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Fili
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Dec 10 2013, 5:21pm
Post #1 of 37
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The DOS Expectation Showdown! Part II
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Continued from here.
Introduction
Hello Ringers! It is I, Fili: the hot dwarf who gets no chicks!
Over the past couple of weeks, we've clamored and cavorted, and turned the Hobbit Movie Discussion forum into a spoiler-fueled octagon. Dreams have been smashed, egos have been bruised, and carpel tunnel still rampages on.
Now, categorizing and dividing people into two sides is crude by nature, but is sometimes best for engaging in broad discussion. For the most part, there are two categories of opinion, or "sides," if you will, duking it out right now.
Dispel the Myths
First, lets dispel some myths that the two sides have about each other. For now, lets refer to both as side A and B.
How Side A Appears to Side B:
"These movies are a disgrace! Jackson is ruining Tolkien and his past LOTR films with all these horrible changes! Everything should be like the original book! CGI is cartoony crap and should never be used! Peter Lucas!!!"
How Side B Appears to Side A:
"Its PJ, baby! He can do no wrong! Let Bilbo fight the Battle of Five Armies by himself against Space Mutants! The critics all like it, and all the ones that don't are fat boring jerks! PJ is like Tywin Lannister: he craps gold!"
Now these are clearly extremes, and lets not indulge in any of that hyperbole.
The Question
Instead, lets be constructive and go on record by answering the following:
Overall, given what you know already, do you expect to be pleased or disappointed by Desolation of Smaug?
You can qualify your answer however you like, but in the end, its a pretty straight-forward, one-way-or-the-other answer to this question.
So What's The Point?
Once you answer this question, we can then begin to have an even more interesting discussion once you've seen it, for then we will have a new question to answer:
Did the film meet your expectation?
I can't speak for everyone, but I'm going to be REALLY curious to see how many of you come away from the movie with a reaction that differs from what you expected. If someone expected to be disappointed, and came away pleased as punch, I REALLY want to hear what that person has to say. Likewise, if someone expected to really enjoy the film, but then leaves the theater feeling like PJ ran over his/her dog, I REALLY want to hear what that person has to say.
So...dare you go on record, here and now?
“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”
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ecthelionsbeard
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Dec 10 2013, 5:35pm
Post #2 of 37
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I will walk out of DOS feeling like I just witnessed 2.5 hours of absolute garbage. I predict I will be soul crushingly disappointed.
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Olorin2607
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Dec 10 2013, 5:37pm
Post #3 of 37
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Did not know you were so negative about it? How come?
I know I will be thoroughly amazed.
(This post was edited by Nagini6 on Dec 10 2013, 5:51pm)
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ecthelionsbeard
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Dec 10 2013, 5:42pm
Post #4 of 37
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'Bombur and bowlingpin goblins' 'Legolas frolicking across rivers atop dwarf heads'
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(This post was edited by ecthelionsbeard on Dec 10 2013, 5:43pm)
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Olorin2607
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Dec 10 2013, 5:50pm
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Even before seeing how that actually looks like?
On top.. that would take well 5 minutes max. but the movie is 161.
And it's not surprising that we will get OTT moments. It's Peter Jackson after all.
(This post was edited by Nagini6 on Dec 10 2013, 5:56pm)
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book Gandalf
Nargothrond
Dec 10 2013, 5:57pm
Post #6 of 37
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yet talking purses in the book is fine?
were you disappointed with the books also?
This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.
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ecthelionsbeard
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Dec 10 2013, 5:58pm
Post #7 of 37
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How does Pete think these supremely absurd moments of bombastic, way over the top action make for great cinema? It kills any and all tension when characters display the kind of acrobatic prowess that automatically relegates them to virtually indestructible demo-god status. Now my only hope is that the effects at least look good. No human could possibly do the things we will see Legolas and Bombur do in this movie. It just throws believability out the window.
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Olorin2607
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Dec 10 2013, 6:02pm
Post #8 of 37
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I understand that concern and it is a problem.
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I don't like these moments very much as well, but if they at least are done in a more funny or badass way than the Goblintown-Sequence then I am willing to forgive.
But it doesn't render the whole thing garbage that is very much clear.
It's not 10/10 then but 9/10. 
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Bombadil
Gondolin
Dec 10 2013, 6:06pm
Post #9 of 37
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Stepping on someone's Head has been used already!
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One did it in Golbintown
During one of the Battles.
Did that bother you?
A second time in the
"Out of the Frying pan"
Bomby thinks it was someone
used Dwalin's Head
to boost himself into the Pine Trees!
Did THAT bother YOU?
By the Way, any Gymnastic manuervers
by Legolas are Performed by
Olympic Level Gymnasts
all the Time.
(Bomby used to be a Gymnast)
Does that bother you?
Skateboarders & Snowboarders
surf down Stairs all the Time.
Does that bother you?
In Cique de Soiel
All Dancer/ Gymastics do
Things
that are Gravity Defying too!
Does That bother you?
Legolas's running Horse mount?
Pommel House Gymnasts do that
all the Time.
The degree of Difficulty in Gymnastics
scoring often is BASED on HOW
Gravity defying a STUNT is!
Little Girls at the age of 8
are doing Back Flips on
a Balance Beam (4 inches wide)
all the Time.
Does That bother you?
This SERIES
isn't supposed to be Normal World.
Does that bother you?
Bomby
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ecthelionsbeard
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Dec 10 2013, 6:10pm
Post #10 of 37
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I, for one, thought the goblin-town chase and escape were amazing. Sure it was extreme but still plausible. However, Bombur turning into a bowling ball, wiping out legions of bowling-pin goblins and Legolas running across frothing rapids atop dwarf heads is positively impossible.
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Olorin2607
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Dec 10 2013, 6:12pm
Post #11 of 37
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But if you really thought that Goblin-town was good while saying Bombur Bowling ball would be impossible, then I can't help but thinking: what the heck? Have we seen the same movie? Falling 100 feet into a cave on a wooden bridge with nothing so much as a scratch?
(This post was edited by Altaira on Dec 10 2013, 6:57pm)
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Bombadil
Gondolin
Dec 10 2013, 6:14pm
Post #12 of 37
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Leggy walked on the Top of Deep Fresh
Powder snow,
that had almost buried
the Rest of the Company!
Did that bother you?
Bomby
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ecthelionsbeard
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Dec 10 2013, 6:24pm
Post #13 of 37
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is that, while highly unlikely, the goblin-town sequence is still possible. Plus, dwarves are sturdy folk with doubtlessly heavier bone structure. Hobbits are much the same. And of course Gandalf is a magical being. Everything was consistent upon the internal logic and rules of the narrative.
In contrast, however, dwarves cannot turn into bowling balls and then wipe out orcs as such. That's just ludicrous. Likewise, no natural being can dash across a violent river atop dwarf heads, each barrel moving out of sink with the next. The shear unpredictability makes such a feat utterly impossible. (Unless the waters are crystal calm when Legolas attempts this)
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wasscally wabbit
Lindon
Dec 10 2013, 6:26pm
Post #14 of 37
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I will walk out of DOS feeling like I just witnessed 2.5 hours of absolute garbage. I predict I will be soul crushingly disappointed.
Not exactly an open mind. I predict you'll get what you want and what you deserve.
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Fili
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Dec 10 2013, 6:27pm
Post #15 of 37
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Good Point, And Also In The Books
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These are elves we are talking about. They have superhuman finesse.
And could an extremely portly example of a short and stout race with very low centers of gravity perform devastating forward rolls, simulating a bowling-ball effect? I bet so!
“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”
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Olorin2607
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Dec 10 2013, 6:29pm
Post #16 of 37
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It's as unlikely as in AUJ but not impossible. Legolas is an elf with many years of combat experience and training.
When he can walk on snow, kill a mumak in the way done in ROTK or get down that spiderweb as seen in the Trailers for DOS then he can step on dwarf heads while they are riding down a river.
And just as a reminder: you have not seen yet how exactly it plays out so why ruin everything else thinking of just that one sequence?
And a barrel rolling crashing orcs isn't impossible as well ( BTW: It is not Bombur himself I think who rolls just him in his barrel!!) It might not kill them but kick them out of the way.
(This post was edited by Nagini6 on Dec 10 2013, 6:30pm)
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wasscally wabbit
Lindon
Dec 10 2013, 6:30pm
Post #17 of 37
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No human could possibly do the things we will see Legolas and Bombur do in this movie. It just throws believability out the window.
Soooooo very true. Until you schooled me, I completely forgot Legolas and Bombur were human. I made the exact same mistakes with Chewbacca, C3PO and R2D2. Until a Star Wars expert straightened me out, it never occurred to me they were human, either.
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Bombadil
Gondolin
Dec 10 2013, 6:32pm
Post #18 of 37
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one reviewers said
"Bombur is my HERO"
after THIS incredible stunt..
Bombur is
Bomby's Bosom Buddy
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ecthelionsbeard
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Dec 10 2013, 6:40pm
Post #19 of 37
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The concepts of bowling balls and dwarf hopping just scream 'bonkerishly silly' in my mind. But in all fairness, I suppose I will wait to see the movie before making final judgment. It's possible they might be executed so well 'visually' that even if the concepts are implausible to the extreme, my occasional frustrations with Pete's directorial decisions might be lessened. Let's hope more than marginally here. I was really looking forward to the barrel rapids sequence  (still am) Maybe I just care too much for these movies. I want so badly for them to be good. There are just things Pete does that seem SO needless.
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PoorFatBombur
Lindon
Dec 10 2013, 6:44pm
Post #20 of 37
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Wait... bowling Bombur and head skipping Legolas?...
Oh no... what did I miss?
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Fili
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Dec 10 2013, 6:46pm
Post #21 of 37
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All debating decide, I don't want to try and change your mind, or anyone else's in this thread. If you expect to be disappointed, let that stand.
And people really shouldn't give anyone else too much guff about this, arguing that these expectations are a self-fulfilling prophecy. That argument works both ways, which is kind of the point of this thread: to see how many overall expectations are met vs. how many are defied.
“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”
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Fili
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Dec 10 2013, 6:48pm
Post #22 of 37
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Your ears have been burning, haven't they? Probably as much as Sebastian the Hedgehog's!
Poor Fili's ears never burn enough...
“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”
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ecthelionsbeard
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Dec 10 2013, 6:53pm
Post #23 of 37
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For anyone who has seen the film...
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how did the Bombur bowling ball bits and Legolas dwarf hopping bits play?
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arithmancer
Hithlum
Dec 10 2013, 7:01pm
Post #24 of 37
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The poster was asked for a prediction, and gave it. I am sure s/he knows his/her own expectations of the film better than any of us. What are we trying to accomplish by arguing? I think the OP's idea of having us all go on record explaining what we are thinking, to then see whether/how our views will change, is a fun one. But implicit in the idea is that there is no wrong answer at this point! None of us have seen it.
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Eye's on Guard
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Dec 10 2013, 7:06pm
Post #25 of 37
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I haven't seen the film, but my guess the "bowling ball" moment is the result of his barrel being thrown across the river as seen in the trailers. I'm fine with him knocking over some orcs from inside a barrel, but who would be strong enough to launch him through the air and why would they do that anyway?
"When you think of the great Battle of Pelennor, do not forget the Battle of Dale. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador! There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now only hope to return from the victory here to ruin and ash. But that has been averted -- because I met Thorin Oakenshield one evening on the edge of spring not far from Bree. A chance-meeting, as we say in Middle-earth."
- Gandalf
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