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The One Ring Forums:
Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Fairy-tale king :
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noWizardme
Gondolin
Mar 21, 5:39pm
Views: 33044
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OK so here comes a tangent (I did say I'd be happy with a meandering discussion!)
Thinking about Aragorn as a fairy-tale king, and squire's comment (already cited by Eldy) that:
Tolkien knew as much as the next medievalist did about the nature of European settlements, trade, and realms, etc. in pre-modern times, when he considered how to frame his Middle-earth version of those lands.
But then he ignored what he knew, as needed for his stories.
squire here
That had me thinking about a quote from GRR Martin.
Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?
...
The war that Tolkien wrote about was a war for the fate of civilization and the future of humanity, and that’s become the template. I’m not sure that it’s a good template, though. The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.
GRR Martin quoted by Shaun Gunner on the Tolkien Society Website. The link to the original Rolling Stone interview has broken
Now my reason for quoting this is not to invite criticism of Martin, by anyone feeling they have to defend Tolken (or Aragoorn). I think Martin can see that Aragorn does not have to have a tax policy (etc.) : that's firstly because of the fairy-tale nature of Middle-earth. And secondly because of how Tolkien has framed the story. The action stops before the problems Martin lists - which would of course affect a real ruler in Aragorn's situation - take effect. Somewhere (maybe someone can remember where) Tolkien talks about fairy-tale needing to stop and start at the right points of a narrative. A narrative that could be continued pseudo-historically, but probably shouldn't be, artistically.
It's clear, I think, that Martin is explaining how he decided to do something other than splashing along the mainstream Tolkien created. A few years ago some of us here discussed some critics of Tolkien (starting with Michael Morcock) The usual problem was that (as Tolkien himself pointed out The Lord of the Rings is one of those things/ If you like it you do, if you don't then you boo). I think GRR Martin here shows that he isn't booing, just explining how and why he chose to investigate what happens if he did something different to a work I think he's understood pretty well. (Which he certainly did!)
Tha's where I plan to leave GRR Martin for this post, and go back to Aragorn. Thinking of Aragorn the fairy-tale king I'm also reminded of our last LOTR readthrough (back in 2016) and this point; the last time we see Aragorn in live narration rather than appendices:
The hobbits and their remaining companions part company with Aragorn and his court:
Quote
"With that they parted, and it was then the time of sunset; and when after a while they turned and looked back, they saw the King of the West sitting upon his horse with his knights about him; and the falling Sun shone upon them and made all their harness to gleam like red gold, and the white mantle of Aragorn was turned to a flame. Then Aragorn took the green stone and held it up, and there came a green fire from his hand."
Firstly, that's quite a piece of writing!
Secondly, from Aragorn's POV the others are literally riding off into the sunset: but I'm not sure we often get this view: the view looking back.
Thirdly it's as if their long-time friend and comrade Aragorn is turning into a legendary Arthurian King.
contribution by me to the chapter discussion of Many Partings, led by Mironiel I don't know whether Tolkien had in mind that effect I suggest as 'Thirdly', but it works for me!
~~~~~~
"I am not made for querulous pests." Frodo 'Spooner' Baggins.
(This post was edited by noWizardme on Mar 21, 5:40pm)
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Edit Log:
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Post edited by noWizardme
(Gondolin) on Mar 21, 5:40pm
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