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Alientraveller
Menegroth
Apr 22 2009, 8:52pm
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Del Toro and Jackson talk in Empire magazine
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I received the June 2009 issue of Empire in the post today, which I've speedily intergrated on Wikipedia already http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Hobbit_films&diff=285515323&oldid=285209009 
There's some old stuff they repeat like talking to McKellen and Serkis, who still haven't signed a piece of paper, and how the films will feel like the trilogy but still have the charm and relative darkness of the book. Plus, Mike Mignola and Wayne Barlowe are officially joining the design team. The two most interesting tidbits I feel are:
1) Thrain will appear in the films.
2) They have only actually begun writing the screenplay! All the writing since August has just been the story, not the script.
If you'd like to know anything more, just ask and I'll type up some quotes for you.
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Altaira
Superuser
Apr 23 2009, 3:16am
Post #2 of 114
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I see you're relatively new posting here, so welcome!
And, let me put it this way: how fast can you type? Lol. 
Seriously, any other new and/or interesting tidbits would be welcome. VERY interesting point about the writing. As much as I'd like to see things moving along, I'm glad they took the time to piece the story together first. Plus, I'm glad it took them a long time to do it. That's a sign that they realized how complicated it was and took the time to do it right.
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
TORn Calendar
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Rogash
Nevrast
Apr 23 2009, 1:58pm
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Thanks Alatar !
But I see anythink,is there something wrong with it or it's my computer ?
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DiveTwin
Nargothrond
Apr 23 2009, 2:15pm
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Welcome to TORN!
I've been reading what's posted out on Wikipedia and can't wait for this Empire issue to hit the stores here in America. There is lots of good information that helps confirm or more fully explain what's on the mind of Guillermo Del Toro and Peter Jackson. A few lines that caught my eye:
Filming will take place throughout 2010 in New Zealand, and Del Toro will renovate the Hobbiton sets in Matamata
That is the first I've seen this written. I couldn't imagine the Hobbiton scenes being anywhere else but no one's been able to confirm they planned to go back to Matamata. Such a beautiful place and hopefully this is true and confirmed. I suppose the security this time around will be very difficult with the whole world knowing they are filming The Hobbit but then again, where in New Zealand could they film that fans wouldn't find out? We'll all have to just restrain ourselves so the team can get the work done without issue - but I will say if I lived in New Zealand and not Chicago, the temptation to hide in a bush with binoculars would be overwhelming.
Ideally, he wants every actor to reprise their roles, although he acknowledged some may be unable to because of health problems
Is this a nod to Christopher Lee and the stronger possibility that we may not see him revise his role as Saruman?
"Do not come between the Nazgul and his prey"
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Alientraveller
Menegroth
Apr 23 2009, 2:22pm
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Not all the information I've written on Wikipedia comes from Empire's latest interview: if you want to see where the information comes from, you need to click on the numbered footnotes. Del Toro said those two things in May 2008's webchat.
There is some more information I will mention from the issue having reread the interview:
1. We will learn more about Sauron and why he is a big eye in the trilogy.
2. When Del Toro arrived in New Zealand, he was arrested! PJ didn't mention why, but they bailed him thankfully, and they sat down to watch the whole trilogy - the first time Jackson had done so since the films were released, something that he admitted was overwhelming since the movies are so complex.
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DiveTwin
Nargothrond
Apr 23 2009, 2:25pm
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I hadn't read that information before - so thanks for the clarification. And get typing! We are dying to read this ...
"Do not come between the Nazgul and his prey"
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Mithrandír
Menegroth
Apr 23 2009, 3:40pm
Post #10 of 114
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Great! thank for the news, I tried to get empire here in Norway, but it comes out tomorrow or Saturday here in Bergen, so thanks! I hope Ian would just sign, so thats out my list of worries.
Wonder why GDT was thrown in the slammer  ...maybe he walked around with a sword, like viggo.
If a social phenomenon is interpreted as real by the agent, it becomes real in its consequence. Thomas.
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burrahobbit
Nargothrond
Apr 23 2009, 5:53pm
Post #11 of 114
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Quotes relevant to White Council storyline
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Wow that is a revealing interview! Along with the fun chat, the quotes that most interested me were about the White Council storyline:
Have you decided what the second movie will be?
Del Toro: We've deicded to have The Hobbit span the two movies, including the White Council and the comings and goings of Gandalf to Dol Guldur. Specifically, the two movies will comprise the book.
Jackson: We expanded out the universe a lot more, so that we weren't just staying with Bilbo and the dwarves on their journey, as the book pretty much does. We started to expand some of what's happening to Gandalf outside of that journey...
Del Toro: A bit of the backstory...
Jackson: We do cover some of the events earlier, like Thrain Thorin's father...
...
Jackson: The really interesting thing is the fact that Bilbo does get his hands on the Ring. In The Hobbit itself, the Rings hasn't really got enought time become a potent force- nonetheless it's still part of the internal jouney of the character.
...
Jackson: We're developing a lot more character and personality in the villain side of the story , too. We are having to deal with Sauron a little bit more specifically in this; how exactly he manifests himself and what form he's in, and how that is ultimately going to lead into what he becomes in the trilogy - and what he has been in the ancient past. That is something we are absolutely dealing with, much more so than what's in the book. You have to. People will be expecting it. It's before Lord oof the Rings, so we're going to learn a bit more about X, Y and Z...
This implies quite a lot of Dol Guldur related scenes will be included, possibly with Thrain's capture in Mirkwood (?), Gandalf finding him in Dol Guldur and seeing Sauron. With this story thread being setup, then it would be likely that the White Council and some form of attack on Dol Gudlur would be included.
For me the White Council is one of Tolkien's weakest stories, and I find this all a discouraging sign for the films. The 'villain' in The Hobbit is Smaug and he's got plenty of personality! Highlighting the ring and Sauron risks making the influence and power of the One Ring contradictory between the films. Also trying to use The Hobbit story to make up for the failure to visualise Sauron in The Lord of the Rings doesn't make any sense to me.
For the films to work there will have to be a more direct link between the White Council storyline and the Quest of Erebor. There is a link at the beginning (finding Thrain's map and key) but after that there is no connection and the White Council becomes a series of pre-emptive links to Lord of the Rings. The White Council is about combating Sauron and finding the One Ring, it just doesn't make sense with The Hobbit.
I expect what we'll get is some unconvincing plot device along the lines of the threat of Sauron and Smaug becoming an alliance if the White Council don't act. Or Sauron commanding the orcs to attack the Lonely Mountain.
At least GDT still seems to be focussed on telling The Hobbit story, but there does seem to be a tension with Jackson in terms of their visions for the films.
View my Hobbit Film Adaptation Discussion
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Apr 23 2009, 6:25pm
Post #12 of 114
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Perhaps they could minimize visuals of the Dol Guldur events while playing up
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...Gandalf's insistence to Thorin & co. that their quest is a relatively minor affair for him, and that the little-seen events away south are deemed by the Council of White Wizards to be much more important. With some very subtle acknowledgement of the irony that what happens on Bilbo's journey --the rediscovery of the Ring-- is "historically" more importnat after all.
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We're discussing The Hobbit in the Reading Room, Mar. 23 - Aug. 9. Everyone is welcome!
Join us Apr. 20-26 for "Riddles in the Dark".
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How to find old Reading Room discussions.
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sphdle1
Hithlum
Apr 23 2009, 6:51pm
Post #13 of 114
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These movies will be awesome and thoroughly enjoyable for most people.
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sticklebat
Menegroth
Apr 23 2009, 7:22pm
Post #14 of 114
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I have to say...although this storyline is not an integral part of The Hobbit...I'm really pleased to hear it will be explored, realized, and brought to screen. I've said earlier that I think it would be a really fascinating, 'Eye-opening'...(yes, pun intended) look at how the character of Sauron transforms & becomes what it is he becomes in the trilogy. I've heard so many casual viewers, fans of neither book or film say..."So, the bad guy is just a big, floating eye?...hmmm!" For them to have not read the books, to try and give that floating eye theory real credibility & real threat is difficult to try to explain and convey to someone just in passing.
I almost always find the villains and the source of their evil the most interesting & the most fun of any classic struggle between good and evil. I'm really excited to see these scenes...how they play out...the forms in which the Sauron will appear. As for the splitting the film into two parts, I think it could work in terms of introducing Sauron as only a lesser villain for the first half, ending with his subsequent overthrow and banishment out of Mirkwood (which may in fact work out well with our main heroes still in the same relative space and time with the Spiders and the Wood Elves)...and of course, Smaug will come into his own as the major villain in film two.
Ok boys...get casting...get announcing casting.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Doriath
Apr 23 2009, 7:43pm
Post #15 of 114
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[ Perhaps they could minimize visuals of the Dol Guldur events while playing up ]...Gandalf's insistence to Thorin & co. that their quest is a relatively minor affair for him, and that the little-seen events away south are deemed by the Council of White Wizards to be much more important. With some very subtle acknowledgement of the irony that what happens on Bilbo's journey --the rediscovery of the Ring-- is "historically" more importnat after all.
But I think it is unlikely to happen that way, particularly if Jackson has as much to say about it as this interview seems to be imply.
I really think they risk creating two parallel stories that clash in tone so much that it makes any effort to retain the Hobbit's whimsical charm seem farcical.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
www.arda-reconstructed.com
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burrahobbit
Nargothrond
Apr 23 2009, 8:07pm
Post #16 of 114
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About the White Council story in Film 1
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You're idea of covering the Dol Guldur storyline in Film 1 is interesting, but if Sauron is driven out in Film 1 doesn't that make the Quest of Erebor unnecessary? Here's what I mean-
* At the beginning of Film 1 Gandalf discovers Sauron has returned at Dol Guldur. The White Council do not support Gandalf's demand for an attack, so Gandalf kick starts the Quest of Erebor fearing an alliance between the dragon and Sauron.
* During Film 1 the White Council change their mind (why?), and Sauron is driven from Dol Guldur. So there is no longer a risk of a dreaded alliance between Sauron and the Dragon, so Gandalf need never have bothered with the Quest of Erebor.
Like you say both events are happening in the Mirkwood area but how are they linked thematically? How are the actions of our protagonist Bilbo influencing the White Council? Well in effect the link is the One Ring, but the true nature of the Ring cannot be revealed without beginning Lord of the Rings storyline far too early and badly affecting The Hobbit story.
I think it's more likely that any attack on Dol Guldur is told in Film 2. And I'd expect some plot device like the death of Smaug triggers the attack or something like that to artificially bring together the storylines. Otherwise there are just two parallel threads that aren't connected.
I've heard so many casual viewers, fans of neither book or film say..."So, the bad guy is just a big, floating eye?...hmmm!" For them to have not read the books, to try and give that floating eye theory real credibility & real threat is difficult to try to explain and convey to someone just in passing. The floating eye characterless Sauron was a flaw of Lord of the Rings films, and I think it won't work to try and fix this flaw in The Hobbit films.
View my Hobbit Film Adaptation Discussion
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Guillermo
Ossiriand
Apr 23 2009, 8:22pm
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Pete and I have developed a very dry humorous rapport that I enjoy immensely, we actually make a few jokes that don't translate well in print- since we did the interview via video cam I wa shoping that video would have been posted. Anyway- there are more ways to tie the two storylines than the speculation on the boards may indicate. We believe so and we believe that the story is blooming beautifully. Of course, some will agree and some will not- nevertheless progress is now steady and I see the films shape up every day. WETA afternoons are a delight, Mike Mignola leaves this week and Wayne Barlowe arrives in two weeks along with other "guest artists". Writing and designing in this peaceful Sanctuary remains the most pleasant experience of my creative life. True bliss. I started painting model kits on the weekends again after almost a decade- thanks to Pete's ultra-generous gift of a complete model painting set up much like the one I have in LA, or even better, I might add. We get along quite fabulous and I only wish (as always) that more revelations could be made since we DO have massive exciting news in the near future but I cannot promise deadlines for them anymore. I wish everyone could see the concept art, the key frames and scale models that I have had the privilege and joy of developing with our craftsmen and artists. We hope that the movies will be as beautiful and unique as you may expect. Great adventures ahead-
Hugs in your 10th!
Guillermo
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cedric
Lindon
Apr 23 2009, 8:30pm
Post #18 of 114
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well, than i shall be the first to thank you for informing us. good to see you are still out there thinking of us and i am sure you will do a hell of a job on this.
(This post was edited by cedric on Apr 23 2009, 8:34pm)
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Doriath
Apr 23 2009, 8:46pm
Post #19 of 114
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Thanks for taking the time to drop in here and give us your take on things, as much as you can. I was pretty sure the jail thing was a joke. I'm quite pleased with (and intrigued by) your statement that "there are more ways to tie the two storylines than the speculation on the boards may indicate." I will look forward patiently to discover what those ways are.
Cheers!
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
www.arda-reconstructed.com
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weathertop
Nargothrond
Apr 23 2009, 9:00pm
Post #21 of 114
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good to hear you'r still poking around here!
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its great to hear from ya (as well as read the interview!). there's quite a bit going on according to that interview, it allowed me to finally release that breath i've been achingly holding (that there's some turrrible grammar ain't it! hehe). i'm sure that it will spur on lots more speculation and ... discussion! ...
just out of curiosity (and admins please strike this if it strikes against the rules too much), how much of these speculative threads have you been reading and what are some of your non-confidence breaking thoughts on them?
thanks again for stopping by; hope to hear more of you in the future!!
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Jazmine
Dor-Lomin
Apr 23 2009, 9:07pm
Post #22 of 114
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Knowing how busy you must be I still think it is great that you pop in here whenever you get the chance! Glad you are enjoying your time in NZ, we look forward to hearing the big news in the coming weeks/months!
Take care
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burrahobbit
Nargothrond
Apr 23 2009, 9:26pm
Post #23 of 114
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Yes it did sound unlikely that you'd got arrested, NZ is not that kind of place. Good to hear how inspiring you are finding the creative process.
I am very intrigued by your comments on how the story threads can be woven together, and look forward to finding out! I do hope that telling Bilbo's tale and the themes of The Hobbit are the heart of the project.
View my Hobbit Film Adaptation Discussion
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DiveTwin
Nargothrond
Apr 23 2009, 9:30pm
Post #24 of 114
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I have to say...although this storyline is not an integral part of The Hobbit...I'm really pleased to hear it will be explored, realized, and brought to screen. I've said earlier that I think it would be a really fascinating, 'Eye-opening'...(yes, pun intended) look at how the character of Sauron transforms & becomes what it is he becomes in the trilogy. I've heard so many casual viewers, fans of neither book or film say..."So, the bad guy is just a big, floating eye?...hmmm!" For them to have not read the books, to try and give that floating eye theory real credibility & real threat is difficult to try to explain and convey to someone just in passing. Originally in Lord Of The Rings they were planning to have Sauron appear in front of the Black Gates in his pleasing human form and then in battle armor to vie against Aragorn.
While I am very glad that they decided against that conventional Hollywood wisdom in this case (where you are suppose to "show" the villian in this case and have the "big battle", despite the fact it's not in the story) I do admit I liked their concept and was wondering if they might go to this in either Hobbit movies when focusing on Dol Guldur.
So perhaps this is also a way to bring back that vision of Sauron in human form that PJ had in mind for Return Of The King? They show that vision in the ROTK-EE appendices.
And thanks to Guillermo for the quick update!
"Do not come between the Nazgul and his prey"
(This post was edited by DiveTwin on Apr 23 2009, 9:34pm)
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Guillermo
Ossiriand
Apr 23 2009, 9:38pm
Post #25 of 114
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But I try not to read the speculative threads AT ALL. I read the ones regarding news and revelations because I like to chime in with nuggets and ideas, etc but no- I dont read the others- wisdom prevails.
Ardent defenders of every polar opposites can be found in any given forum so, its best not to dwell- we have enough debates amongst ourselves, giving birth to many a great spontaneous, scholarly and passionate simposium.
In the incoming weeks we will explore a lot of ideas and technical possibilities. I will let you in on a few if I can find the time. For now, back to writing-
Much Peace
GDT
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