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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The DOS Expectation Showdown!
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Dec 10 2013, 5:30am

Post #1 of 26 (1115 views)
The DOS Expectation Showdown! Can't Post

Hello Ringers! It is I, Fili: the hot dwarf who gets no chicks!

Over the past couple of weeks, we've clamored and cavorted, and turned the Hobbit Movie Discussion forum into a spoiler-fueled octagon. Dreams have been smashed, egos have been bruised, and carpel tunnel still rampages on.

Now, categorizing and dividing people into two sides is crude by nature, but is sometimes best for engaging in broad discussion. For the most part, there are two categories of opinion, or "sides," if you will, duking it out right now.

First, lets dispel some myths that the two sides have about each other. For now, lets refer to both as side A and B.

How Side A Appears to Side B:

"These movies are a disgrace! Jackson is ruining Tolkien and his past LOTR films with all these horrible changes! Everything should be like the original book! CGI is cartoony crap and should never be used! Peter Lucas!!!"

How Side B Appears to Side A:

"Its PJ, baby! He can do no wrong! Let Bilbo fight the Battle of Five Armies by himself against Space Mutants! The critics all like it, and all the ones that don't are fat boring jerks! PJ is like Tywin Lannister: he craps gold!"

Now these are clearly extremes, and lets not indulge in any of that hyperbole.

Instead, lets be constructive and go on record by answering the following:

Overall, given what you know already, do you expect to be pleased or disappointed by Desolation of Smaug?

You can qualify your answer however you like, but in the end, its a pretty straight-forward, one-way-or-the-other answer to this question.

Once you answer this question, we can then begin to have an even more interesting discussion once you've seen it, for then we will have a new question to answer:

Did the film meet your expectation?

I can't speak for everyone, but I'm going to be REALLY curious to see how many of you come away from the movie with a reaction that differs from what you expected. If someone expected to be disappointed, and came away pleased as punch, I REALLY want to hear what that person has to say. Likewise, if someone expected to really enjoy the film, but then leaves the theater feeling like PJ ran over his/her dog, I REALLY want to hear what that person has to say.

So...dare you go on record, here and now?

So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.


Dec 10 2013, 5:39am

Post #2 of 26 (739 views)
Pleased [In reply to] Can't Post

I've become pretty good at adjusting my expectations, so I anticipate that in the end I'll be able to look past egregious alterations, accepting the film for what it is and enjoying it.

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


Dec 10 2013, 5:47am

Post #3 of 26 (747 views)
Disappointed [In reply to] Can't Post

Which is based purely on what I've read.

I would love to come out of the movie being proved wrong, but I have a sense I will be massively disappointed as I was with AUJ possibly more so.


Dec 10 2013, 5:55am

Post #4 of 26 (709 views)
IT ALL DEPENDS [In reply to] Can't Post

on how many legs Smaug has. Yes - this - nothing else matters .....

Tol Eressea

Dec 10 2013, 6:01am

Post #5 of 26 (707 views)
My opinion will change with multiple viewings: [In reply to] Can't Post

Release night viewing: "OOooo pretty... I'm very pleased. But why did PJ change this, this, that other one, and this. I don't like those changes. Also, it's past 3am and I am very tired."

Subsequent viewings: "Okay, I get why he changed those things, and I may even like his change to this. It actually worked quite well in the movie. But I still dont think he needed to change that one. I'm still upset over that one with the thing."

(keep in mind that I haven't been actively seeking out spoilers, just reading what catches my eye on the Hobbit board, so I don't know what this, this, and the other thing are)

..The land of long-forgotten name:
......no man may ever anchor near;
..No steering star his hope may aim,
......for nether Night its marches drear,
..And waters wide no sail may tame,
......with shores encircled dark and sheer.

..O! Haven where my heart would be!
......the waves beat upon thy bar
..For ever echo endlessly,
......when longing leads thy thought afar

The Mitch King

Dec 10 2013, 6:34am

Post #6 of 26 (681 views)
Disappointed [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean, NO Smaug and Laketown or White Council?? Just Gandalf battling AZOG(?????) before Sauron, the black hole, whoops Gandy and leaves him in a CAGE(????) while Smaug battles 13 DWARVES after taking Erebor without a challenge in AUJ???? I love Peter Jackson and the Lord of the Rings movie but could they seriously not give us a climax from the book? There's also some Bolg/Legolas fight in Laketown whatever thats worth.... I'm seriously worried going into Thursday night's show.


Dec 10 2013, 7:07am

Post #7 of 26 (645 views)
Great part about not going to extremes. [In reply to] Can't Post

Some are too easily willing to accuse others of either being haters or fanboys. Both is really uneccessary.

I am going in the movie being very happen to see Tauriel, for example. I really think she might give what IS missing imho from Tolkien (no matter how many copies he sold). And that is more depth to the characters, especially the Elves and - yes - a good female character.

I am worried about the ending... knowing how it will end it may ease the shock.

Maybe it will work as it is such a drastic cliffhanger... in the sense of "if we do make a cliffhanger, let's go the full way".

TABA then really has to deliver and WORK with Smaug being at the beginning (most of the last year I thought they will move Smaug to TABA, since PB talked in an interview about how important it is to have it and what follows after together... but I always thought there would be more DG in DoS).

I am pumped!

All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


Dec 10 2013, 7:13am

Post #8 of 26 (631 views)
Does Pumped = Expect to be Pleased? // [In reply to] Can't Post


So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.


Dec 10 2013, 7:17am

Post #9 of 26 (634 views)
Fili... [In reply to] Can't Post

having seen the film for yourself, how are the special FX? Particularly regarding the barrel rapids, Dol Guldor, Bolg and Azog. Do these sequences and characters look and feel real or do they suffer from a fake CGI/cartoony look?

(This post was edited by ecthelionsbeard on Dec 10 2013, 7:18am)


Dec 10 2013, 7:27am

Post #10 of 26 (618 views)
Are You Asking Me Because I'm IN The Film?* [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, as shocking as it may seem, Kili kept covering my eyes and ears at the premiere, and I haven't been able to get another ticket until Thursday night!

So yeah, I couldn't tell ya.

*Not actually or affiliated with Dean O'Gorman

So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.

(This post was edited by Fili on Dec 10 2013, 7:28am)


Dec 10 2013, 7:35am

Post #11 of 26 (594 views)
Wasn't that your review on the homepage?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Or was that another 'Fili' who posted it. I thought you saw the movie! If you're the wrong 'Fili' then my bad! I am just concerned about the quality of the FX work particularly in Dol Goldur, the barrel rapids scene and Azog and Bolg.


Dec 10 2013, 7:59am

Post #12 of 26 (575 views)
I think it does. [In reply to] Can't Post

At least I am very open minded to be transferred to Middle-earth. If that happens in will most definitely be pleased :)

All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


Dec 10 2013, 8:21am

Post #13 of 26 (570 views)
I see it today at midnight and I must say I am very enthousiastic [In reply to] Can't Post

I expect to really love it visually, be blown away by some scenes, and even though I'm sure there will be bits I don't like and wish they were different, I figure I will be quite pleased by what I saw when leaving the cinema.

I was rather disapointed when first saw AUJ, but I have come to really like it this past year, because the few time I rewatched it I knew what to expect and could enjoy the beautiful pictures, the good scenes like riddle in the dark, and skip the ones which annoy me like the first warg chase...

So now I only expect to like the things I liked in AuJ even more in DoS, even if I know the general feeling and story will never match neither the one of the Lord of the Rings film (espacially FotR) neither the one of the original book.

(This post was edited by Ffnir on Dec 10 2013, 8:24am)


Dec 10 2013, 9:53am

Post #14 of 26 (538 views)
I am worried [In reply to] Can't Post

But I think I will be pleased with the movie. I worry too much sometimes Wink

Boromir: One does not simply walk into Mordor...

Gandalf: FLY, YOU FOOLS!


Dec 10 2013, 12:53pm

Post #15 of 26 (491 views)
I think I will be pleased [In reply to] Can't Post

Though I wish I could be going into it without having read any spoilers, etc., like I did last year.

I think the work PJ, the cast and crew put into these films is phenomenal and incredibly creative, and I love the story so far.

Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea

Dec 10 2013, 1:20pm

Post #16 of 26 (478 views)
I know I'm going to love the film [In reply to] Can't Post

Because it's a film adaptation done by folks who truly love this world. I share their enthusiasm without hamstringing their efforts by demanding they deliver the personal movie that runs in my head when I read the books.

I know the next time I read the book I am going to love the book. Not as much as I love LOTR because that book was written for adults and has a more developed feel to me, but I will love being back in Tolkien's written world, following Bilbo's story of his adventures with the King Under the Mountain.


The only thing I worry about is the spiders. Unsure I don'ts like spiders, precious....


Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

The Shire

Dec 10 2013, 1:29pm

Post #17 of 26 (474 views)
I thought I was really going to enjoy AUJ.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...until the studio decided to preview the six clips. Once I saw 'The Goblin Chase', I decided there and then that this film would considerably disappoint me.

I have a cinema one hundred yards from me. I went to see AUJ once. I didn't stay for the credits. It was even worse than I feared. Much worse. I'm amazed that it got a 'rottentomatoes' overall review of over 50%. I haven't seen the EE yet - why put myself in the way of yet more misery?

Now there's 'The Desolation Of Smaug' (gulp!). I suppose I will have to go and see it. To be fair, the trailers look good, I'm conflicted. I want PJ to be successful, but he's lost my confidence.

I'm confidently expecting 'DOS' to be better than 'Prometheus'. Anything beyond that is a bonus.

'But ere long it escaped our skill, and we dared not continue the hunt; for we were drawing nigh to Dol Guldur, and that is still a very evil place; we do not go that way'


Dec 10 2013, 1:32pm

Post #18 of 26 (470 views)
Going to see it tonight [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think I've ever approached any movie of this franchise with as mixed feelings as this one. I'm still excited, but there's a part of me genuinely afraid I'm not going to like it, or at least not going to like it as much as I've liked all the LOTR films and AUJ. I've seen much in trailers and tv spots that I actually look forward to, but then there are things I've read about that I dread seeing. I guess I'll just have to keep trusting PJ because so far he's never let me down. There are aspects in all the movies that I'm not crazy about but nothing that would have ruined them for me.

The Red Avenger

Dec 10 2013, 2:23pm

Post #19 of 26 (452 views)
There's also a side C [In reply to] Can't Post

The ones who think a movie is a movie and the books will always be untouched but actually reserve judgment until THEY'VE ACTUALLY SEEN IT!

Grey Havens

Dec 10 2013, 2:25pm

Post #20 of 26 (456 views)
I expect to be delighted. [In reply to] Can't Post

I liked AUJ on my initial viewing, and it only grew on me on repeat viewings. I expect DoS will give me more of what I liked about AUJ, only more/better:

- Thorin and Bilbo (both actors, and the relationship as developed in AUJ, were highlights for me - I think seeing Thorin and Thranduil scenes will be great, as will seeing some of the moments Bilbo will have in DoS like the spiders and barrel escape)
- Middle Earth (loved all the ME locations in AUJ, and DoS will take us to so many more new places - Mirkwood, Beorn, Elf kingdom, Dol Guldur, Laketown)
- Amazing CG realizations of fantasy creatures - Gollum was great in AUJ, In DoS, I can't wait to see Smaug!


Grey Havens

Dec 10 2013, 2:42pm

Post #21 of 26 (439 views)
I'm not saying I WILL be delighted. [In reply to] Can't Post

I am expressing that this is the expectation with which I will be entering the theater on Saturday, based on a combination of my opinion of AUJ, and critic's reviews of DoS (I have avoided all newer visual spoilers - not seeing any of the TV spots, B Roll footage, etc. that have come out in the past month, and not hearing the soundtrack). .Smile I could be wrong (in which case, as the OP suggests, I will be able to discuss why the movie was not all that I hoped it would be).


Dec 10 2013, 4:37pm

Post #22 of 26 (414 views)
Side C? Puh-lease... [In reply to] Can't Post

Everyone forms expectations. Its actually necessary and helpful to form them, as long as you keep them reasonable.

But yes, one should reserve FINAL judgement until they've seen it. That's the whole point of this thread: record your expectation now, and let us compare with your final judgement after you've seen it.

So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.

The Red Avenger

Dec 10 2013, 5:15pm

Post #23 of 26 (399 views)
I stand by it... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't fall into either category. I am not a Purist. I am not a PJ fanboy. What am is a realist. I understand that movies are different from books. I also understand that the films have scenes that bother me. I also miss parts of the books that I wish were in the film's. Merry's night-time walk in Bree. The Witchking confronting Gandalf at the gates of Mina's Tiriith (some version of which appears in the SEE but not nearly as powerful as it is in the books)

What do I expect? I hope to see many familiar scenes from the book realised on screen, I hope to entertained. I hope to be surprised, I want to enjoy the film for what it is. An adaptation of a beloved book. I really want to see stuff Tolkien wrote about but appears off page like Dol Guldur. I want to see fleshing out of characters that are mere ciphers in the book. I doubt I'll get everything I want but you can't please all of the people all of the time and unlike some I accept that

Na Vedui

Dec 10 2013, 6:23pm

Post #24 of 26 (390 views)
Some things I expect, some I don't [In reply to] Can't Post

On the basis of spoilers so far, I am pretty confident that I will enjoy revisiting the old characters, meeting the new ones, seeing all the places and hearing the music.
I am not sure how much there will be in the way of character moments for any individual. More will be better, by and large (I don't object on principle to all additions/changes but dislike "out of character" moments). I am not "expecting" here , I simply don't know what we'll get, other than odd things that have come out in spoilers. The reviews have been contradictory about this side of things.
I will enjoy action sequences, even longish ones, if they have good choreography and/or good character beats, not if they blur past so fast that I can't see who, what or how. This could go either way. Parts of AUJ were a bit iffy for me in that respect.
There may or may not be "ouch" moments in the script. Probably a few. Being a fairly old-fashioned Brit, I tend to wince at any wording that is too contemporary, Transatlantic or AntipodeanCrazy. There have been a few such moments in most of the LOTR/Hobbit films, inevitably, I guess, when they are being scripted in NZ. So I'm used to living with that.
My jury will be out on Kili/Tauriel/Legolas until I've seen the film. I am not "anti" it per se, nor anti there being a Tauriel; whether it's good for me depends on how they play it. But either way, t's only one ingredient in the soup, so I doubt it will be a make-or-break for me.
The "cliffhanger" side of it doesn't bother me at all - all the more fun in TABA.
I am pretty confident that overall it will be worth my while going to the cinema to see DOS, while being aware that there may be bad patches if the action (which seems to be frequent) is not well handled or pushes out too many defining moments from the book.


Dec 10 2013, 6:32pm

Post #25 of 26 (383 views)
Maybe You Should Reread My Post [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not asking people to identify as a purist or a fanboy. In fact, I specifically singled those characterizations out as hyperbolic BS.

I'm simply asking: OVERALL, do you expect to be pleased or disappointed.

And I'm guessing by your second paragraph, overall you expect to be pleased. Is that a fair assessment?

So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.

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