five behind us, and when they find your trail upon the Road they will ride after us like the wind. And they are not all. Where the other four may be, I do not know. I fear that we may find the Ford is already held against us.
What if this was true… was there a back-up plan to avoid the Black Riders blocking their way to the Ford?
Do the Black Riders know where the group is going?
Perhaps Glorfindel knows what will happen once they get to the Ford since we know that it is the Ford of Rivendell and Elrond would block it against invasion. Since the Black Riders still did not retrieve the Ring and Frodo has not become a wraith, shouldn’t they be desperately looking high and low for them? There are *nine* of them and to me, they sound pretty incompetent in finding the travelers. (Or Strider lead them in paths that they didn’t think to look in….or the Riders are just too cocky in thinking that Frodo would fade first.)
I’d always imagine the Ringwraiths had a few in back of the group “herding” them and other riders in front to keep tabs on the direction they were going. It would seem they could attack and take the ring at any time. I think what they’re interested in is where the ring is going. Once they finally figure that out, Frodo’s goose is cooked.
“There are evil things written on this hilt, though maybe your eyes cannot see them. Keep it Aragorn, till we reach the house of Elrond! But be wary, and handle it as little as you may! Alas! The wounds of this weapon are beyond my skill to heal”.
There's something beyond his skill? Well that’s surprising!
For the first time, “Aragorn”, is mentioned. The first extra name of Strider, we get to know. I like it how Tolkien gives gradual hints to the real identity of Strider. First in Bree with Gandalf’s letter with the poem about him, then Strider saying to the hobbits about “the ancestors of Elendil” not forgetting things in the past, and now Glorfindel mentions Strider’s proper name. It’s very effective in keeping the suspense of his real identity secret yet there are hints that he is not a mere Ranger.
Yeah, besides being extremely powerful he also seems to know everybody’s secrets. One suspects Glorfindel is Tolkien’s “Mary Sue” character.
Then, Glorfindel “searches the wound on Frodo’s shoulder with his fingers, and his face grew graver, as if what he learned disquieted him. But Frodo felt the chill lessen in his side and arm; a little warmth crept down from his shoulder to his hand, and the pain grew easier. The dusk of evening seemed to grow lighter about him, as if a cloud had been withdrawn. He saw his friends’ faces more clearly again, and a measure of new hope and strength returned.”
Glorfindel for healer! I think he’s more effective than Strider.
Yep. Strider is definitely put in the background.
Certainly, Glorfindel has some unspoken power. Since he’s an elf-lord, he seems to have some power in making a wounded hobbit more hopeful by chasing the shadows away. I actually wrote a fanfic that had a conversation between Frodo and Glorfindel but that was ages ago. It dealt with Frodo seeing more to Glorfindel that meets the eye. PM me if interested in reading it.
Did his presence bring new hope to the hobbits and Strider?
Of course. That’s what Mary Sue characters do.
In many, many ways. First, he eases Frodo’s pain and discomfort somewhat and brings more hope to him.
Second, he pushes the travelers to travel faster since it’s getting to the critical point where the Riders may find them.
Third, the “liquor from his silver-studded flask of leather” (I think it’s the first gulps of miruvor the hobbits are taking) gave them some strength and vigor back. Fourth, Asfaloth greatly reduced the luggage burdens of the hobbits and saved Frodo in the end. Fifth, he takes over leadership and pushes them hard to safety.
Yep, he takes over leadership. I guess Tolkien felt Strider wasn’t doing so well in that department.
Frodo’s response to having to ride Asfaloth:
“I shall not ride him, if I am to be carried off to Rivendell or anywhere else, leaving my friends behind in danger.”
Still courageous and thinking of others till the end… but is that a bit of a naïve statement since they are all in danger because of the Ring and he has the Ring… but then again, we cannot blame a wounded hobbit for being stubbornly thinking of his friends.
I suspect he’s thinking back to the barrow and his momentary ideas of deserting his friends. Of course he’s adamant about never even thinking of doing anything like that again.
Signs that Frodo is fading…
Frodo sat upon the horse in a dark dream.
And after the 20 miles before nightfall,
Frodo’s pain has redoubled, and during the day things about him faded to shadows of ghostly grey. He almost welcomed the coming of night, for then the world seemed less pale and empty.
That is definitely worrisome and a sign that he is becoming a wraith. Preferring night over day is serious. Everything turning grey is not comforting either. His sight is affected tenfold from the last time we heard anything about how things were perceived before. There was a mist in his eyes when they reached the Trollshaws, when he was better but all this traveling is definitely taking a toll. For a Frodo fan, I am biting my nails. :P
At this point, Frodo would be functioning on adrenaline. Has there ever been an instance where you know you have to keep the strength and to keep going however grueling and hard it is? Maybe in a sports contest or trying hard in a deadline you’re trying to make. Perhaps that is a poor comparison compared with the intense pain that Frodo is feeling right now, but yep, Frodo is hanging on…
Yea, sometimes you just keep plodding on despite being in a deep funk. You really don’t think about anything except putting one foot in front of the other. Ironically, pain can help you keep going. If the pain fades that’s when you realize how very very tired you are and you’re liable to lie down and quit. Pain is not necessarily a bad thing.
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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Ainu Laire
Dor-Lomin
Jan 26 2008, 12:08am
Post #6 of 14
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I do love what Glorfindel says to Aragorn: At last, well met, Dunadan. I wonder if he was referring to him by the generic Dunadan title, or if he was going by Bilbo's name for Aragorn.
The picture: It's alright, but I'm more a fan of more realistic interpretations and the coloring does not convey that as much. And her Glorfindel looks sort of, well, not-Glorfindel. My image of Glorfindel will ALWAYS be this absolutely amazing picture by the dA artist Lena-Hyena. That picture just screams coolness and power and... coolness.
And you know I'm bugged that the best one out of all of them was left out of the pic ;) Nevertheless, the artist certainly has talent.
My LJ
My art site
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Elizabeth
Gondolin
Jan 26 2008, 5:10am
Post #7 of 14
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(with the Gaffer, according to the Tale of Years) the night the hobbits spent at the Prancing Pony. Four Riders were at Crickhollow. So basically Gandalf passed them to get to Weathertop ahead, right?
Ok, Gandalf was on Shadowfax, but wouldn't they be using the same road? Neither would go cross-country, would they, on account of all being in a hurry? Maybe Gandalf traveled only by day and the Riders only by night? But all of them were in a tearing hurry.
Not that I doubt Gandalf's count of nine, I'm just trying to figure out all the movements.
Whew, that was fun.
Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
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Millican
Lindon
Jan 27 2008, 1:24am
Post #8 of 14
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or is he just doing a backward version of that Star Trek hand-signal on Frodo's chest?
sorry, back to seriousness...
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elentari3018
Nargothrond
Jan 28 2008, 5:39am
Post #9 of 14
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Thanks for sharing that portrayal of Glorfindel. =)
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"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo
"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series
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elentari3018
Nargothrond
Jan 28 2008, 5:46am
Post #10 of 14
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Do the Black Riders know where the group is going? That is an interesting question because we know that they don't. However, with the amount of them present, we would think they won't go in one direction searching them. Their resolve to let the wound do its work was foolish yet even with Glorfindel chasing some to three to the west and two to the south, that leaves 4 to go wherever they want to go and wherever they feel the company would think of going. It'll be interesting to hypothesize in which ways they were going in those two weeks... It's hard to believe that they just couldn't keep up with the travelers and really believed that the wound would have Frodo succumb to their wills.
"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo
"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Mar 26 2008, 3:19am
Post #11 of 14
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I don’t much care for the image. But then, pointy ears always bug me. (And they should be in or near a thicket of smaller hazels, not the tall trees shown.) The picture linked by Ainu Laire doesn’t do much for me, either: too haughty.
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Mar 26 2008, 3:20am
Post #12 of 14
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Aragorn himself uses his name.
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For the first time, “Aragorn”, is mentioned.
Gandalf mentioned in his letter that “Aragorn” is Strider’s real name, but Glorfindel is the first person we’ve seen who uses that name.
In Bree, Strider says, “I am Aragorn son of Arathorn; and if by life or death I can save you, I will.”
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Mar 26 2008, 3:22am
Post #13 of 14
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Gandalf explains at the Council.
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Four were in the Shire. Two went to Bree. Three, including the Witch-king, remained along the Greenway. They all reported to him on the evening of Oct. 1, as Strider led the hobbits through the Chetwood and Gandalf stayed at The Pony. Late that night, the Witch-king went east along the Road with four Riders (passing through Bree) and sent the other four cross-country in the same direction. They were all overtaken by Gandalf near Weathertop on Oct. 3, withdrew while the day lasted, then all nine attacked him on the hill. He held out until dawn, then fled north with all nine following. Five, including the Witch-king, soon returned to the Road near Weathertop, suspecting the Ringbearer might come that way looking for Gandalf. The other four pursued Gandalf some distance, but also eventually gave up. They turned south-east, slowly working their way through the hills back to the Road near the Ford, arriving apparently about the same time as the Ring. The other five, only partly successful at Weathertop, lost track of the Ring and so patrolled the Road between Weathertop and the Bridge, rightly guessing that Frodo must return to the Road to cross the Mitheithel. Glorfindel drove off the three on the Bridge a few days before Frodo reached it. They retreated a good way west. So did the other two that Glorfindel met on the Road (one of them the Witch-king). That put them just far enough behind Frodo to allow him to reach the Ford first.
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Mar 26 2008, 3:23am
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Suddenly into view below came a white horse, gleaming in the shadows, running swiftly. In the dust…
I thought the weather was cold and rainy? It should be mud, not dust, but I guess that wouldn’t have worked.
Actually the rain had stopped at least 36 hours earlier, if it had even been raining here. But there’s a mistake in elentari’s transcription: for “dust” read “dusk”.
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