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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Dec 7 2009, 6:04am
Post #1 of 14
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Father Christmas Letters, 1920-24
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Welcome to our three-week discussion of Letters from Father Christmas!
Each December from 1920 to 1943, J.R.R. Tolkien’s children received letters, often illustrated, written by their father in the guise of Father Christmas, who is the English (or Northern European) embodiment of that December, Christian holiday. Tolkien would contrive that these letters arrived seemingly without his involvement: the postman might bring them with hand-drawn stamps affixed, or they might appear by the chimney, apparently having been delivered “by elf messenger”. Likewise the Tolkien children’s letters to Fr. Xtmas (one of several abbreviations Tolkien used) would disappear, apparently picked up for journey to the North Pole.
A selection of the letters was posthumously edited by Tolkien’s daughter-in-law, Baillie, for publication in 1976, as the Father Christmas Letters (Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond report that this edition has the best color, as well as a few images not found in later versions). Further editions followed in 1994, 1995, 1999, and 2004, the last three titled Letters from Father Christmas. The 1999 edition is said to be the most complete, including the text of all suriving letters, plus reproductions of almost all the pictures, many of the envelopes, and of some of the actual letters. (The wikipedia entry on the FCL is rather poor, by the way.) This week I’ll be leading you through the introductory letters of 1920-1931. Next week Elizabeth will examine the long, exciting letters for 1932-1936. And Galadriel TX will cover the poignant final letters during Christmas week.
1920
The 1920 envelope is addressed to “Mrs. Tolkien & Master John Francis Reuel Tolkien” on Alfred St. in Oxford (Tolkien had just started work in Leeds and had as yet only temporary housing there, journeying regularly back to stay with his family), and it bears this stamp:
The letter, from “Yr loving Fr. Chr.” at “Christmas House, North Pole”, reads:
I heard you ask daddy what I was like & where I lived. I have drawn ME & My House for you. Take care of the picture. I am just off now for Oxford with my bundle of toys—some for you. Hope I shall arrive in time: the snow is very thick at the NORTH POLE tonight.
John was born in November 1917, by the way, so he was three.
The two pictures that Father Christmas mentions appear as panels on the same sheet. “ME” shows Father Christmas carrying a sack on his left shoulder as he walks through the snow at night with evergreen trees in the distance. He wears a red coat trimmed with white, with a hood that drops past the shoulder (a chaperon?) that also is red with white trim. He wears black boots, and has a long white beard. Here is a detail:
Here the picture of “MY HOUSE”:
1923
The letters from 1921 and 1922 are not believed to survive. The 1923 letter, addressed to John (the Tolkiens now lived in Leeds) and dated Christmas Eve, is two short pages (about 150 words) with no illustrations. In it Father Christmas describes himself as 1,924 (corrected to 1,927) years old; it is due to his great age that his hand trembles when he writes. Here is an example of his handwriting; notice how the straight lines have little squiggles in them:
Father Christmas is sending John “lots of love” and also Lotts Bricks which he feels are better than the Picabrix that John had apparently requested.
1924
There are two very short letters for 1924, both dated Dec. 23: one for John and one for his younger brother Michael, who was born in Oct. 1920. (By the way, the envelope for John’s letter appears only in the 1995 edition of LFFC, and in J.R.R. Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator.) Father Christmas says he is quite busy; he has an engine for Michael and a station for John.
Questions
Does your family have any traditions involving imaginary characters, for Christmas or other holidays? If so, please tell us about them. In my family, we left cookies and milk for Santa on Christmas Eve, which were of course gone (apart from a few crumbs) the next morning. Sometimes we left some carrots for the reindeer. And we would write wish-list letters. How do your experiences compare to the Christmas traditions in the Tolkien household? If you celebrate(d) Christmas, was Father Christmas or Santa Claus part of your traditions? Did you write letters to him? Did he write back? How old were you when you stopped interacting with such characters? What do you think of the whole idea of Father Christmas?
What is your image of Father Christmas or Santa Claus (can anyone clearly explain the difference, by the way?) And how do they compare to Tolkien’s image? (For myself, I was raised on the 1961 book, Jolly Old Santa Claus, with wonderful illustrations of Santa’s workshop and his “Brownie” helpers by George Hinke; recent editions, I hear, are bowdlerized by the removal of Santa’s pipe.)
Where is Fr. C. walking to in the “ME” picture? Is he near his home, loading his sleigh? Is he already in in Oxford?
What are the spikes emerging from the ground around Fr. C.’s house? What is the big spike behind and to the left of the house, or in the middle of the stamp? Did you realize the answer before reading the 1925 letter?
A note in the corner of the 1920 letters sends love to “daddy, mummy, michael & auntie [& ?] ____” where the last word appears to be “mary” or perhaps “may”. Are “auntie” and “ma__” one or two people? Any idea who she or they could be?
Tolkien doesn’t mention Fr. Christmas’ great age and trembling hand until 1923, but the handwriting has that characteristic from the start. Which came first: the style or its rationale, even if only in Tolkien’s mind?
Do you think Michael received a letter in 1923, that is now lost? He was the same age then as John was when the first letter arrived.
Further comments or questions about these three letters, or the idea of the Father Christmas Letters?
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We're discussing The Silmarillion in the Reading Room, Aug. 9 - Mar 7. Please join the conversation!
This week: "Of Túrin Turambar".
 Also in the RR, Dec. 7-27: Letters from Father Christmas!
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How to find old Reading Room discussions.
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GaladrielTX
Dor-Lomin
Dec 7 2009, 7:11pm
Post #2 of 14
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Thanks so much for stepping in this week, NEB!
Does your family have any traditions involving imaginary characters, for Christmas or other holidays?
I’m so glad you asked because I have one story about my father, and I just love recalling old stories about Dad. On Christmas Eve every year he would get on the phone and call his two sisters to chat and catch up. After they had talked for awhile, he would ask my aunts to put each of my younger cousins on the phone. Dad would then pretend to be Santa Claus, deepening his already lower-baritone voice. He would ask them what they wanted for Christmas and tell them to be good and go to bed when my aunts told them to and that he was looking forward to visiting them and leaving them presents. The kids would get so excited that they were actually talking to Santa on the phone.
Like you, I did leave cookies and milk out on Christmas Eve. One year I also felt sorry for the reindeer so I insisted on also putting out nine carrots, one for Rudolph and all the other deer. The next day I was surprised to find that the bag of carrots in the fridge, which had been almost empty the night before, had magically refilled itself.
I, too, wrote a wish list to Santa. We didn’t have a fireplace so I put it between the back door and its storm door. It would somehow magically disappear.
When I was a toddler Dad invested in a home movie camera. On Christmas morning, I was forbidden to go to the living room by myself, and instead I had to go to my parents’ room while Mom dolled herself up and Dad went out into the living room to set up the camera. Then he would shoot Mom and I going down the hallway into the living room and capture my reaction to the gifts. This worked well, until I became a surly teenager. :o)~
How do your experiences compare to the Christmas traditions in the Tolkien household?
I think mine were a little more modern and mainstream.
If you celebrate(d) Christmas, was Father Christmas or Santa Claus part of your traditions? Did you write letters to him? Did he write back?
Yes, I wrote the letters I mentioned above. Santa never wrote back. I did receive a record one year that had Christmas carols on it plus some dialogue between Santa and one of his Elves while they flew through the skies delivering gifts. At one point, Santa asks, “Whose house is this?”
The Elf replies (in a different voice than she previously had, LOL!), “This is... [GaladrielTX]’s house...., Santa Claus!”
Always good for a thrill.
How old were you when you stopped interacting with such characters?
Although I claimed to be above such things after about age nine or ten, I probably still made up the gift lists for several more years. Just in case, you understand.
What do you think of the whole idea of Father Christmas?
I think it’s wonderful! I am so glad the family kept the letters.
What is your image of Father Christmas or Santa Claus (can anyone clearly explain the difference, by the way?) And how do they compare to Tolkien’s image? (For myself, I was raised on the 1961 book, Jolly Old Santa Claus, with wonderful illustrations of Santa’s workshop and his “Brownie” helpers by George Hinke; recent editions, I hear, are bowdlerized by the removal of Santa’s pipe.)
The nerve!
I (probably mistakenly) think of Father Christmas and Santa Claus interchangeably. Then again, Annael rebuked me for calling the Cascade Mountains the Rockies so what do I know? My image probably comes from an illustrated book of ’Twas the Night Before Christmas plus the various (Hanna Barbera?) TV specials like Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. Really, there’s not much variation from one fat, bearded old man, usually in red, to the next.
Where is Fr. C. walking to in the “ME” picture? Is he near his home, loading his sleigh? Is he already in Oxford?
My first impression was somewhere at the North Pole, although I can’t imagine what he’d be doing there carrying a sack of toys, now that you mention it.
What are the spikes emerging from the ground around Fr. C.’s house? What is the big spike behind and to the left of the house, or in the middle of the stamp? Did you realize the answer before reading the 1925 letter?
They are poles. :o) I wonder what their function is, though, now that I think of it. I probably did not know before I read the later letter. I think I thought they were sort of a reverse icicle.
A note in the corner of the 1920 letters sends love to “daddy, mummy, michael & auntie [& ?] ____” where the last word appears to be “mary” or perhaps “may”. Are “auntie” and “ma__” one or two people? Any idea who she or they could be?
I don’t know enough about Tolkien’s family to say.
Tolkien doesn’t mention Fr. Christmas’ great age and trembling hand until 1923, but the handwriting has that characteristic from the start. Which came first: the style or its rationale, even if only in Tolkien’s mind?
It probably arose from Tolkien’s desire to disguise his own penmanship and the rationale came later, but we can only guess. The other obvious explanation would be shivering from the cold, but I don’t like the idea of Father Christmas being uncomfortable. I liked the explanation he picked because it rings true. Both my grandmother and now my mother developed a hand tremor in their later years that affected their penmanship.
Do you think Michael received a letter in 1923, that is now lost? He was the same age then as John was when the first letter arrived.
I’ve noticed Father Christmas doesn’t treat the children systematically so possibly not. For example, he stops writing to John at a younger age than Priscilla.
Further comments or questions about these three letters, or the idea of the Father Christmas Letters?
Well, I know I said I was keeping a list of questions and comments. They looked good yesterday, but I read them over now, and they're just too obvious. I'm going to have to do better two weeks from now.
~~~~~~~~
The TORNsib formerly known as Galadriel.
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Curious
Gondolin
Dec 7 2009, 7:53pm
Post #3 of 14
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Does your family have any traditions involving imaginary characters, for Christmas or other holidays?
The Santa who visits our neighborhood Christmas party is the real Santa, because his beard is real. The others we see around town are his helpers.
Any efforts to preserve the magic of imaginary characters was complicated by our daughter's fear of costumed characters. We resorted to showing her people getting in and out of such costumes to persuade her there was nothing to fear. Remarkably, despite the fact that she knows they are just people in costumes, she still persuades herself that they are also imaginary characters, but fortunately she has lost her fear of them. Not so for her little sister -- I had to sit on Santa's lap with my youngest on my lap, because she wanted nothing to do with Santa.
It really is remarkable the way young minds believe in imaginary characters, sometimes to their own detriment, as the Easter Bunny or Chuck E. Cheese paralyze them with fear. My oldest now enjoys imagining that these characters were real. Ironically, her skepticism has made them fun, instead of terrifying. The youngest still believes without reservation, which is why they terrify her.
I think this parallels the modern attitude towards elves and fantasy in general. For Tolkien and his fans, Fairie is first great fun, and second an antidote to modern skepticism and industrialism. For some, it may even provide an entry point into contemplation of profound spiritual matters. But in the pre-industrial age, people still feared witches so fervently that they hung innocent women, while others believed in heaven so fervently that they became saints. For many people, demons, elves, and angels were as real as dirt.
How do your experiences compare to the Christmas traditions in the Tolkien household?
I'm a failure as a father compared to Tolkien! But then, few fathers had his gift for storytelling.
If you celebrate(d) Christmas, was Father Christmas or Santa Claus part of your traditions?
Yes.
Did you write letters to him? Did he write back?
No and no. When I was young I would get one gift a year from Santa, and I distinctly remember the year I kept asking my mom who it was really from.
How old were you when you stopped interacting with such characters?
Maybe seven -- the same year I first read The Hobbit, I believe, or had it read to me.
What do you think of the whole idea of Father Christmas?
I'm not very familiar with the English version. My understanding is that Christmas wasn't celebrated much in England or much of the U.S. before Victorian times. The Puritans considered it a pagan holiday, and the Presbyterians also disapproved. The Catholics, in response, emphasized the solemn religious aspect. Dickens' story "A Christmas Carol" did much to revive the celebration of Christmas. The popularity of the poem "'The Night Before Christmas" and the illustrations of Thomas Nast had a similar influence in the U.S. However, I think it was the rise of the industrial society that turned Christmas into such a popular holiday, because the rising middle class could afford mass-produced gifts.
My mother's family grew up as tenant farmers during the Great Depression, and they had a hard time affording gifts. They rarely had cash. My grandmother hit upon the idea of raising turkeys as a cash crop, and they would use the cash to buy modest Christmas gifts. My mother also tells the story of the time her mother asked for a gold pin, meaning the color gold, and her father actually bought her a pin made of gold, which was extremely extravagant at that time.
My wife's mother's family grew up in Yugoslavia during the Great Depression, and they gave gifts on December 6, St. Nicholas's day. Oranges were a common gift, and quite exotic. They also had a tradition that bad boys and girls would be punished not with coal in their stockings, but with whips and chains. They had a scary character who would come to punish them, but I can't remember his name. Ah, I looked it up on Wikipedia -- Krampus is the demon character who comes to punish the naughty children.
What is your image of Father Christmas or Santa Claus (can anyone clearly explain the difference, by the way?)
Santa Claus is influenced by Father Christmas, but evolved differently due to Dutch influences and due to Christmas tales and illustrations that became popular in the U.S. Even as recently as the addition of Rudolph, popular songs and tales add to the legend. As far as I can tell, these days the primary difference is that Father Christmas usually has a very long beard and isn't fat.
And how do they compare to Tolkien’s image? (For myself, I was raised on the 1961 book, Jolly Old Santa Claus, with wonderful illustrations of Santa’s workshop and his “Brownie” helpers by George Hinke; recent editions, I hear, are bowdlerized by the removal of Santa’s pipe.)
Tolkien's character isn't fat.
Where is Fr. C. walking to in the “ME” picture? Is he near his home, loading his sleigh? Is he already in in Oxford?
He is near his home, since the letter says he is writing from his home and has not yet left for Oxford.
What are the spikes emerging from the ground around Fr. C.’s house? What is the big spike behind and to the left of the house, or in the middle of the stamp? Did you realize the answer before reading the 1925 letter?
After your hint that I should read the 1925 letter, I know it is the North Pole. I'm still not sure of the reason for all the other poles.
A note in the corner of the 1920 letters sends love to “daddy, mummy, michael & auntie [& ?] ____” where the last word appears to be “mary” or perhaps “may”. Are “auntie” and “ma__” one or two people? Any idea who she or they could be?
No clue, sorry.
Tolkien doesn’t mention Fr. Christmas’ great age and trembling hand until 1923, but the handwriting has that characteristic from the start. Which came first: the style or its rationale, even if only in Tolkien’s mind?
I'm guessing that at first Tolkien just wanted to disguise his own handwriting, and only later came up with an explanation.
Do you think Michael received a letter in 1923, that is now lost? He was the same age then as John was when the first letter arrived.
Could be.
Further comments or questions about these three letters, or the idea of the Father Christmas Letters?
See above.
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sador
Gondolin
Dec 7 2009, 8:12pm
Post #4 of 14
(637 views)
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I am not going to participate in this discussion, as I haven't read Father Christmas' Letters (nor did my family ever celebrate that holiday) - but now I'm really going to follow it!
You were sorely missed.
"Of what sort are the women of that land?"
- Saeros
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Dec 7 2009, 8:15pm
Post #5 of 14
(626 views)
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******************************************
That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Elvenhome
Dec 7 2009, 9:22pm
Post #6 of 14
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My parents didn't try to hard to pretend about Santa Claus, though they did fill our stockings. When I was about four our church had a Santa come to Sunday School and I sat on his lap and he asked me what I wanted. I said I didn't know, so he said 'How about a dollhouse?" I said "OK". And when one appeared on Christmas morning, I thought, "OK, maybe he's real after all." My mom told me later they had bought me a sled, and had to scramble to get a dollhouse, and they gave the sled to my two-year-old brother. I never did find out how they found out. Maybe I just told them. At any rate, by age eight I knew Santa was pretend; I know this because a girl I knew in second grade berated me years later for destroying her faith.
When our kids were little we told them Santa was just pretend, but we had a good time pretending. I'd clean the grease off the stove so that when he came down the stovepipe (it's very small, but Santa's magic) he wouldn't get dirty. We hung the stockings in the kitchen. I'd have to get up early, because my kids always stayed up late as a general rule.
It seemed to work OK playing pretend, except that when he was about three my poor son told his great-grandmother Santa was just pretend, and she told him he was bad and wouldn't get anything for Christmas. Poor little guy didn't know why she was scolding him. So that kind of backfired.
We also left money from the tooth fairy under their pillows.
I've always thought it was kind of a shame to lie to kids. Kids like playing pretend, so pretending about Santa and the tooth fairy can be just as fun as "believing'. But some of my older relatives were pretty shocked by that.
OK, now I have to go look up the 1925 letter, since I don't remember what the spiky pillars are for. I always figured the big one was the North Pole, and the other ones were lesser poles, kind of like magical upside down icicles, but I never thought much about their purpose. They just look cool and very icy.
As others have said, my image of Santa Claus was always fatter, and with a bushier beard. And I agree that the "spidery' handwriting is an attempt to disguise his own handwriting.
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"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
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"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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squire
Gondolin
Dec 8 2009, 12:33am
Post #7 of 14
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"Oh, Henry, then WHERE is auntie?"
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A note in the corner of the 1920 letters sends love to “daddy, mummy, michael & auntie [& ?] ____” where the last word appears to be “mary” or perhaps “may”. Are “auntie” and “ma__” one or two people? Any idea who she or they could be?
In 1920, Jennie Grove was still living with the Tolkiens. She was Edith's older cousin, who had kept her company and helped with the baby during the war years and after. According to both the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia (ed. Drout) and the J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide (Scull & Hammond), she was known as "Auntie Ie". Scull says this was based on baby John's attempts to say "Jennie".
Thus she would be the "auntie" of the letter's superscript.
Scull & Hammond also have some information on the Tolkien's servants in this period ("Domestic duties", II.211). The end of February 1922 was the last week in which Edith employed "Mary" - whom Scull & Hammond speculate was a maid. Perhaps this is the "Mary" of a year earlier, in the 1920 letter from Father Christmas?
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Dec 8 2009, 7:06pm
Post #8 of 14
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Belief: I stubbornly held onto a belief in Santa Claus until Grandma had a serious talk with me at about age eleven. I did so because I thought doubting in him would imply disbelieving and therefore disrespecting my grandparents, though I found it increasingly difficult (I used to make sketches of mutant reindeer antler cross-sections to try and figure out how they aerodynamically might lift reindeer.) Although many might consider me gullible to this day (yes, Curious--some of us do persist in believing in angels and demons and such in the 21st century, and some of my friends are witches) I have far stricter standards than I used to, and no longer swallow things just because somebody tells me to. On the other hand, I'm equally skeptical about disbelieving what I'm told to disbelieve. But Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy are definitely on my "fictional" list today.
Customs: We put out milk and cookies for Santa Claus, a carrot for the Easter Bunny (Grandma later told us how unappetizing it was to gnaw at a raw, unpeeled carrot to please us, though well worth our delight in the morning) and teeth for the Tooth Fairy. One year my brother and I decided to outsmart the tooth fairy by fashioning wax teeth and putting them under our pillows. We woke to aluminum foil coins. (Grandma had even carefully embossed them over real coins to impress us.)
Additional characters: We also believed in Tusslehead, the Littlest Angel, from a story that my grandfather read to us, mispronouncing Touslehead. (No, I do not now believe in angel children. They don't have ages.) And we believed in the more modern invention, Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer. We did not, however, believe in Frosty the Snowman. Somehow he simply did not satisfy us archetypally.
Anecdote. When my twin half-brothers were three years old, we brought a big bag of toys to Mom's house for them. (My elder brother and myself were at that time adults.) My big brother left it on the porch and stepped out of sight, shouting, "Ho ho ho!" in a deep voice, and out came our little brothers, running excitedly. At that precise moment a plane flew overhead, flashing a red light, causing much excitement and cries of "Woodolf! Woodolf!"
We then visited the next day, and the boys eagerly showed us what Santa Claus had brought them. And then Joseph stood there staring at us, with his arms crossed, leaning against the sofa arm (which was at that time taller than him.) Finally, scowling and putting on the manner of a banker refusing a loan, he told us, "Did you know that it is customawy for guests to bwing pwesents on Chwistmas?" Since I couldn't very well tell him that I had helped to make the Robin-Hood costumes in the bag, I apologized and promised to do better next year.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Dec 9 2009, 6:44pm
Post #9 of 14
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I'm guessing red is Santa/Fr. Christmas's favorite color.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Curious
Gondolin
Dec 9 2009, 11:35pm
Post #10 of 14
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I still think there is a difference
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between modern and ancient belief in the supernatural, at least in industrial societies. Industrialization has changed everything. Modern believers must deal with the rise of science and technology, and often hold up their beliefs as an antidote to the negative aspects of industry. There's a strong element of nostalgia for a pre-industrial era.
But the people who really lived in the pre-industrial era mostly lived in mortal terror of the supernatural. The supernatural dominated the past in the way that science and industry dominates the present. I don't think it is possible for us to fully appreciate a world in which science was an esoteric philosophy unknown to the vast masses of people, while the supernatural went unquestioned.
So sure, many modern people profess to believe in ghosts. But most of them love ghost stories. They believe in ghosts the way my seven-year-old does -- because it's fun. Yes, sometimes they actually scare themselves to the point where they can't sleep and have nightmares, but they still find ghosts attractive.
I think ancient peoples found ghosts and witches terrifying in the way we might find cancer and car crashes and tornadoes terrifying. The supernatural was a real threat. People paid hard cash to the church, or volunteered their labor, to protect themselves from the supernatural, building magnificent cathedrals despite their poverty. They had no health insurance or car insurance or property insurance, but they gladly paid for costly spiritual insurance. They also killed thousands of innocent people to deal with that threat.
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Dec 10 2009, 5:07pm
Post #11 of 14
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Most medicine people that I've met have college degrees, often in scientific subjects like anthropology, or medicine as you know the term. I have known several, in fact, to teach college classes. And believe me, they will still tell you that the threat of the supernatural gone wrong is real.
But I will agree with you that we have advanced beyond thinking that the answer to a supernatural problem would be killing or tormenting a physical person. I am glad those days are behind us! I'm a descendant of Rebecca Nurss on the white side, after all. (In the history books you'll find her as Rebecca Nurse, but she spelled her name sixteen different ways on the court records, and our family went with Nurss.)
(On the Indian side, even in the past my tribe had a safeguard against killing the innocent, in the form of a taboo against killing an evildoing witch (as distinguished from someone who used magic for the community good) while in human form. You had to wait until he or she took the form of an animal. Unfortunately, my White family wasn't so lucky.)
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Curious
Gondolin
Dec 10 2009, 5:58pm
Post #12 of 14
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must compete with science and technology, or even incorporate it into their treatments. They may justify their treatments by citing scientific studies supporting alternative medicine. In the ancient past, no such competition existed. No matter how strongly we believe in the supernatural, we cannot avoid the effect of the industrial age. Many people claim to reject science, but few of them live like the Amish. In ancient times, the Amish way of life was closer to the norm.
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Dec 10 2009, 6:47pm
Post #13 of 14
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I don't see it as a competition, but have it your way. What I intended to refute is your contention of a difference in intensity of feeling, and I don't see that as necessarily true.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Dec 14 2009, 10:37pm
Post #14 of 14
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Does your family have any traditions involving imaginary characters, for Christmas or other holidays?
There was Uncle Merle and Uncle Chester, but that was mainly because no one ever knew where they were.
If so, please tell us about them.
Around Christmas time Uncle Merle would return from wherever and marry Aunt Nadine. Then every Spring he’d run off with A Young Thing and get a divorce.
Uncle Chester lived in Arizona someplace, and I was convinced he was really Dennis Weaver.
In my family, we left cookies and milk for Santa on Christmas Eve, which were of course gone (apart from a few crumbs) the next morning. Sometimes we left some carrots for the reindeer. And we would write wish-list letters. How do your experiences compare to the Christmas traditions in the Tolkien household?
Our parents told us that all the farm animals would kneel and pray at midnight. We’d try to stay up and see, but never could stay awake long enough. Since we often were still awake when our parents went to bed, Santa often had to leave our presents out on the back porch.
Also I think 1962 was the only Christmas Day we actually got snow.
If you celebrate(d) Christmas, was Father Christmas or Santa Claus part of your traditions?
Santa Claus. I first heard of Father Christmas reading Dickens.
Did you write letters to him?
Yeah. Father would mail them for me. Indeed, one of the big treats as a kid was going to the post office with my father. Big echoing building with marble floors and all sorts of mysterious government offices, including *gasp* the FBI!!!! I'd always closely study the wanted posters of the Ten Most Wanted criminals just in case.
You know, thinking back, with all the distractions I never actually saw him mail the letter....
Did he write back?
No, but he once did my homework when I was very sick.
How old were you when you stopped interacting with such characters?
Stopped?
What do you think of the whole idea of Father Christmas?
Good idea.
What is your image of Father Christmas or Santa Claus…
Coca-Cola.
(can anyone clearly explain the difference, by the way?)
Father Christmas is Victorian, Santa Claus is Coca-Cola.
And how do they compare to Tolkien’s image?
Different peoples, different perceptions. Like God.
(For myself, I was raised on the 1961 book, Jolly Old Santa Claus, with wonderful illustrations of Santa’s workshop and his “Brownie” helpers by George Hinke; recent editions, I hear, are bowdlerized by the removal of Santa’s pipe.)
Retcon. Han Solo shot first, Gandalf smoked a pipe, and Hal Jordan is the real Green Lantern.
Where is Fr. C. walking to in the “ME” picture? Is he near his home, loading his sleigh? Is he already in in Oxford?
He’s doing his part in The 1925 Great Race of Mercy to save sick Amerindian children in Nome. This is just before he hands off the bag containing the diptheria antitoxin to Balto.
What are the spikes emerging from the ground around Fr. C.’s house?
The various North Poles. There’s the Geographic North Pole, the Celestial North Pole, the Instantaneous North Pole, the Magnetic North Pole, the Geomagnetic North Pole, and probably one or two other North Poles I’m forgetting.
What is the big spike behind and to the left of the house, or in the middle of the stamp?
One of the poles.
Did you realize the answer before reading the 1925 letter?
What letter?
Tolkien doesn’t mention Fr. Christmas’ great age and trembling hand until 1923, but the handwriting has that characteristic from the start. Which came first: the style or its rationale, even if only in Tolkien’s mind?
The time and source of most inspirations are usually a mystery.
Do you think Michael received a letter in 1923, that is now lost?
Probably several letters, a few post cards, and a parcel or two. I know I had a personal letter from Howdy Doody, a Johnny Quest decoder ring, and an autographed picture of Jesus, all of which I wished I’d kept from when I was a kid.
(Oral Roberts sent me the autographed picture of Jesus when I was five. Cost me a whole dollar that I'd earned doing chores like feeding chickens, ironing handkerchiefs, watering the garden, feeding the dogs, and what-not. I then haunted the mailbox for what seemed like an entire month. When it finally came I was somewhat disappointed that it wasn't an actual photograph.)
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That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.
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