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Nerdanel
Ossiriand
Nov 22 2007, 8:28am
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Chapter 5: A Conspiracy Unmasked IV
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Apologies for the delay--computer meltdown.
Bathed and fed, the hobbits decide to settle down and nudge the plot forward a little. Merry accuses the other hobbits of having adventures without him and demands a full account. This is Frodo's cue to stare at the fire again. Pippin tells the story, supported by Sam. 'I should think you were making it all up,' said Merry, 'if I had not seen that black shape on the landing stage--and heard the queer sound in Maggot's voice. What do you make of it all, Frodo?'
'Cousin Frodo has been very close,' said Pippin. 'But the time has come for him to open out.' It certainly has!
Telling stories does not seem to be Frodo's strong suit. He lets Pippin tell the tale of their pursuit by Black Riders, and then lets Merry take over telling his secret plans to leave. How did he ever manage to write the book we are now discussing?
What do you think about Frodo's decision not to tell his friends that he is leaving until now? If he had determined to sneak away without telling them at all it would be easier to understand his secrecy, but that wasn't the plan. What does he gain by keeping--or trying to keep--everyone but Sam in the dark if he's going to tell them anyway. Hasn't he exposed them to unnecessary danger?
Of course, Frodo hasn't succeeded in keeping his friends in the dark at all, as Merry now reveals to him, and to us. 'I think I could help you,' said Merry quietly, 'by telling you some of it myself.'
'What do you mean?' said Frodo, looking at him anxiously.
'Just this, my dear old Frodo: you are miserable, because you do not know how to say good-bye. You meant to leave the Shire, of course. But danger has come on you sooner than you expected, and now you are making up your mind to go at once. And you don't want to. We are very sorry for you.'
Frodo opened his mouth and shut it. His look of surprise was so comical that they laughed. 'Dear old Frodo!' said Pippin. 'Did you really think you had thrown dust in all our eyes? You have not been nearly careful or clever enough for that! . . .'
'Good heavens!' said Frodo. 'I thought I had been both careful and clever!'
Merry explains that he has been watching Frodo and fearing he would take off after Bilbo ever since the old hobbit left. When Frodo protests that he must go, and his friends must let him, Pippin informs him that he and Merry are coming along.'My dear and most beloved hobbits,' said Frodo deeply moved. But I could not allow it. I decided that long ago, too. You speak of danger, but you do not understand. This is no treasure hunt, no there-and-back journey. I am flying from deadly peril into deadly peril.'
'Of course we understand,' said Merry firmly. That is why we have decided to come. We know the Ring is no laughing matter; but we are going to do our best to help you against the Enemy.' Can you remember reading this chapter for the first time? Were you surprised to learn of the conspiracy? Pleased? Relieved?
Sometimes I think it must be a wonderful thing to have such attentive friends so willing to take care of one, but on the other hand Frodo has already complained about having his comings and goings observed. I can't decide whether I am more struck by the depth of Merry's and Pippin's loving concern for Frodo here or by the footloose freedom that enables these two to drop everything and join him in his quest.
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elostirion74
Nargothrond
Nov 22 2007, 10:14am
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What do you think about Frodo's decision not to tell his friends that he is leaving until now? If he had determined to sneak away without telling them at all it would be easier to understand his secrecy, but that wasn't the plan. What does he gain by keeping--or trying to keep--everyone but Sam in the dark if he's going to tell them anyway. Hasn't he exposed them to unnecessary danger?
I think Frodo simply is dreading the moment of telling that he is leaving and so he postpones it to the last minute. This is the kind of person he is. Perhaps he also fears that they would try to keep him from going? Not to forget that Frodo has an understandable, but unhealthy habit of isolating himself and not wanting to accept the help of others. Last of all Frodo is shaken and afraid because danger has come upon him so soon, which makes him even more introvert.
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Beren IV
Mithlond
Nov 22 2007, 9:54pm
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Can you remember reading this chapter for the first time? Were you surprised to learn of the conspiracy? Pleased? Relieve
I had not read The Hobbit, but I couldn't help but think that Frodo was going into danger quite alone, and I was worried if he were going to make it. Now, at least, he's got some friends, although I was really concerned that Gandalf was still missing.
Once a paleontologist, now a botanist, will be a paleobotanist
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drogo
Menegroth
Nov 23 2007, 12:47am
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Telling stories does not seem to be Frodo's strong suit. He lets Pippin tell the tale of their pursuit by Black Riders, and then lets Merry take over telling his secret plans to leave. How did he ever manage to write the book we are now discussing?
I think Frodo doesn't appear as a storyteller much in the book itself because he is the one about whom the tales are told! Bilbo is not much of a storyteller himself in The Hobbit (there we see the Dwarves telling most of the tales), and it is only in the LOTR that we see him move from the role of the hero in tales to the chronicler of tales. He no doubt picks it up in his retirement! 
What do you think about Frodo's decision not to tell his friends that he is leaving until now? If he had determined to sneak away without telling them at all it would be easier to understand his secrecy, but that wasn't the plan. What does he gain by keeping--or trying to keep--everyone but Sam in the dark if he's going to tell them anyway. Hasn't he exposed them to unnecessary danger?
From his perspective, he is shielding them from the dangers of the Ring. He does assume that the danger is not that close at hand, so that probably allows him to let down his guard and let his friends accompany him. But it is only in hindsight that he discovers how much danger he and they were in, and he wants to keep them from doing something risky such as accompanying him outside the Shire.
Can you remember reading this chapter for the first time? Were you surprised to learn of the conspiracy? Pleased? Relieved?
I recall being relieved that the other hobbits knew and were prepared to go with him. I already liked Pippin and Merry, so I was glad that they would be joining the journey.
Sometimes I think it must be a wonderful thing to have such attentive friends so willing to take care of one, but on the other hand Frodo has already complained about having his comings and goings observed. I can't decide whether I am more struck by the depth of Merry's and Pippin's loving concern for Frodo here or by the footloose freedom that enables these two to drop everything and join him in his quest.
Interesting point; I think Frodo is more struck with the depth of their concern and appreciates having them as companions. He is in an odd position since he does not have friends who are his contemporaries, so he likes the attention he receives from the younger hobbits. It is a bit like the nobleman going off on the crusade with his younger vassals in tow.
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entmaiden
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Nov 23 2007, 12:46pm
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that Frodo and Sam didn't have to continue alone. The first time I read LOTR, I was fresh from reading The Hobbit, so at this point I was thinking it would be a similar hobbit-centric story. I did expect other creatures to appear, like the Black Riders, but in the end I was sure that hobbits would be the focus of the story. I was looking forward to going back to Rivendell, but I had no idea that the story would range as far as the lands shown on the giant maps that were part of my book.
At this point I had also begun to like Frodo a little, starting to forgive him for replacing my dear Bilbo. I was glad he had the type of friends he did, who cared enough about him to make sure he wouldn't take on his adventure by himself.
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
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Curious
Gondolin
Nov 23 2007, 3:38pm
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Telling stories does not seem to be Frodo's strong suit. He lets Pippin tell the tale of their pursuit by Black Riders, and then lets Merry take over telling his secret plans to leave. How did he ever manage to write the book we are now discussing?
He didn't, Tolkien did. But come to think of it, Tolkien was not known as a great speaker, except perhaps when reciting Beowulf. From what I have read, Tolkien spoke too quickly, and could be hard to understand. Some people are better telling stories in writing than in person.
What do you think about Frodo's decision not to tell his friends that he is leaving until now? If he had determined to sneak away without telling them at all it would be easier to understand his secrecy, but that wasn't the plan. What does he gain by keeping--or trying to keep--everyone but Sam in the dark if he's going to tell them anyway. Hasn't he exposed them to unnecessary danger?
He didn't expect to expose them to danger in the Shire, and still doesn't understand how much danger he is in. He knew they would protest his leaving without them, and thought that if he left it until the last minute it would be too late for them to join him. He also may have been reluctant to tell them at all.
Can you remember reading this chapter for the first time?
No.
Were you surprised to learn of the conspiracy? Pleased? Relieved?
I don't remember.
Sometimes I think it must be a wonderful thing to have such attentive friends so willing to take care of one, but on the other hand Frodo has already complained about having his comings and goings observed. I can't decide whether I am more struck by the depth of Merry's and Pippin's loving concern for Frodo here or by the footloose freedom that enables these two to drop everything and join him in his quest.
Fortunately, the Tooks and Brandybucks had a long tradition of disappearing on adventures. And Fatty could tell their families what happened. Merry and Pippin were relatively young. Taking a year or so to travel during youth may have been common among Tolkien's upper class Oxford classmates, because the British Empire spanned the globe.
As for Frodo being observed, it is very hard to do anything in a small town without being observed doing it. That's the whole point of moving to Crickhollow.
(This post was edited by Curious on Nov 23 2007, 3:40pm)
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dernwyn
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Nov 24 2007, 12:21am
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"It's 6:03 and the heirs to my dominion
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Are scrubbed and tubbed, and adequately fed
So now I'll pat them on the head, and send them off to bed
Ah! Lordly is the life I lead!"
Well, Frodo isn't exactly George Banks (what, you aren't all familiar with "Mary Poppins"? )! He is the "lord" of his simple manor, but he won't be able to tell these Hobbits a "farewell story", give them each a pat on the head, and send them on their way.
For that matter, why did he feel the need to say good-bye to them, at all! He could have simply said thank you, but he's tired now, and he'd see them in a day or two, then had Sam help collect what gear they'd need, and the two of them slip out during the night - or possibly the following evening.
Perhaps, with the Black Riders on his tail, he felt some explanation was in order, in case these strangers proved dangerous to not only himself. Or maybe, he needed to explain why Crickhollow would show no sign of residents for a long time. But he definitely did not want to have to go through with this talk, and thus put if off as long as he possibly could.
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"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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Nerdanel
Ossiriand
Nov 24 2007, 9:00pm
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A day after you posted, and that @£$ song is still stuck in my head!//
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dernwyn
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Nov 26 2007, 3:45am
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Farewell we call, farewell we call, to hearth and hall
This Hobbit's the luckiest Hobbit of all
We must away, we must away, 'fore break of day
With four friends like us, his Quest will not stray!
(sung to "Chim Chim Cheree", of course!)
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"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Dec 6 2007, 1:43am
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"nobleman" and "younger vassals"
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That's an interesting choice of words. I've been struggling with a 2006 Mythlore essay by Corinne Zemour, on Arthurian imagery in the Old Forest episode, that says something similar (but it doesn't hang together as a piece of scholarship).
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Dec. 3-9 for "In the House of Tom Bombadil".
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Dec 6 2007, 1:46am
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"Just a plate-full of mushrooms..." //
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Dec. 3-9 for "In the House of Tom Bombadil".
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Dec 6 2007, 2:20am
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He then gave a full account of their journey from the time when they left Hobbiton.
Just a thought: that sentence can't be faithfully filmed.
If he had determined to sneak away without telling them at all it would be easier to understand his secrecy ... Hasn't he exposed them to unnecessary danger? His goal was to keep word of his departure from spreading, as even friends might do by accident. And only in the past 36 hours has he known there was any immediate danger. Telling them he was leaving wouldn't have changed that.
Under what circumstances would hobbits thrown dust in one another's eyes?
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Dec. 3-9 for "In the House of Tom Bombadil".
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