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Solwara
Registered User
Apr 21 2009, 6:29pm
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Primitivism in Tolkien
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Hello, all:
I'm working on a paper (for Prof. Vaccaro at UVM) examining primitivism in the Lord of the Rings, and I was hoping I could bounce some ideas around / get some suggestions as to content I might include et cetera. As it stands right now, this is a summary of what I'm going to build off.
The object of the essay is to work two aspects of J.R.R. Tolkien’s belief structure, a support of naturalistic anarchy and appreciation of pre-Christian pagan cultures, into a thesis about the underlying primitivism present in his legendarium. Anarchy and animism will be viewed as simply two different facets of a world view with an inherent rejection of centralized power and an appreciation with the natural realm. Parallels will be drawn between the primitivism evident in Tolkien’s writing and anthropological studies pointing to similar values held in near-modern day “tribal” societies, such as those of Southern Africa and Australia. Additionally, parallels will be drawn to the philosophy and life of American writer Edward Abbey, who perhaps embodies an extreme form of the basic primitivist spirit found lurking within the depths of Tolkien’s tomes. Apparent contradictions between such “radical” beliefs and Tolkien’s conservative Catholic leanings will also be examined. Finally, anarchy and animism will be viewed in light of Tolkien’s appreciation for pre-Christian Northern-European cultures.
I was thinking of opening up my discussion with Ghan-buri-Ghan, the story's clearest representation of 'noble savage'.
Thanks
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Curious
Gondolin
Apr 21 2009, 7:31pm
Post #2 of 16
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A fascinating topic. The biggest problem I see
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with calling Tolkien a primitivist is that Ghan-buri-Ghan is not the hero of LotR, the hobbits are, and the hobbits do not live in a primitive society. Rather, they live in a civilized agrarian society, based on Tolkien's memories of the 19th century English countryside. I'm not sure Edward Abbey would have wanted to live there at all.
I think it is more accurate to say that Tolkien sympathized with and respected the primitivists, but would not have wanted to live in a primitive society. You may want to look at Tolkien's essay "On Fairy-stories," in which he directly disputes the contention that fairy-stories are only fit for primitive men and modern children. You may also want to look at the writings of Owen Barfield, which influenced Tolkien's thinking about the evolution of language -- or perhaps the devolution of language.
Similarly, Tolkien sympathizes with and admires some pre-Christian societies, but still firmly believes that Christianity is right, and that those societies are improved if they convert to Christianity, without losing the best of their own culture. I think he attempted to create a mythology which incorporated the best of both worlds, maintaining compatibility with Roman Catholic monotheism while incorporating a multitude of greater and lesser spirits, often inhabiting nature.
On the other hand, you could also examine whether Tolkien reveals a patronizing attitude towards Ghan-buri-Ghan which reflects the last vestiges of Colonialism. Tolkien was not a fan of the British Empire, but he was a fan of rural England, and may have held some of the prejudices of his time, despite (or indeed because of) his education. Also, Tolkien's utopic vision ignores the question of who will do the labor to support Bilbo and Frodo's lifestyle, not to mention all the dwarvish, elvish, and human royalty with whom they interact. I don't think Tolkien was trying to construct a realistic society, but rather a mythological one. I question whether Tolkien intended us to directly apply the wisdom of Middle-earth to the Primary World.
(This post was edited by Curious on Apr 21 2009, 7:32pm)
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squire
Gondolin
Apr 21 2009, 9:23pm
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The Druedain are probably a dead end in this regard
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As Curious said, they are too peripheral to the story to carry that kind of weight.
I think you might investigate the "naturalistic anarchy" of the Shire - here I disagree with Curious. Despite its rural Edwardian English gloss, the Shire actually has no central authority, no meaningful class structure, no working economy with accompanying inequities, and no ecological stresses despite intensive cultivation.
Compare that with the "pre-Christian pagan culture" of the Rohirrim, a kind of parody of pre-conquest Anglo-saxon England without Christianity: for all their inner goodness, the Riders are clannish (or tribal), uneducated, and warlike - with a rich oral and traditional culture based on horsemanship, nomadic herding and (somewhat contradictorily) small farm holdings.
Tolkien makes the interesting connection that the hobbits once spoke the same language as the Rohirrim, suggesting that the two cultures diverged somehow from a common ancestor or ancestral setting. In our terms, the hobbits are little Rohirrim who have given up war and taken up food and town-dwelling (i.e., mock-bourgeois).
I should think you could mine richly the early pre-Christian, pre-Roman northern European cultures for parallels with modern-day tribal societies - try Tacitus! - but I think you should restrict your anthropology to tribes as they were known in Tolkien's day, not ours - your conclusion might point out if any of the parallels still hold up today.
I don't know about Abbey. He might be one layer too much! Especially if he has an American-frontier-influenced outlook, never a promising lens for reading Tolkien.
squire online:
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Apr 21 2009, 10:31pm
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I think you could make your main case through the wording pervasive throughout Tolkien's writing, rather than through scenes or characters lifted out of that original wording. Tolkien quite comfortably refers to the sentience of woods, trees, mountains, rivers, weather, animals, stars, etc. just about everywhere you turn, integrated into his writings and speech, within his story and without. Someone merely referencing, from outside, what scholars so embarrassingly call "primitivism" (Thanks, guys!) would have set aside a paragraph or so to philosophize on the possibility of everything being alive and interconnected, as though it were a novel concept. Tolkien instead takes it for granted, treating it (quite fittingly, in my opinion) as too natural to comment on from an observer point of view.
Well, he does comment on Frodo appreciating a tree for who it really is, for the first time in Lorien. This is part of Frodo's journey in waking up to the real world, shedding the blinders of his civilization, learning to perceive as the elves perceive. Becoming one of the Wise, in other words, fit for Valinor. But one clearly gets a sense of Frodo learning a truth, not observing a "primitive" way of looking at the world.
(For the record, I don't know why so many people seem to find some sort of conflict between animism and Catholicism. St. Thomas Aquinas did not find the two incompatible. And if all creatures have their guardian angels, there must be some spiritual element worth guarding, wouldn't you think? That's not to mean the same thing as worshipping everything in sight--who worships everything that has a soul, even if they believe souls limited to men? It still all points to a Creator beyond it all.)
I'd recommend reading Tolkien's letters, and any biographical snippets that you come across. I don't think he just made this up for his stories, for fictional characters living in quaint times. He appreciated trees and caverns and the sea on a far more sophisticated and insightful level than would have been typical in his society.
As for who is more "primitive", we "noble savages" (at least in my tribe) understand and navigate five categories of reality (six if you count cyberspace.) Can the dominant culture say the same? If "primitive" means simpler, less developed, we are way ahead!
(I know, dear, you didn't choose the terminology which your professors insist upon. I'm not miffed at you. All the same, words have power, and periodically need examined--especially when they come from authority figures.)
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Apr 21 2009, 10:42pm
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Fatigue's starting to set in, or I'd help find quotes in the books. Can anyone else help out on this?
I can find, just in a casual perusal of the chapter, "Lothlorien", in the Ballentine edition of "The Fellowship of the Ring", a mention of Nimrodel's voice in the stream of the same name on page 440, the lingering spiritual presence of long-gone beaches and extinct sea-birds on page 445, and in the paragraph directly below that one, the reference I was looking for, about Frodo putting his hand on a tree and feeling the life within it in a new and more insightful way. (You might try that, yourself, as an experiment, putting your hand on a tree and feeling its aliveness through your palm. It would not only aid in the understanding of Tokien, but also of Creation.) And that's barely trying.
Anybody else have some favorite examples? Anywhere in Tolkien's writings or reported words?
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Apr 21 2009, 10:52pm
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I'm too tired to look these up, but if anybody else wants to get the cites, that would be lovely. - Goldberry being the River Woman's daughter
- Caradhras having a name for evil on his own account
- The fox remarking on the passage of hobbits through the woods.
- Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli singing about messages from the north, south, and west winds, but snubbing the east wind on purpose.
- Trees needing shepherds, and ents being those shepherds.
- Old Man Willow's envy and resentment of creatures who can walk.
- Sam reflecting that at least the Dead Marshes would see some disheveled ghost of spring, when he later encounters land that Sauron has wholly killed. (The implication being that land is something that one can murder--which the dominant culture is finally discovering is true.)
- Tolkien's outrage, in his letters at the mutilation and eventual execution of a tree that committed no crime.
- Various rivers in the Silmarillion having character traits.
I'm sure that there are many, many more examples. But these are enough to begin with.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Apr 21 2009, 11:17pm
Post #7 of 16
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Fatty Bolger and the Monkey Wrench Gang?
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There might be some connections made between Tolkien and Abbey in Defending Middle-earth by Patrick Curry, which (in part) addresses LOTR in environmentalist grounds.
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Apr 22 2009, 12:31am
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it's great to see you here. :) I was wondering just last week if we'd ever see a UVM student on the discussion boards again, so your post is timely!
When you have written your paper, would you mind posting it here on TORN? It'd make for a great discussion when you have all your conclusions nailed down, and it'd be interesting to see where you take this.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
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Solwara
Registered User
Apr 22 2009, 3:17am
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Dreamdeer: Not to turn this into a discussion of semantics, but I'm curious as to your objection to the phrase "noble savage". It's not term targeted at modern day animists, nor ever used characterize so-called "primitive" peoples (now that phrase I would have an objection to, but I don't think the term "primitivism" is an issue, as it originates from an historical cult / philosophy, and is the most convenient way to express the encompassed set of beliefs: mainly, a rejection of authority and a return to nature), but rather is used to describe the discredited philosophy that humans in their "natural state" are pure, innocent etc., and the overly romantic view of aforementioned peoples. Perhaps I misunderstand your objections?
In any case, Tolkien presents Ghan-buri-Ghan as a "noble savage". Wild in appearence and crude in communication, he is nonetheless given lines that are meant to indicate wisdom. There are countless parallel examples in literature of the bygone colonial era.
I plan on drawing heavily from Tolkien's readily apparent appreciation of the natural world and its interconnectedness.
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Solwara
Registered User
Apr 22 2009, 3:35am
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About Abbey: The initial inspiration for including him came from something I read somewhere once upon a time about Tolkien sympathizing with those who resort to sabotage to protect trees. Perhaps someone knows to what I am referring?
I'm not really sure what to do with him yet, though I like the idea of portraying him as an extreme example of thoughts that might have been lurking in Tolkien's head -- someone who more or less acted to reject industrial "civilization" to get closer to nature.
The biggest contradiction I see lies in Tolkien's own beliefs about the natural world. For all his love of green and growing things, he also seems to like them well-ordered. Take, for instance, towards the end of ROTK, when Gandalf, in Bree, promises that the blasted wildlands to the north will soon be populous civilized farm communities. The frontier WILL be tamed, now that a King has come along.
But that doesn't explain the presence of Tom Bombadil, so I'm not really sure.
(I'll be happy to post the final essay)
(This post was edited by Solwara on Apr 22 2009, 3:36am)
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Dreamdeer
Doriath
Apr 22 2009, 4:06am
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I was actually rather amused by the "noble savage" label. (I once met an Indian rights activist who always signed her letters, "Savagely Yours".) I squirm a little with "primitivism", but perhaps I did not understand the sense by which it's meant. Personally I prefer the concept of Indigenous Science (see http://www.wisn.org/ ) but of course you need to use whatever words your professor will understand.
Or, to be more specific, here's how Apela Colorado defines the term:
Colorado, Apela: �Indigenous Science and Western Science: A Healing Convergence.� Presentation at the World Sciences Dialog I. New York City, April 25-27, 1994
- The indigenous scientist is an integral part of the research process and there is a defined process for insuring this integrity.
- All of nature is considered to be intelligent and alive, thus an active research partner.
- The purpose of indigenous science is to maintain balance.
- Compared to western time/space notions, indigenous science collapses time and space with the result that our fields of inquiry and participation extend into and overlap with past and present.
- Indigenous science is concerned with relationships; we try to understand and complete our relationships with all living things.
- Indigenous science is holistic, drawing on all the senses including the spiritual and psychic.
- The end point of an indigenous scientific process is a known and recognized place. This point of balance, referred to by my own tribe as the Great Peace, is both peaceful and electrifyingly alive. In the joy of exact balance, creativity occurs, which is why we can think of our way of knowing as a life science.
- When we reach the moment/place of balance we do not believe that we have transcended -- we say that we are normal! Always we remain embodied in the natural world.
- Humor is a critical ingredient of all truth seeking, even in the most powerful rituals. This is true because humor balances gravity.
Is that what you mean by primitivism? The belief that all things are intelligent and alive? And that it is better to live in harmony with nature than striving to conquer it? If so, then Tolkien definitely was primitive in the very best sense of the word!
As far as people settling in the wilds, much would depend on how they settle. If they engage in wildfarming, for instance (see http://www.wildfarmalliance.org/) that would not conflict with Tolkien's beliefs at all. However, Tolkien apparently was not so optimistic. He often expressed a view that all things decay, and "progress" usually is not an improvement. Gandalf may speak encouragingly to Butterbur about settlements coming, but elsewhere Tolkien implies that men eventually drive hobbits into hiding, making them a secretive folk who hide at the sound of "Big folk".
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
(This post was edited by Dreamdeer on Apr 22 2009, 4:06am)
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squire
Gondolin
Apr 22 2009, 4:10am
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That's a big difference between England and the USA
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As you perceived Tolkien generally follows the pastoral tradition which honors a tamed nature, made useful for man yet untainted by the sins and venality of the cities. What most Europeans don't get or like is the "frontier" beyond which lies a truly wild nature. (Thus their fascination with the noble savage, a romantic construct rather than an anthropological condemnation - American Indians were outside the bounds of their social imaginations, which encompassed only city folk and country folk). Tolkien's unacknowledged ambiguity about wild forests has been written about by Flieger among others - at times he likes and defends them, at other times they play as his villains. Tolkien's famous line about his "always taking the part of trees" has to taken with a grain of salt.
Tom Bombadil, once characterized by Tolkien as the spirit of the Oxfordshire countryside, keeps his land very well-ordered. Note the transition when the hobbits leave the Old Forest and enter his territory - the grass is clipped like a golf course.
Tolkien certainly dreamed of revenge for various acts of violence against trees he loved - that was one of the inspirations for the Ents' sacking of Isengard. But I never heard that he condoned law-breaking as practiced by the radical tree-huggers. For an overview of the argument about Tolkien's ecological consciousness in the context of the modern-day Green movement, you might read Patrick Curry's Defending Middle-earth: Tolkien, Myth, and Modernity (2nd ed. 2004); and then some rebuttals of Curry's "Tolkien is Green" argument from a more medieval-oriented point of view, by Verlyn Flieger ("J. R. R. Tolkien and the Matter of Britain", Mythlore 23 (2000)) and Alfred Siewers ("Tolkien's Cosmic-Christian Ecology: The Medieval Underpinnings" in Tolkien's Modern Middle Ages, eds. Chance and Siewers (2005)).
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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Solwara
Registered User
Apr 22 2009, 2:46pm
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Thanks for the information -- I think indigenous science is a great term for it -- but I'd still argue primitivism is more appropriate for Tolkien, coming from an aged academic European background rather than a modern practical one. (By the way, I noticed you live in the Sonoran -- I used to live on the outskirts of E. Tuscon. Cool.)
The point about the clear boundaries around Bombadil's land is quite enlightening, thanks.
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Curious
Gondolin
Apr 22 2009, 3:09pm
Post #14 of 16
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which seems wild enough, is tended by Ent shepherds, and therefore is more like the "wilds" of pastoral England -- say the Lake District -- than the wilds of the forest primeval.
In The Silmarillion Arda's forest primeval was an artificial Paradise, with the lamb lying down with the lion. It needed no tending because all creatures were tame. What the lion ate for dinner I can't imagine.
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simplyaven
Hithlum
Apr 24 2009, 2:27am
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I wholeheartedly agree with you that there are terms which came to life because they were needed and not because someone was bored. Not only for Tolkien but for many other pieces of art "primitivism" is the perfect term which carries lots of sense and meaning. But then, I'm European and a philologist - my fear is not of words but of attitudes. Human ones.
On your question - if you have the time and/or like literary theory, I'd suggest Lessing. "Laocoon" mostly although I particularly like some of his essays like "On Literature and Nature". However, I don't find the essay on Google. It may be included in a biiger book with collected works or something. Still, "Laocoon" is an interesting approach although it won't fit your topic exactly. It would give you a broader perspective, if you like literary theory, IMO.
Good luck and don't forget to share it! 
Culinary journey through Middle Earth continues! Join us on April 30th on the Main board for the renewed thread!
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Ossiriand
Apr 24 2009, 5:07pm
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Tolkien suggests many things with the way each race is treated, but ultimately those who leave their 'primitive' environments and grow beyond the means of their homeland cultures are better for it - and become recognized heroes by higher races.
Forgive my brief answer, but if I explain further I might start tipping the conspiracy scales. The subject primitive depiction is close to my heart as I've studied Eurocentric tendencies of ethnography and race classification for film.
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