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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Richard Taylor on Del Toro, Makeup vs CGI und TABA (video)

TheHutt
Gondor


Apr 23 2014, 8:31pm

Post #1 of 23 (1433 views)
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Richard Taylor on Del Toro, Makeup vs CGI und TABA (video) Can't Post

Conducted at HobbitCon 2014 by Cirdan from HDRF.de. Richard Taylor was just simply, genuinely amazing. I also had a chance to talk to him (several, actually), but Cirdan made an actual video interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xlq1UBue-Q

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Booklet Project



SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Apr 23 2014, 8:55pm

Post #2 of 23 (771 views)
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Cool [In reply to] Can't Post

What do you talk to him about?


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Apr 23 2014, 8:59pm

Post #3 of 23 (754 views)
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Great questions as always [In reply to] Can't Post

I always enjoy the nice atmosphere of Cirdans interviews! On the other hand... Richard Taylor always seems to be one of the nicest people in the world. If I think of New Zealanders Richard Taylor comes to my mind. A nice, open minded and gently person

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Apr 23 2014, 9:01pm

Post #4 of 23 (747 views)
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I really like [In reply to] Can't Post

that passionate and full of creativity guy.He is certainly one of the cornerstones in the whole production of the Middle Earth Saga.Very interesting insight behind the reasons of some decisions made in the Hobbit trilogy also.
Thank you very much for that interview.

"Obsession and narrow-mindness is the trend of the 2000's and synonyms to many Tolkien fanatics"


SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Apr 23 2014, 9:20pm

Post #5 of 23 (715 views)
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Great interview! [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice to know Richard Taylor prefers prosthetics too!


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Apr 23 2014, 9:29pm

Post #6 of 23 (677 views)
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Such a beautiful man. Thanks. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Apr 23 2014, 9:32pm

Post #7 of 23 (688 views)
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Yep... [In reply to] Can't Post

My thoughts exactly.


tsmith675
Gondor


Apr 23 2014, 9:36pm

Post #8 of 23 (701 views)
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Awesome interview. I also.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Watched his interview with Peter Jackson back from DoS because I hadn't seen it. That was a great interview as well!

Our destiny lies above us.


tsmith675
Gondor


Apr 23 2014, 10:04pm

Post #9 of 23 (668 views)
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He likes the prosthetics more because he works on the prosthetics.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Our destiny lies above us.


Avandel
Half-elven

Apr 23 2014, 10:20pm

Post #10 of 23 (647 views)
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Great! Thank you! [In reply to] Can't Post

Fascinating (but sad) hearing about how a changing industry and costs forces the loss of some things that were done by hand. I always wondered after all the hard work on the AUJ goblins which PJ switched out for CGI if any of the workers were a "tad" upset - what a lovely explanation of the mindset you have to develop for movie work. Tho it would have been interesting for me to see less CGI goblins and more of the "human" goblins, to somehow get a better idea of what PJ ended up being unhappy about. I know it was said in the blogs the movement wasn't what PJ wanted (and goblins that were passing out from the heat) but I thought the goblin suits and masks were terrific.

And I would love to tell Richard Taylor & co. that the development and filling out of the dwarf aesthetic is truly appreciated, from the magnificent Erebor to the pattern designs to the costumes. Nice to know Richard Taylor thinks so much of Orcrist - a gorgeous, striking weapon (I have the UC version) - really is a beautiful thing, even as a replica. I still loved the blog talking about how perfect the tolerances had to be for the sword, and how it was not easy to make - worth the effort.

"Richard Armitage’s performance has been one of the best things about the new trilogy, making you believe that a hairy dwarf, so often the comedy element of the LOTR films, can be a heroic, tortured, and dangerous badass." - Den of Geek, The Hobbit: There & Back Again, 7 Apr 2014 - 07:07


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Apr 23 2014, 10:35pm

Post #11 of 23 (658 views)
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This is all detailed in the AUJ appendices... [In reply to] Can't Post

Most of the actors who portrayed the Goblins still appeared in the film, but they lost the animatronic masks they originally wore and were instead given CGI heads. This was done because PJ wanted them to be running and jumping around like maniacs, and they couldn't physically do all of that in the bulky masks they were wearing. Personally, I'd have rather had more human-like movements as opposed to the way they portrayed the Goblins with rodent-like jerky movements. Then again, there wasn't much I liked about PJ's vision of Goblin-town.


Avandel
Half-elven

Apr 23 2014, 11:17pm

Post #12 of 23 (625 views)
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True - but [In reply to] Can't Post

He did switch out some for complete CGI goblins re the Appendices. I knew about the mo-cap heads - that I couldn't tell from the film - for instance, the goblin raising his knife to Thorin I thought was really well done.

For me, I DID really love the design of Goblin Town - when I thought about the remark "how do you make a hole in the ground interesting?" Well, to me they did, plus the addition of all the creepy stuff hanging around, the Goblin King, and the goblins themselves.

What I don't like is what a lot of people seem to object to - in my case the really obvious CGI goblins, especially in the distance shots, over-use of digital doubles - I understand what PJ was going for but it's one of the things I would argue with him about - that there are parts where less would have been more IMO in Goblin Town - like to me it was more interesting seeing the dwarves fight up close and personal than distant digital double shots. (Just like I didn't think the aerial view of Bilbo running and Hobbiton was that interesting, tho PJ seems to love those kind of shots. I would rather have seen Bilbo running past more befuddled hobbits.) Plus the sequences where less was spent on the CGI, and the CGI goblins are just so obvious.

Am sorry you didn't like it a lot about Goblin Town but I thought it was innovative, design and character-wise, tho for me also frustrating.

"Richard Armitage’s performance has been one of the best things about the new trilogy, making you believe that a hairy dwarf, so often the comedy element of the LOTR films, can be a heroic, tortured, and dangerous badass." - Den of Geek, The Hobbit: There & Back Again, 7 Apr 2014 - 07:07


Elessar
Valinor


Apr 23 2014, 11:18pm

Post #13 of 23 (622 views)
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That's why [In reply to] Can't Post

I've had more than one disagreement with people that the goblins were a fair amount still people in suits. It was just cgi heads but I don't think people pay attention to these things in general.



entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Apr 24 2014, 12:45am

Post #14 of 23 (605 views)
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I've been able to chat with Sir Richard a few times, [In reply to] Can't Post

and it's not hard to get him to talk - he genuinely loves people. At Cons, he's got a few "minders" to keep him on schedule because without them, he would never leave! He loves to talk about how his teams make the things in the movies, or the items that Weta sells, or the state of his industry, or whatever. He's very down-to-earth and so easy to talk to.


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Apr 24 2014, 2:14am

Post #15 of 23 (551 views)
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Thanks for this [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice interview. Aside from the discussion, the bit at the beginning about them going through LotR exhibition grounds to go see the Abyss in IMAX while in London for the LotR premiere was priceless. It's a bit sad though he doesn't have a specific emotional attachment to bits in TH as compared to LotR. Orcrist is great though.


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III



Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Apr 24 2014, 6:29pm

Post #16 of 23 (390 views)
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What I didn't like about it... [In reply to] Can't Post

...was the way it was portrayed as a series of bridges and structures over a big chasm. I felt it should have been portrayed more like a series of tunnels, much darker and more claustrophobic. And I didn't like the goofy portrayal of the Goblins, especially the scribe and the Great Goblin. IMO the Great Goblin should have been menacing, not a dancing and singing buffoon. But then I guess PJ didn't want the Great Goblin stealing Azog's thunder. You know, because Azog is so integral to the story of The Hobbit and all...


Avandel
Half-elven

Apr 24 2014, 9:13pm

Post #17 of 23 (352 views)
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I'll give you that! [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought the TE Great Goblin was great - but meh - when I saw the EE song he did I really was horrified - IMO it's awful, awful. I guess they were trying to be whimsical and keep some of that from the book, but unlike the dwarves singing at Bag End which I thought was great - I cringe through that sequence. Can only credit the dwarf actors for hanging in there through it, but I wonder what actors like RA and Ken Stott would have been thinking. (I know what I thought and I can't even put that on TORn - it's *bleep*)

Can see doing tunnels the way you describe - that would have been cool, too, reminds me of the Barrow-downs. Maybe they thought about it and decided they really couldn't do that without it looking too much like Moria, again?

LOL Azog. Well, OK, I think Manu Bennett is even better in DOS - BUT. I'm still not feeling too much emotionally about the "hero" orcs, especially Bolg - there's nothing to really hook me in with these "fearsome" orcs - for me the LOTR Uruk-Hai were far more terrifying. Unlike Smaug who IMO as a villain is an instant classic.

"Richard Armitage’s performance has been one of the best things about the new trilogy, making you believe that a hairy dwarf, so often the comedy element of the LOTR films, can be a heroic, tortured, and dangerous badass." - Den of Geek, The Hobbit: There & Back Again, 7 Apr 2014 - 07:07


FoFo64
Rivendell


Apr 25 2014, 2:29pm

Post #18 of 23 (306 views)
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I like the Goblin King [In reply to] Can't Post

I never had a problem with him. I think the way they portrayed him in the movie was staying close to the more whimsical nature of the book. Along with other moments, like the more fun and OTT Barrel scene in DOS. It's not supposed to be a dark and grim story like LOTR. It makes sense to be less realistic and more like a live action animated film.

Although I knew from the outset, a lot of people would prob be upset with the Hobbit trilogy, because they'd be expecting a return to the dark and gritty LOTR style of film. By its very nature The Hobbit is much more lighthearted.

'It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing...' Boromir; Fellowship of the Ring Film

(This post was edited by FoFo64 on Apr 25 2014, 2:31pm)


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Apr 25 2014, 6:11pm

Post #19 of 23 (283 views)
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Yes, The Hobbit is more whimsical in general... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but the Great Goblin from the book was not a theatrical buffoon hamming it up like the one from the movies. "Over Hill and Under Hill" is one of the darker chapters in the book, so I felt it should have been one of the darker parts of the film, not the goofy Disney song-and-dance silliness that we got. And yes, I know that the Goblins sang in the book, but the Goblin song was described as "terrifying", which was not the case with the song in the movie at all. Don't even get me started on the Goblin "band" from the extended edition.

Anyway, while I enjoyed the "Chip the Glasses" number at Bag-End, in general my trouble with the humor in these films is that it's not the same gentle whimsy of Tolkien's story. Instead, the "humor" in these films has mostly been of the snot, burp, bird-dung, and food fight variety.

And you're right, The Hobbit is not supposed to be a grim, dark story like LotR (although there are some dark parts of The Hobbit). But obviously PJ's attempting to make it much darker by including the Necromancer plot-line, and then by inventing this link between the Necromancer and the Bo5A. So it feels off tonally when on the one hand you have the deep dark Sauron stuff, but at the same time also the goofy Fred Astaire Goblin stuff.


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Apr 25 2014, 6:23pm)


FoFo64
Rivendell


Apr 25 2014, 6:34pm

Post #20 of 23 (274 views)
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It's a matter of interpretation I suppose... [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes I agree with you that the Goblin Caves in the book were far more claustrophobic and scary than in the film, however that has always been a product of PJ's manner of adapting a book to film ever since LOTR.

In the book Mordor is also described as being absolutely pitch dark and there's even a passage where Frodo can't see his hand in front of him. PJ has always opted to stray away from that more horror movie style of filmmaking since LOTR and chose to instead make things more well lit in order to show the characters and action scenes properly. Which is his prerogative, I can understand the change, even though it makes things very different tonally.

Back on topic with the Goblin King however, I think it's a matter of interpretation. When I read the book...I never really found the Goblins so terrifying and found them to be whimsical and playfully "scary," in the same sense as Big Bad Wolf in Little Red Riding Hood or the witch in Hansel and Gretel. I always felt Tolkien was drawing more from this kind of "fairytale" sort of "dark" characters than actual darkness, unlike the LOTR novels. Obviously, what made the Hobbit books unique is that he set the otherwise "fairy" kind of storytelling in a context of real history and larger scope.

But once the Goblins were singing in the book, I never felt they were actually terrifying. It was somewhat a funny endearing chapter for me. Tolkien mentions they were "terrifying" but I still feel he says it in a kind of fatherly way, as if he's reading a bed time story for a small child. It's a ironic kind of terrifying. To me at least. So for me I feel PJ prob interpreted the Goblin King and the Goblins more the way that I envisioned it from the book. Obviously it doesn't fall in line with everyone's interpretation.

And yes, you're right, with the added Necromancer stuff the movie has a mix of dark and light tones. But you know I don't mind, it's an unconventional form of storytelling but I think by doing so they managed to strike a balance between the lightness of The Hobbit and the darkness of LOTR. I have a feeling that with the upcoming BOTFA the film will reach that same level of darkness as LOTR, forming a bridge between both stories.

'It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing...' Boromir; Fellowship of the Ring Film

(This post was edited by FoFo64 on Apr 25 2014, 6:44pm)


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Apr 25 2014, 11:05pm

Post #21 of 23 (245 views)
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Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree... [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile


FoFo64
Rivendell


Apr 26 2014, 3:41pm

Post #22 of 23 (241 views)
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Indeeed lol [In reply to] Can't Post

It's nice to have a normal discussion here. When I read other threads I find that a lot of people on these boards end up personally attacking each other...sheesh lol

'It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing...' Boromir; Fellowship of the Ring Film


Bard'sBlackArrow
Lorien


Apr 29 2014, 1:39am

Post #23 of 23 (194 views)
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thanks for posting this // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

... on the other side of tomorrow...

 
 

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