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Curious
Half-elven
Jun 25 2009, 2:52pm
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I would like to discuss the 1977 Rankin-Bass version of The Hobbit in detail.
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It's available to rent and (shh!) it's also available on YouTube. I would love to compare it with the book and with Jackson's movies. My memories of it are vague -- I know I had already read Tolkien's books, and liked them much better. But a number of people were introduced to Tolkien by this TV movie for kids, and from what I read on imdb.com, it has some redeeming qualities, including a number of great actors providing the voices.
I'm familiar with detailed discussions of books, but not with movies. I know plenty of other people are familiar with discussions of Jackson's movies, and I wondered (a) if other people are interested in discussing the Rankin-Bass movie, and (b) if someone familiar with movie discussions is willing to organize the discussion.
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burrahobbit
Rohan
Jun 25 2009, 4:21pm
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When you experience something as a child it always shapes your perception of it, usually in a rose-tinted way. So for me I listened to the BBC adaptation of The Hobbit lots of times as a kid, and so it's always going to be the definitive Hobbit for me. No matter that Bilbo sounds camp, and the effects are a bit dodgy, it's like stepping back into a special part of childhood every time I listen to it.
Same definitely goes for the Rankin-Bass Hobbit, which lots of Tolkien fans enjoyed as children. For me, I saw it for the first time as an adult five years ago, and I thought it was really poor. Not just in the more superficial aspects (like the bad concept design of Bilbo, Smaug, the elves, the goblins, Gollum; or the inappropriate music styles), it just didn't really get to the heart of the story. Bilbo is voiced in a very calm, aloof, kind of way. There's no real sense of his immaturity at the beginning of the story, or of him experiencing fear and discovering his courage through the adventure. Without these key transformations the adventure feels flat and there's little emotional involvement. Of course this is mainly because the intended audience is seven years old! But even Disney films (Bambi, Jungle Book) manage to be emotionally engaging kids stories.
It's not all bad. Gandalf is good in a folksy way, and at least his relationship with Bilbo works. Smaug has a great voice (though I still prefer the BBC version  ). But overall I hope that GDT uses the Rankin and Bass version as the perfect example of how not to adapt The Hobbit.
View my Hobbit Film Adaptation Discussion
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Curious
Half-elven
Jun 25 2009, 4:31pm
Post #3 of 42
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in studying the Rankin-Bass movie as "the perfect example of how not to adapt The Hobbit"? I think it would still be interesting, even if it is mostly a negative example. And I have a feeling that what some people dislike, others will like -- but maybe we will learn that some things are universally disliked.
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Sonic#
Bree
Jun 25 2009, 4:33pm
Post #4 of 42
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I've never participated in one of these discussions...
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But I would be interested in participating, I think. I've seen the Hobbit only once, and actually rather enjoyed it. My friends and I still laughed in parts, but it wasn't as bad as Bakshi's version.
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Pittsmen
Rivendell
Jun 25 2009, 8:15pm
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I mean long time fans have all seen in and grown up with it.... That doesnt make it good. Alot of the story is butchered and the designs and music and feel is... just wrong... Never the less it is and adaption of tolkiens work... I actually saw a play of the hobbit 10 or 12 years ago that actually was a far better adaption then this movie...
The look of the dwarves and smaug in the cartoon turn it off for me as an adult.. but if your 5, its fun!
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Idril Celebrindal
Tol Eressea
Jun 25 2009, 8:40pm
Post #7 of 42
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I'd be up for a discussion of the R-B Hobbit, too.
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Nostalgia aside, it would be interesting to discuss its strengths and weaknesses as an adaptation. I always liked its artwork and that it included a lot of Tolkien's songs (admittedly with varying degrees of success). It's aged a lot more gracefully than the R-B Return of the King, that's for sure.
I'd be happy to help with organizing the discussion, but I'm going to be out of town with limited or no internet access for a good part of July and would have to work around that.
With caffeine, all things are possible.
The pity of Bilbo will screw up the fate of many.
(This post was edited by Idril Celebrindal on Jun 25 2009, 8:45pm)
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RosieLass
Valinor
Jun 25 2009, 10:22pm
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I'd be interested in a discussion.
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As long as it doesn't turn into a complete bash-fest and an "I can't believe anyone actually likes this stinker" kind of discussion. 
"Rabbit's clever," said Pooh thoughtfully.
"Yes," said Piglet, "Rabbit's clever."
"And he has Brains."
"Yes," said Piglet, "Rabbit has Brains."
There was a long silence.
"I suppose," said Pooh, "that that's why he never understands anything."
- A. A. Milne
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Theodred
Lorien
Jun 25 2009, 10:39pm
Post #9 of 42
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Is it an idea to compare David Wenzel's The Hobbit Comic as well?
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You can find it by clicking this link:
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jun 26 2009, 1:15am
Post #10 of 42
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My travel schedule right now is a little less insane, so it will be easier for me to monitor the discussion.
I'll PM you with my contact info.
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks? ' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
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carrioncrow
Lorien
Jun 26 2009, 1:25am
Post #11 of 42
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it succeeds on its own terms.
particularly i liked the voices (Houston, Boone, Theodore, Wynn in particular)
some of the watercolor background work was terrific.
the music is better than it is creditted but is probably the most dated and americanized aspect of the production (but it DID take some cues from the text...credit where it is due)
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batik
Tol Eressea
Jun 26 2009, 1:51am
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It's probably in my PO box right now. Ordered from Netfix and planning to watch this with the grandkids this weekend. I've not seen this--ever  (oh, I might have caught a glimpse of it on TV--long ago--but never have *watched*).
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Guillermo
Rivendell
Jun 26 2009, 3:45am
Post #13 of 42
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They attempted to animate a very corruscated graphic style which, in my opnion, tries to evoke Arthur Rackham- who never illustrated Tolkien to my knowledge but rather did THE RING OF THE NIBELUNG. Some of the Chromal and rendering choices are quite beautiful and endearing and I think another noticeable influence is that of PAUL COCKER JR (who was rather famous in MAD magazine) who was a brilliant designer of Trolls and Goblins and monsters.
The "feline" Smaug is, at lest original and has personality and Cocker's Gollum is sad and amphibian in a vaguely Lovecraftian way...
Trying to retain the fairy tale tone, the narrative follows a tight travelogue of incidents that seem to connect much more loosely than the book into the Battle of the 5 armies but that dramatically don't seem to build upon one another (the Rankin Bass animated feature reminds me, in an odd way of THE BLUES BROTHERS- a band of travellers on a quest pissing off random sorts of people until they all come together at the end to demand restitution) and that notably omits one of my favorite characters: Beorn.
On an odd, personal note- I find ALL the Dwarves disturbing and creepy in their design- which for me, as a kid, was a plus!!
Greetings
GDT
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Disa
The Shire
Jun 26 2009, 5:09am
Post #14 of 42
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Sorry, I LOVE the Rankin/Bass movie,
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Despite it's flaws. It is the single thing that first endeared The Hobbit to me as a child, even though I was born after it was created. I love the artwork and music, campy or not. The storyline is really butchered, but I think it was meant to make people want to read the original book, and if so, it succeeded perfectly. Just as PJ had his reasons for leaving out key things, so too did R/B have their reasons. Not that I'd agree, mind you.
What I really love about it, is that there is no straight lines in the artwork, except for the wepon blades. It's organic in it's design and color scheme, and that's what I like most about it. They got Gandalf right, and Gollum's eyes right, but not the skin(if you live out of the sun, you wouldn't be dark skinned.) I do like the wrinkles on the dwarves in the R/B, but I think that some dwarves had too many. And the animators seemed to favor large noses. That I can't argue with, dwarves and hobbits aren't men. But I wonder why the Dwarves didn't have large eyes as well, because they were primarily under ground as well. But I guess they did travel above ground for it not to be as pronounced a detail. It would make them look more scary to me however.
Another favorite point of mine on the R/B movie is that they did keep the poems and songs in tact. That's something you can't really do in movies too much, unless it's a musical. I do realize that "The Walking Song" was in FotR, and that's one of the things about PJ's movies that made my smile more warm about them than I thought it'd be.
I only wish there were female dwarves to be seen. Dwarves are my favorite of the races, because I rather look like one, or a tall hobbit.
Tolkien got skills.
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weaver
Half-elven
Jun 26 2009, 5:16am
Post #15 of 42
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drogo organized a discussion of Bakshi's LOTR a few years ago...
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He did it soon after we launched the new boards -- here's a link to his first post on it, where he laid out how he broke it down into weekly assignments:
http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=8674;#8674
There are many folks on the LOTR movie board who are very skilled at structuring/formatting movie discussions, too -- so please PM me if you get stuck and I can connect you with some "help desk" people...
Thanks for doing this and to Curious for suggesting it -- sounds like fun.
Weaver
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Curious
Half-elven
Jun 26 2009, 6:52am
Post #16 of 42
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Owlyross
Rohan
Jun 26 2009, 11:35am
Post #17 of 42
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I absolutely love that 'comic'
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It's superb, the drawings are excellent and the characterisation of Bilbo and the dwarves is perfect.
Must try and dig it out...
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)
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Parker
The Shire
Jun 26 2009, 12:51pm
Post #18 of 42
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Bilbo's on a mission from God...
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It's 106 miles to the Lonely Mountain, we have a full tank of gas, a half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark out, and I'm wearing the One Ring to rule them all.
Hit it.
(This post was edited by Parker on Jun 26 2009, 12:51pm)
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Jettorex
Lorien
Jun 26 2009, 1:53pm
Post #19 of 42
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I had already read the book so I was thrilled to see a "cartoon" movie. I remember liking it overall very much however I thought a couple of things struck me as odd (but not in a positive way). The parts where the music sounded like a rennaissance bard?/60's folk singer?? was a little off and the depiction of the BoFA reminded me of Pigpens (the peanuts cartoon character) head.
Other than those (and omitting Beorn) I thought and think its pretty good. I liked how all the chracters were drawn and portrayed, the voices were good, the coloring bright and beautiful and the story line well adapted.
- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
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Altaira
Superuser
Jun 26 2009, 2:53pm
Post #20 of 42
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Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
TORn Calendar
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carrioncrow
Lorien
Jun 26 2009, 3:49pm
Post #21 of 42
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but to make up for all that...
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Their 'Return of the King' was a crap sandwich
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hamlet
Rivendell
Jun 26 2009, 10:52pm
Post #24 of 42
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Agreed. I had a record (you know -- vinyl LP) of the movie and listened to it a lot. I can't fall asleep if things are too quiet, so I often used to play my recording as I nodded off at night, imagining Middle Earth. And I must admit that the somewhat cheesy music is a guilty pleasure of mine.
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Guillermo
Rivendell
Jun 27 2009, 12:59am
Post #25 of 42
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-from a colleague in JAPAN (R/B produced the HOBBIT through a famous studio there) that Rackham was indeed the reference. I find that quite brave and beautiful.
BTW- Remember, Dwarven women can be almost identical to male Dwarves (except in the relevant, hidden details) to the point of having beards, so-
On a Lazy Saturday
GDT
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