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Kethry
Menegroth
Feb 1 2008, 11:57pm
Post #1 of 22
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**Many Meetings** 6 – Eärendil was a Mariner
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Frodo and Bilbo sit and chat pleasantly about happenings in the Shire. Since Bilbo so rarely gets news from home, he was quite happy to sit and talk about everything from tree-felling to pranks of the children. They were so involved with the news that they didn’t even notice someone standing over them and watching their enjoyment. For many minutes he stood looking down at them with a smile. It made me wonder just who it was this Man was smiling down at, Bilbo or Frodo. Both? Hobbits in general?
It’s Strider. Or is it Aragorn? But Bilbo knows him as the Dúnadan. It amused me, the many names and identities that this Man has, and Bilbo’s reaction to this unknown (to him) name. They exchange their knowledge about the names that they each know. Bilbo almost gets distracted in giving Frodo a language lesson, explaining ‘dún-adan: Man of the West, Númenorean’. Númenorean doesn’t really mean all that much to us at present. For me, it was quite a while before I noticed or understood the references to Númenor. There is so much detail, so much history layered everywhere.
Bilbo wonders where Strider had been. He wasn’t at the feast; no one knew where he had been. Bilbo mentions Arwen as inducement to him to have been there, but Aragorn’s business was quite important. He explains, ‘Elladan and Elrohir have returned out of the Wild unlooked-for, and they had tidings that I wished to hear at once.’
Bilbo’s reaction is interesting to me. ‘Well, my dear fellow,’ said Bilbo, ‘now you’ve heard the news, can’t you spare me a moment? I want your help in something urgent.’ All of Bilbo’s thoughts are on his song, and he considers the completion a good deal more important than anything else. I, for one, am interested I the news that Aragorn heard. But we get no indication of where they were, why they were gone, or why they came back. However, Bilbo seems to have a very narrow idea of what’s important, and all of his immediate priorities are all focused on his song, so away the two of them go.
Frodo is left alone with a sleeping Sam. He was alone and felt rather forlorn, although all about him the folk of Rivendell were gathered. My first thought on this was along the lines of ‘Poor Frodo having nothing to eat to distract him’. After all, that’s what helped him to ignore his feeling out-of-place at the feast. Then I thought about Merry and Pippin, and wondered just where had they gotten off to. But then I realized that I have felt this same way as Frodo. It is possible to be alone and lonely in the middle of a huge crowd.
Frodo begins to listen to the music. Now comes one of my most favorite paragraphs in the entire book:
At first the beauty of the melodies and of the interwoven words in elven-tongues, even though he understood them little, held him in a spell, as soon as he began to attend to them. Almost it seemed that the words took shape, and visions of far lands and bright things that he had never yet imagined opened out before him; and the firelit hall became like a golden mist above seas of foam that signed upon the margins of the world. Then the enchantment became more and more dreamlike, until he felt that an endless river of swelling gold and silver was flowing over him, too multitudinous for its pattern to be comprehended; it became part of the throbbing air about him, and it drenched and drowned him. Swiftly he sank under its shining weight into a deep realm of sleep.
I’m having a difficult time putting into words how this makes me feel and why I find this so beautiful. It’s not just the beautiful imagery of visions of far lands and golden mists above seas of foam. I love music. I can easily lose myself in my favorite pieces. I’ve had moments where things similar to this happen, where I get so involved with what I’m hearing, that different places and images come to mind, not planned, but seemingly summoned by the music. I am more easily moved by a beautiful piece of music, than by the most eloquent speaker. And when there are words that go with that music, than I am even more moved by it. This experience of Frodo’s is one that I would most like to experience. I know yesterday I spoke of places to go to, and that I wanted to see the Dwarven-realms. Well, if I could sit and listen to Elven music all day, that’s where I would rather be. Especially if I can sleep and have my dreams influenced by what I’m hearing. As FarFromHome said on Wednesday, this does sound to be the way to pass the time. Especially if you can’t understand the language. Well, what I managed to write about how I feel about the above passage is not precisely what I wanted to say, but I suppose it’s close enough.
Is there a passage in LotR that moves you more than others? Which is it and can you explain why? It can be anything, a stirring speech, a quiet moment, a song. This passage makes me wish I could write music, soul-stirring, passionate, contemplative, any kind of music. What passage inspires you?
It seems that the music is shaping Frodo’s dreams, or perhaps I’m assuming that it does. Eventually, after a long … dream of music, he heard a voice begin chanting. I am not going to attempt to analyze Bilbo’s song. I was never very good at that. But I will at least tell you that it is a song about Eärendil the mariner, and it takes place at the end of the First Age. Here is the entry from the Encyclopedia of Arda. There you will learn that Eärendil was the father of Elrond, and was a messenger sent to Valinor to beg for aid in the war against Morgoth.
The Elves who were sitting and listening to the song smile and applaud. They even request to hear it again, so as to be able to answer Bilbo’s question. Bilbo had wanted them to pick out the parts that Aragorn had inserted into the song, but the Elves claim that they cannot do so on one hearing. To them, mortals all sound alike.
Did the Elves truly like it? Are they being patronizing to Bilbo? If yes, what makes you think so?
Lindir makes a comment I want to point out. He had mentioned that mortals are not the study of the Elves. ‘We have other business.’
What other business? What do Elves do all day, anyway?
Bilbo moves back to Frodo, relieved that the song went over so well that they asked for a second hearing. Both Beren IV and ArathornJax point out that the Elves might enjoy Bilbo’s songs for the difference of perspective that he has and puts into his songs.
Bilbo assures Frodo that it was all his, with one exception. ‘Except that Aragorn insisted on my putting in a green stone. He seemed to think it important. I don’t why. Otherwise he obviously thought the whole thing rather above my head, and he said that if I had the cheek to make verses about Eärendil in the house of Elrond, it was my affair. I suppose he was right.’
Why do you think it was important that the green stone was included? What was it supposed to represent?
Frodo disagrees with Bilbo, that it wasn’t a disrespectful song. He thinks that it fit somehow into the evening. Keep in mind that if the median age of an Elf here in Rivendell is more than 7000, as was speculated, then a great many of these Elves could have personally known Eärendil. Now, that would be intimidating.
Bilbo points out that until you get used to it, it’s very easy to fall asleep here. I like how Bilbo talks of the appetite the Elves seem to have for music and poetry and tales: ‘They seem to like them as much as food, or more.’ How like a hobbit to compare an appreciation for the activities of the evening to food!
Well, this post had seemed to start out as short and light on questions. It’s certainly not as short as I thought it would be. But if there’s anything so far that I haven’t brought up, feel free to mention it.
"Any kind of plan where you lose your hat... is a bad plan."
'But it does not seem that I can trust anyone,' said Frodo.
Sam looked at him unhappily. 'It all depends on what you want,' put in Merry. 'You can trust us to stick to you through thick and thin - to the bitter end. And you can trust us to keep any secret of yours - closer than you keep it yourself. But you cannot trust us to let you face trouble alone, and go off without a word. We are your friends, Frodo.'
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Beren IV
Mithlond
Feb 2 2008, 1:06am
Post #2 of 22
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I suppose I should have replied to Dernwyn instead of replying here.
There certainly was procreation by the Elves during the Second Age, in Eregion, and I would imagine that most of the elves in Rivendell were probably born then, or perhaps in Lindon after the Númenóreans had beaten Sauron back after the fall of Eregion. There were a very few, I think, who survived the First Age.
What this means is that I don't think that very many of Bilbo's audience knew Eärendil - but they probably did know Gil-Galad, which is perhaps why Bilbo does not sing of them. And that alone is quite intimidating!
Once a paleontologist, now a botanist, will be a paleobotanist
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 2 2008, 6:04am
Post #3 of 22
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If Bilbo was sitting in the Hall of Fire
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writing a poem instead of attending the Feast - then how does he know that Arwen was there, and that Aragorn was not?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
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Feb 2 2008, 6:07am
Post #4 of 22
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the median age to be somewhat less than Elrond's - say, more like 5000-6000 years?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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Beren IV
Mithlond
Feb 2 2008, 6:45am
Post #5 of 22
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It depends on how much procreation happens in the Second and Third Ages. Tolkien creates an atmosphere that the Elves of the Third Age have basically stopped reproducing, even though he nowhere actually says it or even strongly implies it. Arwen was born in the Third Age, after all!
If all Elves were still procreating up until the end of the Second Age, but (with a few notable exceptions) stopped in the Third, then the median age in Rivendell is probably about 4,000. However, the Noldor seem to be more on the "dying end" of the Elven race, so it is reasonable that they stopped reproducing as soon as Rivendell was founded, when it was a refuge from the fallen Eregion. If this is the case, then 5-6,000, as you say.
Of course, if the Noldor haven't stopped procreating, or if Rivendell has had immigrants from Lindon or elsewhere, and they haven't stopped procreating, then the median age in Rivendell is probably only some hundreds.
Ultimately, it all comes down to how you interpret Tolkien's mythos - but I would say five to six millennia at the maximum.
Once a paleontologist, now a botanist, will be a paleobotanist
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SilentLion
Ossiriand
Feb 2 2008, 1:08pm
Post #6 of 22
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There was at least one who did
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Since Earendil was Elrond's father.
Without venturing too far astray into pop psychology, I sometimes wonder about how Elrond must have felt about his father. Elrond certainly didn't know him well, because he was taken prisoner at a young age (Earendil was away sailing at the time, I think) and then fostered by Maglor. And yet, his father is regarded as a mythic figure who saved Elves and Men from utter destruction. Elrond can look up in the sky every night and see Earendil's ship, where he lives still.
Sometimes I wonder if in quiet moments Elrond asks something like: "You saved the whole world dad; how come you never found the time to save me? How come we never sailed toy boats on the Sirion together?"
Perhaps it's fitting that that Elrond, who was born in what amounts to a refugee camp and then taken from his parents at such a young age, has spent his lifetime in Middle Earth building and caring for this perfectly calm and comfortable home of Imladras, where he takes in refugees and fosters kinsmen. Is he, the Angelina Jolie of M.E.?. He's built this perfect family around him, with a wife twin sons and a daughter, but we know that his much of the story of his family is bittersweet as well. His wife has already departed over the Sea, his two sons are fixated on revenge, and we know the fate of his daughter.
Perhaps, a little over the top, but I think Elrond in many ways is one of the great tragic figures in LOTR.
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squire
Gondolin
Feb 2 2008, 1:33pm
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I came to the same conclusion recently, thinking along the same lines as you.
It's an indication of Tolkien's powers as an artist that he created the Elrond you perceive, backwards. That is, Elrond's conflicted childhood as a hostage and fosterling was written without a thought that he might become the sage of Rivendell; and wise old Elrond of Rivendell at first shared only a name and halfelven nature with the boy who was Earendil's son, since the Middle-earth of the Hobbit and early LotR was not initially conceived as being part of the same world as the Silmarillion. Eventually they were connected, and the tales of Arwen, the Elven-rings, Gil-galad, and Celebrian added to the mix by the time LotR saw print. Yet readers of LotR never knew of Elrond's childhood beyond his abbreviated correction to Frodo's ignorance at the Council ("Earendil was my sire..." - yeah, and what about "Uncle" Maglor, sir? Is heritage more important than love?), and so could not make the connection that you have here.
I like the image of Elrond longing for a Dad to play with toy boats, as fan-fictiony as it is - would you assume that in compensation Elrond played with toy boats with his foster-son, Aragorn? Or did he pass the presumed emotional distance on to the next generation? And did Elladan and Elrohir ever connect themselves with Uncle Elros - "Dad, was he like me?" etc.
Tolkien's sense of family in his legendarium is so strong, so seemingly warped by his own experience, and thus so distant - I always think he would not appreciate our asking these questions and making these connections.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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FarFromHome
Doriath
Feb 2 2008, 8:29pm
Post #8 of 22
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Reading the description of Frodo falling under the spell of the singing, I couldn't help noticing how it's filled with imagery of flowing, moving water:
...seas of foam that sighed upon the margins of the world. ...he felt that an endless river of swelling gold and silver was flowing over him ... and it drenched and drowned him. Swiftly he sank...
There he wandered long in a dream of music that turned into running water....
It reminds me that the sound of the Sea is the last remnant of the Great Music in Middle-earth. And it also reminds me of Frodo's dreams of the Sea, Faramir's dream of the great wave, and even Sam's description of Galadriel:
"You could dash yourself to pieces on her, like a ship on a rock, or drownd yourself like a hobbit in a river..."
Flowing, moving water is a recurring theme in LotR, and is often associated with Elves, and with songs (the Nimrodel, for example) and dreams.
This lovely description of Frodo being "drowned" in song is a great example of this theme.
...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.
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Finding Frodo
Dor-Lomin
Feb 3 2008, 3:30am
Post #9 of 22
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Just a comment that this wording went over my head for a long time. If he had said "Earendil was my father" the significance might have struck me sooner. Not that I didn't know what "sire" meant, only that I used to be a big skimmer and missed a lot of details. I used to skip this poem too. Anyway, what I mean to say is, yes, the distance between Elrond and Earendil seems very great, and not just in years or miles. Great posts, SL and squire.
Where's Frodo?
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Feb 3 2008, 4:58am
Post #10 of 22
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There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...
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"Earendil was a mariner" is an adaption of Tolkien's earlier "Errantry". Here is Verlyn Flieger, in her article, "Poems by Tolkien: The Lord of the Rings" from J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia:
While he described the early "Errantry" as "a piece of verbal acrobatics and metrical high-jinks" with complex interior rhymes in "a metre [he] invented," it is in fact octobyllabic rhymed couplets with feminine endings on the model of the rapidly moving patter-songs in Gilbert and Sullivan.
Dale Nelson, in "Literary Influences, Nineteenth and Twentieth Centuries", from the same volume, specifically identifies "I Am the Very Model of a Modern Major General" as the metrical model for "Errantry". The melody isn't a good fit, though.
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Jan. 28-Feb. 3 for "Many Meetings".
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Elvenhome
Feb 4 2008, 7:34am
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I know that song! And can sing it from memory, along with the original Major General Song. Tom Lehrer rocks! But when I read Errantry, the Donald Swan tune is what plays in my head.
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
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"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Elvenhome
Feb 4 2008, 7:39am
Post #12 of 22
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I've always wondered about the green stone.
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Does it have anything to do with the Elessar stone? If so, what? Or does it have some other significance? I don't have any answers, just questions.
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Feb 4 2008, 4:55pm
Post #13 of 22
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Which may or may not be the same stone that Galadriel gives to Aragorn later in the story.
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Jan. 28-Feb. 3 for "Many Meetings".
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SilentLion
Ossiriand
Feb 4 2008, 9:22pm
Post #14 of 22
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The first time I read that, I may have interpretted "sire" as meaning "ancestor" (perhaps many generations back), rather than specifically meaning his father. I usually hear the term "sire" associated with horse-breeding and bloodlines, and it certainly conveys more emotional distance than "father". I'm not sure whether it's correct or not to refer to grandfathers, great-grandfathers and so forth as one's "Sires", but I don't think it dawned on me until I read the Silmarillion exactly how important Elrond's dad is.
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a.s.
Doriath
Feb 4 2008, 9:47pm
Post #15 of 22
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Tolkien's sense of family in his legendarium is so strong, so seemingly warped by his own experience, and thus so distant - I always think he would not appreciate our asking these questions and making these connections.
Do you mean Tolkien would object to our drawing inferences, parallels, or conclusions about his life because of the way he wrote about family in his fiction (and vice versa: conclusions that the way he wrote about family indicates something about his own experience)?
I agree he would have thought it improper to reference his own real-life experiences when we talk about his fictional world; and yet Tolkien has passed into history. This becomes an argument about the proper place, if any, of biographical information in literary criticism and analysis, I think. But for an ordinary reader interested in both the man and his works, I have to say it helps me understand certain sorrows and nuances. I am sure I feel sad for both Elrond and JRR, that their fathers were so far removed from them.
But outside of biographical interpretations or parallels, even if we knew nothing about Tolkien's family life, what happened to Elrond is just part of the very essential sadness of Elves, isn't it? To be immortal inside Time; to have loss that never leaves and simply gets farther and farther away as time passes so slowly? Part of what Tolkien is showing us about our wishes for immortality on this Earth is that loss could become unbearable after awhile, I think.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
"And we must all bring Provisions."
"Bring what ?"
"Things to eat."
"Oh!" said Pooh happily. "I thought you said Provisions.
I'll go and tell them." And he stumped off.
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SilentLion
Ossiriand
Feb 4 2008, 11:11pm
Post #16 of 22
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Personally, I prefer "Errantry" to "Earendil the Mariner"
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Errantry has a Kipling-esque rhythm that almost sings itself. While Tolkien is trying to immitate a certain style of medieval verse with "Earendil", my eyes glaze over just a bit while reading the parts list of all the exotic materials his accessories were made of. Sort of like reading the ingredients on a cereal box: "His flakes were fortfied with riboflavin"
What makes me much more impressed and moved by Tolkien's poetry is the combination: that he could use the same basic story and meter for two the heroic "Earendil" and the frivolous "Errantry". Somehow, I find it rather poignant to imagine that over time the story of "Earendil", whose sacrifice and heroic quest saved Elves and Men from destruction, evolved into a children's rhyme "There was a merry messenger, a passenger, a mariner", long after much of the meaning behind the story was lost.
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squire
Gondolin
Feb 5 2008, 12:18am
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'Errantry' was written first, but published later
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The story of the transformation is told in History of Middle-earth Vol 7.
It took Tolkien many tries, and many rejected versions, to transform a humorous "song that never ends" of a fairy sprite's gay adventures, into a rendering of the Earendil myth, while maintaining the same meter and rhyme scheme.
Ironically, as editor Christopher Tolkien relates, his father lost track of which version was which, and sent to the publishers a version that CT is certain was not the latest and most finished one. That last one, buried in a pile of paper somewhere for decades, got more or less published in HoME 7; among other changes, it adds the scene of the attack of the sons of Feanor on the last Elf-havens, in their vengeful search for the Silmaril.
Also ironically, by incremental stages like a butterfly emerging from a chrysalis, Earendel shed line after line from Errantry, until CT reveals that only one shared line remains in the final version: his scabbard of chalcedony.
Errantry was published in an Oxford poetry magazine in 1933. Later Tolkien enjoyed learning that people were investigating who had written it, based on their memory of certain lines and rhymes, in the early 1950s; it confirmed his theory that oral transmission preserved specifics, rather than generalities, of a tale or song. However, it was not published for a wide audience until the poetry collection The Adventures of Tom Bombadil came out in 1962. So it was natural for his readers to assume that Errantry was a "parody" of Bilbo's epic poem from Lord of the Rings!
I don't suppose Tolkien would disagree with your interpretation regarding the poems though: the premise of The Adventures of Tom Bombadil was that it was all "hobbit" poetry of some sort, whether composed or adapted from Elvish or Mannish sources. So we might well regard Errantry, within the legendarium, as a "falling off" into triviality of a distantly-remembered poem by Bilbo.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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SilentLion
Ossiriand
Feb 5 2008, 3:18am
Post #18 of 22
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Thanks, that's a fascinating history of the evolution of the poems.
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Kind of strange that Errantry actually evolved into Erendil, while in my mythical imagination, Erendil devolves into Errantry.
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Feb 5 2008, 10:00pm
Post #19 of 22
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Frodo and Bilbo sit and chat pleasantly about happenings in the Shire. Since Bilbo so rarely gets news from home, he was quite happy to sit and talk about everything from tree-felling to pranks of the children. They were so involved with the news that they didn’t even notice someone standing over them and watching their enjoyment. For many minutes he stood looking down at them with a smile. It made me wonder just who it was this Man was smiling down at, Bilbo or Frodo. Both? Hobbits in general?
That’s what Strider does. He eavesdrops on conversations.
Is there a passage in LotR that moves you more than others? Which is it and can you explain why? It can be anything, a stirring speech, a quiet moment, a song. This passage makes me wish I could write music, soul-stirring, passionate, contemplative, any kind of music. What passage inspires you?
"Pity filled his heart and great wonder, and suddenly the slow-kindled courage of his race awoke. He clenched his hand. She should not die, so fair, so desperate! At least she should not die alone, unaided."
Did the Elves truly like it?
Yep. It’s new. I bet by next week it’ll be all the rage, and Elven bards will be covering it for Laketown Records.
Are they being patronizing to Bilbo?
Not with Gandalf around.
Lindir makes a comment I want to point out. He had mentioned that mortals are not the study of the Elves. ‘We have other business.’
What other business? What do Elves do all day, anyway?
Meetings. “Sign in please. Read the minutes from the last meeting. I move we accept the minutes as read. Any old business? Any new business? The buffet was provided by Imladris Catering. Afterwards we have a presentation from Mithrandir concerning “Rings of Power”. We’ll need a bit of time to set up. A few announcements. There’s a courtesy room set up by Annatar’s Jewelry. Feel free to fill up your goodie bags with gifts. They also have an open bar.
Bilbo assures Frodo that it was all his, with one exception. ‘Except that Aragorn insisted on my putting in a green stone. He seemed to think it important. I don’t why. Otherwise he obviously thought the whole thing rather above my head, and he said that if I had the cheek to make verses about Eärendil in the house of Elrond, it was my affair. I suppose he was right.’
Why do you think it was important that the green stone was included?
It honors Elrond, and so softens any perceived cheekiness.
What was it supposed to represent?
The feminine. Galadriel, Celebrian, Arwen.
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The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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Beren IV
Mithlond
Feb 6 2008, 7:00am
Post #20 of 22
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I might suggest that the Elves are concerned about the future of their species and their own population dynamics. However, I like your description, especially Annatar's gift shop! 
Once a paleontologist, now a botanist, will be a paleobotanist
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Mar 22 2009, 5:36am
Post #21 of 22
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I think this is the only time Tolkien ever uses “multitudinous”.
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In any of his writings.
And why “peas and apples” for Men and Hobbits, respectively?
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Mar 22 2009, 5:37am
Post #22 of 22
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Tolkien later conceived of “Errantry” as an early effort by Bilbo. //
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<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Mar. 16-22 for a free discussion on the entire book.
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.
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