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a.s.
Doriath
Dec 9 2007, 3:27pm
Post #1 of 26
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Chapter 7: In the House of Tom B--filling in the corners
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Just some things I didn't find a place to "plug in" in my previous posts:
Is that enough for us? Is the supper ready?’
‘It is,’ said Goldberry; ‘but the guests perhaps are not?’
Tom clapped his hands and cried: ‘Tom, Tom! your guests are tired, and you had near forgotten! Come now, my merry friends, and Tom will refresh you! You shall clean grimy hands, and wash your weary faces; cast off your muddy cloaks and comb out your tangles!’
He opened the door, and they followed him down a short passage and round a sharp turn. They came to a low room with a sloping roof (a penthouse, it seemed, built on to the north end of the house). Its walls were of clean stone, but they were mostly covered with green hanging mats and yellow curtains. The floor was flagged, and strewn with fresh green rushes. There were four deep mattresses, each piled with white blankets, laid on the floor along one side. Against the opposite wall was a long bench laden with wide earthenware basins, and beside it stood brown ewers filled with water, some cold, some steaming hot. There were soft green slippers set ready beside each bed.
1) Does Tom's house always have four guest beds with four pairs of slippers waiting beside them? Comments on how Tom's house "works" for visitors?
Though the hobbits ate, as only famished hobbits can eat, there was no lack. The drink in their drinking-bowls seemed to be clear cold water, yet it went to their hearts like wine and set free their voices.
2) Some interesting allusions in this short text. Comments?
At last Frodo spoke: ‘Did you hear me calling, Master, or was it just chance that brought you at that moment?’
Tom stirred like a man shaken out of a pleasant dream. ‘Eh, what?’ said he. ‘Did I hear you calling? Nay, I did not hear: I was busy singing. Just chance brought me then, if chance you call it. It was no plan of mine, though I was waiting for you. We heard news of you, and learned that you were wandering. We guessed you’d come ere long down to the water: all paths lead that way, down to Withywindle
3) Who is the "we" Tom is referring to? How did they hear news of the hobbits? Comment on "It was no plan of mine, though I was waiting for you"?
Water dripped down from the thatched eaves above. Before they had finished breakfast the clouds had joined into an unbroken roof, and a straight grey rain came softly and steadily down. Behind its deep curtain the Forest was completely veiled.
4) Just pointing out the interesting use of "grey...rain...curtain...veil" in this passage. Frodo has not yet had his dream about a curtain of rain like silver glass.
The hobbits listened with delight; and Frodo was glad in his heart, and blessed the kindly weather, because it delayed them from departing. The thought of going had been heavy upon him from the moment he awoke; but he guessed now that they would not go further that day.
The upper wind settled in the West
5) We've got the West Wind.
The hobbits sat still before him, enchanted; and it seemed as if, under the spell of his words, the wind had gone, and the clouds had dried up, and the day had been withdrawn, and darkness had come from East and West, and all the sky was filled with the light of white stars.
Whether the morning and evening of one day or of many days had passed Frodo could not tell. He did not feel either hungry or tired, only filled with wonder. The stars shone through the window and the silence of the heavens seemed to be round him. He spoke at last out of his wonder and a sudden fear of that silence:
‘Who are you, Master?’ he asked.
6) Is Tom affecting time? Or is he affecting the hobbits' perception of time? How much time passes in "reality" (I mean, in the timeline of the events unfolding in the Second Age of ME)? Why is Frodo afraid of "that silence"?
He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.’
A shadow seemed to pass by the window, and the hobbits glanced hastily through the panes. When they turned again, Goldberry stood in the door behind, framed in light. She held a candle, shielding its flame from the draught with her hand; and the light flowed through it, like sunlight through a white shell.
7) Comments on what Tolkien is doing in this lovely passage? Have we (or will we) see this image again, of a hand enclosing light with the light shining through?
After they had eaten, Goldberry sang many songs for them, songs that began merrily in the hills and fell softly down into silence; and in the silences they saw in their minds pools and waters wider than any they had known, and looking into them they saw the sky below them and the stars like jewels in the depths
8) Goldberry also tells stories to the hobbits. Any thoughts on how Goldberry's stories compare to Tom's?
But Tom now seemed wide awake and plied them with questions. He appeared already to know much about them and all their families, and indeed to know much of all the history and doings of the Shire down from days hardly remembered among the hobbits themselves. It no longer surprised them; but he made no secret that he owed his recent knowledge largely to Farmer Maggot, whom he seemed to regard as a person of more importance than they had imagined. ‘There’s earth under his old feet, and clay on his fingers; wisdom in his bones, and both his eyes are open,’ said Tom. It was also clear that Tom had dealings with the Elves, and it seemed that in some fashion, news had reached him from Gildor concerning the flight of Frodo.
9) For a guy so many of us think is some kind of spirtit incarnated into ME, Tom sure knows a lot of people, gathers a lot of news, and keeps current with events unfolding "in real time" in ME (or at least his corner of ME). Any thoughts about this aspect of Tom?
He said this more than once; and he advised them to pass barrows by on the west-side, if they chanced to stray near one.
10) Comments on Tom's advice about walking around the barrows on the west-side only?
Next: wrap up, and my thoughts about Tom B.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
(This post was edited by a.s. on Dec 9 2007, 3:29pm)
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a.s.
Doriath
Dec 9 2007, 8:13pm
Post #2 of 26
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my thoughts about Tom...and Tom's house
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Rather than start a whole new thread, I'll just wrap up here.
We've had many interesting discussions--both the current one and the past ones--about Tom and his House. Everyone can agree on one thing: Tom is an enigma. Since this is my thread and my thoughts and opinions, I'll just say I don't think we're going to come up with any definitive answers to Tom, since Tolkien wrote him intentionally to be puzzling to us. Tolkien spent way too much time deliberately writing Tom as an enigma for us to hope to "figure him out" in any but the most subjective ways, ways which amount to our opinions of the hints and clues dropped into the text (and in letters, etc) by the author.
Here, then, are my impressions/thoughts/ideas about Tom. And Tom's House.
1) Tom is Arda in some fundamental way. I would say Tom is "nature", except that he says: ‘I am no weather-master’—and I would think “Nature” would be described as a weather-master, but the Earth itself, while it contributes to the weather, can’t be described that way. According to Goldberry he is Master, though, of "wood, water, and hill", and while those things aren't "owned" by Tom, they seem to obey his wishes, or rules. Which makes sense: if you are Master, you have Rules. Tom, in my opinion, is a visible manifestation of Arda-made.
2) I don’t think he is specifically an “incarnation” of some spiritual force, because he does magical things with his body. His body doesn’t obey certain fundamental rules of embodiment: he hops between rain drops, for instance. He bounds down from his House to the Barrows in the blink of an eye (we’ll get to that in the next chapter). So I carefully say he is a “visible manifestation” of Arda-made (or a portion of Arda-made).
3) I think there are visible manifestations of Arda (ie: “local deities”) everywhere there are undisturbed parts of Middle Earth.
4) I think Tom is “really there”. That is, I don’t think he is in the imagination of the hobbits. For one thing, the Elves know him, Maggot knows him, and Gandalf knows him. And all those can probably also find his House.
5) I think Goldberry is a visible (and auditory) manifestation of water. It would be an interesting paper to write, if anyone ever gets to it (maybe someone has): if Goldberry is Water, and Tom is “Master” of “wood, water and hill”, then Tom is Goldberry’s Master, too. And she is his wife. And that is a very Tolkien thing, maybe...I haven’t figured all this out, obviously. <grin>
6) I think Tom/Arda (“space”) and Time were created at the same moment, because ME is really our Earth and we exist in space-time. I think Tom is able to influence time, in some way. He walks between raindrops. He tells stories backwards. He can make many mornings and evenings pass in story while in the rest of the world time is moving more slowly.
7) I think Tom is able to send dreams or influence them, and see dreams that other people are having. “In the night little folk wake up in the darkness, and sleep after light has come! Ring a ding dillo! Wake now, my merry friends! Forget the nightly noises!” Tom said, when he woke up the hobbits. But he sent them to bed the night before saying: “Sleep till the morning-light, rest on the pillow! Heed no nightly noise!”.
8) I think Tom’s House is a liminal place, literally a place between mortal life and the afterlife. It’s magic in a way that Lorien isn’t. For one thing, I don’t think that the House is ever exactly the same from the inside if you are lucky enough to get inside. There aren’t always four hobbit-sized mattresses with hobbit-sized slippers waiting beside them. Once you get inside Lorien by permission, the inside is the same to everyone allowed there. Inside the House of Tom Bombadil you’ll find time is distorted and you have visions and dreams, and even in waking moments you will hear stories that transport you in some way across space and time, and back again.
9) I don’t think just everyone finds a house at the end of the chalky path there on the edge of the Old Forest.
Just some things I’ve thought about in this chapter. I hope you enjoyed it. Even though I cringe when I read the poems, I still love this chapter and think it only gets more fascinating as the years go by.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Dec 9 2007, 8:37pm
Post #3 of 26
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An excellent week of discussion! I am behind again (and therefore it didn't matter to me when you started posting  ) and have much still to read, but this wrap-up post is fantastic.
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Dec. 3-9 for "In the House of Tom Bombadil".
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SilentLion
Ossiriand
Dec 9 2007, 8:50pm
Post #4 of 26
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Thanks A.S., for leading the discussion this week
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This chapter and the ones before and after it are difficult for me, because it is in some ways very different than the rest of the books. I will confess that in previous readings I haven't been a huge fan of them. I haven't been a real active poster this week, in part because I'm very unsure whether I have good answers for the questions posed. But I really enjoyed reading your questions and thinking about them, and reading all the excellent discussions.
After this reading I can say that, although I think P.J. was wise to omit Bombadil from the movie version, I am glad that Tolkien wrote these chapters. In addition to the fact that I think Tolkien just plain liked Tom Bombadil and wanted him in there, these chapters serve several purposes in the narrative. We continue to explore the characters of the Hobbit; we have dreams that foreshadow many events (some of which, like Gandalf's ecape, may have already happened); we take a break from the pursuit by the Nazgul, before that becomes deadly serious business; and we continue to see the pattern develop of the heroes receiving help from many unexpected sources.
But I think the most important thing Tolkien is saying with the Bombadil chapters is this: Life is infinitely complex, and there is always much more happening around us than we can begin to fathom. Despite the fact, that we are in the middle of a Life, the Universe and Everything steel-cage tag-team battle between Good and Evil, that isn't all there is. There are other things in the world, Tom and Old Man Willow, for example, that give little heed to events of the moment that seem so urgent to the participants. Compared to Tom himself, even the outcome of epic quests and battles may seem like things of little permanence. They're all just brief dreams or 'nightly noises' in the really big scheme of things.
With this chapter, Tolkien has given us the answer to critics who say Tolkien takes everything too seriously.
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sador
Gondolin
Dec 9 2007, 9:31pm
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I haven't got my book at hand, so I misquote from memory. But I think in the Council of Elrond, one of the Elves (Erestor, Glorfindel, or possibly Elrond himself) says something like: "Such power to defy him (Sauron) is not in us, unless it is in the Earth itself. And we have seen Sauron can torture trhe very hills..." Do I remember correctly? If so, and if we accept your thesis, this is no more than reiterating what Galdor (?) said "Iarwain will fall, last as he was first. And then darkness will come."
What I find difficult about your thesis, is that 'the spirit of Arda' sounds to more like the way Tolkien saw Morgoth. Or do you think that Eru gave Arda some intrinsic life-force, to encounter the eldest Ainu's ambitions?
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a.s.
Doriath
Dec 9 2007, 10:48pm
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We will return to Tom, at the Council
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But many things you are thinking about Tom based on the discussion at the Council of Elrond are the things that I ponder when I try to get my mind around Tom. For instance, when Elrond says:
"I had forgotten Bombadil"
this leads me to realize just how old Bombadil is, and how "other" he is, to the Elves. He's not an "important person" in the sense of someone who should be called to the Council to discuss what should happen to the Ring. He is totally something different.
And when Elrond says:
"...even then [he] was older than the old. That was not then his name. Iarwain Ben-adar we called him, oldest and fatherless"
that makes me wonder about a living creature who can be called "fatherless". And who can be called "oldest" by the Elves.
And when Gandalf says:
"Could that power [ie: the Dark Lord and all his power bent towards the House of Tom B] be defied by Bombadil alone? I think not. I think that in the end, if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Last as he was First, and then Night will come"
Gandalf is talking about the end of the world, the End of Arda, the final darkness. And of course, at the end of the world, the spirit of the world will also cease.
So when you say:
'the spirit of Arda' sounds to more like the way Tolkien saw Morgoth. Or do you think that Eru gave Arda some intrinsic life-force, to encounter the eldest Ainu's ambitions?
I can only say that I don't think Bombadil is anything like Morgoth, or exactly like any of the Ainur. He is entirely "other", and yes, I think he is bound up in some way with Arda itself, and "lives" and "dies" when Arda does.
Just some thoughts. Thanks for yours.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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a.s.
Doriath
Dec 9 2007, 10:49pm
Post #7 of 26
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"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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a.s.
Doriath
Dec 9 2007, 10:54pm
Post #8 of 26
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brief dreams in the bigger House of things? :-)
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There are other things in the world, Tom and Old Man Willow, for example, that give little heed to events of the moment that seem so urgent to the participants. Compared to Tom himself, even the outcome of epic quests and battles may seem like things of little permanence. They're all just brief dreams or 'nightly noises' in the really big scheme of things.
Nice summary!!
With this chapter, Tolkien has given us the answer to critics who say Tolkien takes everything too seriously.
Maybe he takes them seriously but lightly, at the same time!
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
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Dec 10 2007, 1:21am
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First, I'll start off with a thank-you, a.s. - I finally understand the meaning of "liminal"! There's a lot in this chapter, you could almost go for another week...  But thank you for bringing out the highlights!
And I'll tackle some of these questions:
1) I'd like to know how many feather-beds Tom keeps stored up; and, why slippers for Hobbits? I'm assuming they've some special "property" to them, to help soothe long-travelling shoeless feet! Also note: there is no class differentiation here.
2) The clear water that "went to their hearts like wine" reminds me of Glorfindel's draught, which refreshed the Hobbits on the run, and may even be related to miruvor.
3) News travels fast indeed, if Tom heard of the four from Maggot, and from Gildor! Of course, they could have sent messages by Fox .
7) Ah, that translucent hand! It brings to mind Gandalf's, after his return from death, when he meets up with Aragorn and the others again: "A gleam of sun through fleeting clouds fell on his hands, which lay now upturned on his lap: they seemed to be filled with light as a cup is with water." Light and water, and light shining through the River-daughter.
8) Doesn't it seem like Goldberry's stories give them an impression of the Mirrormere?
10) West is west and east is east, and never walk widdershins round the kirk! The Western side offers mystical "protection", even after all these ages.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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weaver
Gondolin
Dec 10 2007, 1:37am
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I'm so glad you posted something about those slippers!
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I was kind of wondering if hobbits would actually use slippers, but maybe they would feel good after all that wandering around barefoot in the forest...
Some wandering thoughts on the rest of your questions...
I love the line "It was no plan of mine, though I was waiting for you". Tolkien does give all kinds of hints here that Tom has access to knowledge about the hobbits, but never tells you the source. (My guess is the fox...sounds like the kind of source Tom would have...)
I had never noticed the references to grey rain curtains here, prior to Frodo's dream. But since many dreams begin with images from real life, it fits that Frodo might start his dream with that image of a real rainstorm that had a "curtain-like" sense to it. Then again, it might not be a real rainstorm at all, given the hobbits whereabouts at this point...
Tolkien does a lot of pointing out that people aren't always what they seem -- this time, we got Tom doing that about Farmer Maggot. I like the kinship between Maggot and Tom -- they are both men of the land, who would recognize a kindred spirit in each other, and Maggot is a "master" in his own way as well.
Tom's timeless talk with the hobbits is sort of the Tolkien version of "My Dinner with Andre..." There are people who just through conversation can carry you away, and connect you with wonder like that. I've been lucky to have encountered a few along my way. Time does sort of stop in one of those conversations, or rather, when you listen to someone like that. I know there has been some scholarly work done on Tolkien's treatment of time -- does anyone know if Tom ever been looked at as one of the ways in which Tolkien plays with the theme of time?
As far as why Frodo is frightened, at the end of this talk, I think it's just that he's been drifting along with Tom, and then suddenly realizes that he's been taken far away from his reality -- this is a really poor analogy, but it's like the moment when you learn to ride a bike and think your father or mother is still hanging on, and then look back to see that they let go. That's when a lot of kids fall. It's scary to be "out there" without any support, and that's what Frodo tunes into here.
Nice odds and ends, and nice discussion this week -- thanks so much for the excellent leadership!
Weaver
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Penthe
Mithlond
Dec 10 2007, 3:08am
Post #11 of 26
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lovely thoughts, a.s. a dillo.
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I don't have anything to add.
Thank you for a wonderfully refreshing week of discussion. I has coincided with a very humid week here in RL so it's been a pleasure to think of cool rain and bean plants.
I quite like cheese, you know.
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a.s.
Doriath
Dec 10 2007, 3:40am
Post #12 of 26
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know there has been some scholarly work done on Tolkien's treatment of time -- does anyone know if Tom ever been looked at as one of the ways in which Tolkien plays with the theme of time?
Verlyn Flieger, in her "A Question of Time", discusses Tolkien's time-travel story (or stories, "The Lost Road" as well as "Notion Club Papers") and notes in the chapter titled "Frodo's Dreams" that Tolkien was working on Notion Club the same time he was revising much of LOTR. She speculates that it's possible that one influenced the other, particularly in this chapter when Frodo dreams about Orthanc, and the next where he has his rain curtain dream.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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a.s.
Doriath
Dec 10 2007, 3:44am
Post #13 of 26
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7) Ah, that translucent hand! It brings to mind Gandalf's, after his return from death, when he meets up with Aragorn and the others again: "A gleam of sun through fleeting clouds fell on his hands, which lay now upturned on his lap: they seemed to be filled with light as a cup is with water." Light and water, and light shining through the River-daughter.
I think that's a great similarity!
I also think about how Sam thought of Tom, in Shelob's lair, where it was dark. And wished Tom was there. And then suddenly he thought of Galadriel's light, which Frodo holds up in his hand.
And of course, it also reminds me of Gandalf's words about Frodo becoming like a glass filled with light.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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a.s.
Doriath
Dec 10 2007, 3:48am
Post #14 of 26
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ah, the bean plants...we didn't discuss colors
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But seriously, lots of interesting colors in this chapter, too. And I know bean plants flower, but they wouldn't be in flower this time of year (I think), so they are green, as is so much else in this chapter. But when they ARE in flower, aren't they red?
We don't get too much else that's red. We have Tom's blue coat and eyes, but otherwise mostly green (or so it seems).
Green, yellow, and white. And grey, lots of grey.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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weaver
Gondolin
Dec 10 2007, 3:50am
Post #15 of 26
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That was the book -- Tolkien scholar brain lapse strikes again. All I could remember was the connection between dreams and time travel that Tolkien was playing with, but I hadn't connected that to Tom.
**makes note to self to check out Flieger again from the library again**
Thanks for the info!
Weaver
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Dec 10 2007, 4:37am
Post #16 of 26
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Goldberry (22), green (14), white (14), grey (8), yellow (8), blue (6), gold (4), brown (3), red (3), silver (2), Black Riders (1), brown-skinned (1), Goldberry’s (1), golden (1), pale-blue (1), silver-green (1), silver-netted (1)
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From a quiz on this chapter's words in 2005. See also the post with the results for further discussion on the words, though not of colors in particular.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Dec. 3-9 for "In the House of Tom Bombadil".
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a.s.
Doriath
Dec 10 2007, 11:10am
Post #17 of 26
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oh yeah, I'm already married. Darn.
Just kidding, but thanks for sending that. As usual, I'm in awe of your database. List. Thing.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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a.s.
Doriath
Dec 10 2007, 11:46am
Post #18 of 26
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PS: do you (or anyone) have a link to a previous color discussion?
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Can't seem to find it (I really should organize my bookmarks), but wanted to link it here. I'm sure it's come up more than once, but I'm thinking of a discussion particularly of "green".
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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Curious
Gondolin
Dec 10 2007, 9:47pm
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1) Does Tom's house always have four guest beds with four pairs of slippers waiting beside them? Comments on how Tom's house "works" for visitors?
It does seem rather convenient, doesn't it? And who does the mowing, the mending, the churning of butter, the making of cheese? Where are the cows? On the other hand, we have the same issue with the elves, or for that matter with the Shire, which is short on laborers and servants. It's hard to tell whether Tom is special, or just another in a long list of hosts who accomodate the hobbits with no visible effort. And it is hard to tell whether Tolkien would have an answer to your question. Which means I don't have an answer either, except to say that it is a good question.
Though the hobbits ate, as only famished hobbits can eat, there was no lack. The drink in their drinking-bowls seemed to be clear cold water, yet it went to their hearts like wine and set free their voices.
2) Some interesting allusions in this short text. Comments?
This sounds like the drink offered by the elves, or the entdraught offered by the ents.
At last Frodo spoke: ‘Did you hear me calling, Master, or was it just chance that brought you at that moment?’
Tom stirred like a man shaken out of a pleasant dream. ‘Eh, what?’ said he. ‘Did I hear you calling? Nay, I did not hear: I was busy singing. Just chance brought me then, if chance you call it. It was no plan of mine, though I was waiting for you. We heard news of you, and learned that you were wandering. We guessed you’d come ere long down to the water: all paths lead that way, down to Withywindle
3) Who is the "we" Tom is referring to? How did they hear news of the hobbits? Comment on "It was no plan of mine, though I was waiting for you"?
"We" refers to Tom and Goldberry, I believe. They could have heard news of the hobbits from several sources; Farmer Maggot (we know from "Bombadil Goes Boating" that the visits go both ways), Aragorn or other Rangers, Gildor or other elves, or the whispering of the trees. There are other possibilities as well.
Water dripped down from the thatched eaves above. Before they had finished breakfast the clouds had joined into an unbroken roof, and a straight grey rain came softly and steadily down. Behind its deep curtain the Forest was completely veiled.
4) Just pointing out the interesting use of "grey...rain...curtain...veil" in this passage. Frodo has not yet had his dream about a curtain of rain like silver glass.
There's a similar image of rain falling like a curtain when the hobbits return to Bree at the end of the tale. Maybe this is a curtain through which the hobbits pass on the way to Fairie when leaving the Shire, on the way back from Fairie when returning to the Shire, and on the way back to Fairie when Frodo and Bilbo once again leave the Shire.
The hobbits listened with delight; and Frodo was glad in his heart, and blessed the kindly weather, because it delayed them from departing. The thought of going had been heavy upon him from the moment he awoke; but he guessed now that they would not go further that day.
The upper wind settled in the West
5) We've got the West Wind.
So we do, and that means the storm is benevolent, I judge. The same is true, again, when the hobbits return to Bree in the face of a rain storm blowing in from the west.
The hobbits sat still before him, enchanted; and it seemed as if, under the spell of his words, the wind had gone, and the clouds had dried up, and the day had been withdrawn, and darkness had come from East and West, and all the sky was filled with the light of white stars.
Whether the morning and evening of one day or of many days had passed Frodo could not tell. He did not feel either hungry or tired, only filled with wonder. The stars shone through the window and the silence of the heavens seemed to be round him. He spoke at last out of his wonder and a sudden fear of that silence:
‘Who are you, Master?’ he asked.
6) Is Tom affecting time? Or is he affecting the hobbits' perception of time? How much time passes in "reality" (I mean, in the timeline of the events unfolding in the Second Age of ME)? Why is Frodo afraid of "that silence"?
Again, good question. Only one day passes, so apparently Tom affects the hobbits' perception of time, but I wouldn't rule anything out. I find it even more remarkable that they do not feel hungry. I would say there is some sort of enchantment going on, as described in Tolkien's essay, "On Fairy Stories." However unlike the enchantment of the elves, Tom's stories do not send the hobbits to sleep.
Frodo has many reasons to feel afraid, especially when it is dark outside. I think it is more remarkable that he did not feel fear until this moment. Perhaps in the silence he remembered his mission, and wanted Tom to start talking again so he could continue to escape into Tom's enchantment.
He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.’
A shadow seemed to pass by the window, and the hobbits glanced hastily through the panes. When they turned again, Goldberry stood in the door behind, framed in light. She held a candle, shielding its flame from the draught with her hand; and the light flowed through it, like sunlight through a white shell.
7) Comments on what Tolkien is doing in this lovely passage? Have we (or will we) see this image again, of a hand enclosing light with the light shining through?
While someone else thought of Gandalf the White, I thought of Frodo, who is described at times as almost transparent, with a light inside shining for those who could see. And there's also Glorfindel at the Ford.
After they had eaten, Goldberry sang many songs for them, songs that began merrily in the hills and fell softly down into silence; and in the silences they saw in their minds pools and waters wider than any they had known, and looking into them they saw the sky below them and the stars like jewels in the depths
8) Goldberry also tells stories to the hobbits. Any thoughts on how Goldberry's stories compare to Tom's?
Goldberry's songs fittingly relate to water, and almost sound like water. They remind me of the Mirromere, and Durin's Crown shining in the depths.
9) For a guy so many of us think is some kind of spirtit incarnated into ME, Tom sure knows a lot of people, gathers a lot of news, and keeps current with events unfolding "in real time" in ME (or at least his corner of ME). Any thoughts about this aspect of Tom?
I think other Unseen Powers are equally interested in current events, although they do not make themselves visible like Tom and Goldberry. But Tom is most interested and aware of local news, and little interested in what is happening outside of his immediate territory. In that sense he is similar to the hobbits, but also similar to the other residents of Middle-earth, who are highly territorial. Note that the Shire does, however, appear to be a part of Tom's territory, while nearby Bree is not. That's why I think of Tom as a local guardian angel of the hobbits.
He said this more than once; and he advised them to pass barrows by on the west-side, if they chanced to stray near one.
10) Comments on Tom's advice about walking around the barrows on the west-side only?
The west side is usually the best side because Sauron is in the east. The one exception to this rule is Isengard, which because of Saruman exerts an evil influence to the south of Bree, the north of Rohan, and the west of Fangorn.
Tom's advice may also relate to the information in Unfinished Tales, where we learn that the Witch-king was stationed immediately east of the Downs.
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a.s.
Doriath
Dec 10 2007, 11:06pm
Post #21 of 26
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I knew you'd like the West Wind! //
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"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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a.s.
Doriath
Dec 10 2007, 11:36pm
Post #22 of 26
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Thanks for all the contributions, here are a few I wanted to answer myself:
He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.’
A shadow seemed to pass by the window, and the hobbits glanced hastily through the panes. When they turned again, Goldberry stood in the door behind, framed in light.
I'm sure Tolkien didn't intend us to be afraid of Goldberry, and yet her placement as both the shadow which frightens the hobbits and the light which welcomes and comforts them is pretty interesting. Goldberry can be pretty scary at times, if she is "water" personified; like thunderstorms and hurricanes and tidal waves, etc. Goldberry is, after all, completely alien, whatever she is.
6)...Why is Frodo afraid of "that silence"?
I'm not sure exactly why Frodo is afraid of "that silence", but I notice that he becomes afraid when Tom stops singing/chanting/talking.
10) Comments on Tom's advice about walking around the barrows on the west-side only?
As derwyn already said, "never walk widdershins round the kirk"! It's an old superstition, to not walk counterclockwise around churches, etc. More importantly (as I understand it) the reason it was considered bad luck to walk a circle counterclockwise is because in the Northern Hemisphere the sun travels clockwise and you would be walking "anti-sunwise". If a barrow is roughly circular, passing a barrow on the west side means the hobbits are walking clockwise (or "sunwise"), which is the proper direction.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.
~~~Landrum Bolling
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Dec 11 2007, 6:41am
Post #23 of 26
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I would never have thought of this if not for Curious's wonderful comments from Oct. 2002 on the Bombadil chapters as suggestive of a knight's vigil (see in particular starting at the middle of the page, with I also believe Bombadil is not merely an entertaining detour...), but with those in mind, the chapter's closing sentences seem more significant:
Then he taught them a rhyme to sing, if they should by ill-luck fall into any danger or difficulty the next day...
When they had sung this altogether after him, he clapped them each on the shoulder with a laugh, and taking candles led them back to their bedroom.
First they repeat some phrases after Tom, and then he "clapped them each on the shoulder". From Webster's: "dub... to tap (a man) on the shoulder with a sword in conferring knighthood". Admittedly Bombadil doesn't use a sword.
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Dec. 3-9 for "In the House of Tom Bombadil".
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Curious
Gondolin
Dec 16 2007, 10:18pm
Post #24 of 26
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Interesting that he clapped each and every one on the shoulder.
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That takes some intention with four different hobbits, and makes it seem more significant.
Thanks for the blast from the past. For whatever reason, I rarely look up these old threads, but I love reading them when you bring them to our attention.
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Kimi
Forum Admin
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Dec 16 2007, 11:16pm
Post #25 of 26
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The laugh is mightier than the sword?
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Then he taught them a rhyme to sing, if they should by ill-luck fall into any danger or difficulty the next day...
When they had sung this altogether after him, he clapped them each on the shoulder with a laugh, and taking candles led them back to their bedroom.
First they repeat some phrases after Tom, and then he "clapped them each on the shoulder". From Webster's: "dub... to tap (a man) on the shoulder with a sword in conferring knighthood". Admittedly Bombadil doesn't use a sword.
He doesn't use a sword, but he does "[clap] them each on the shoulder with a laugh". Perhaps for Tom, laughter is a more fitting symbol than a sword. In this passage, Tom's laughter is entwined with the illustration of the Ring's lack of power over him:
"It seemed to grow larger as it lay for a moment on his big brown-skinned hand. Then suddenly he put it to his eye and laughed. For a second the hobbits had a vision, both comical and alarming, of his bright blue eye gleaming through a circle of gold. Then Tom put the Ring round the end of his little finger and held it up to the candlelight. For a moment the hobbits noticed nothing strange about this. Then they gasped. There was no sign of Tom disappearing!
Tom laughed again, and then he spun the Ring in the air - and it vanished with a flash. Frodo gave a cry - and Tom leaned forward and handed it back to him with a smile."
He laughs again after the incident in the mound:
".... Tom, bounding down from the mound, and laughing as he danced round them in the sunlight. One would have thought that nothing dangerous or dreadful had happened; and indeed the horror faded out of their hearts as they looked at him, and saw the merry glint in his eyes."
His laughter here heals the hobbits' spirits.
The dubbing is a fun idea, whether or not it was consciously intended by the author.
  
Promises to Keep: a novel set in 19th Century New Zealand.
The Passing of Mistress Rose
Do we find happiness so often that we should turn it off the box when it happens to sit there?
- A Room With a View
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