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Arannir
Doriath
Aug 23 2022, 1:33pm
Post #1 of 44
(2371 views)
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https://youtu.be/x8UAUAuKNcU
I really liked a lot of what we saw these last weeks.
This trailer is pretty dreadful, though.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Aug 23 2022, 1:38pm)
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LordGawain
Ossiriand
Aug 23 2022, 1:50pm
Post #2 of 44
(2299 views)
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I've been pretty optimistic about this show, especially since the previous trailer came out. At Comic Con the people involved in the making of this show showed a good understanding of the books, I felt. And the soundtrack, released a couple of days ago, is beautiful.
But this trailer is just pretty horrible. As a piece of editing it feels very generic. The music selection is in stark contrast with the previous marketing. Most of the dialogue here seems pretty badly written. A lot of the action, like the chain in between the horses, seems impractical at best (because let's be honest, it just looks unfeasable that the riders would not be pulled off their horses).
Let's hope these things work better in context.
Half a league, half a league, half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death, rode the six hundred.
'Forward, the Light Brigade! Charge for the guns' he said:
Into the valley of Death rode the six hundred.
Theirs not to make reply, theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death rode the six hundred.
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Arannir
Doriath
Aug 23 2022, 1:54pm
Post #3 of 44
(2289 views)
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... like there is a lot of debate and uncertainty going on at Amazon how to market this.
The show must prove now that it can stand on its feet and is not just a money tent pole by Amazon.
My faith in the team has grown. But trailers like this remind me that there is a big company behind it which relies on algorithms and stuff. The trailer feels like it was produced by one for sure. Let's hope the feeling of the show has nothing to do with this trailer (judging from the OST, it should at least sound a lot better, though).
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Narvi
Menegroth
Aug 23 2022, 1:58pm
Post #4 of 44
(2276 views)
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Still, I quite enjoyed it. The music synced up quite well with the visuals. The main issue for me was the selection of specific scenes to emphasize and the choice to portray Galadriel as someone who was driven by the need to carry on her brother's quest, as if she doesn't have her own internal motivation or personality ("without it, who am I to be?).
In spite of this, I was excited to see a few glimpses of plotlines neglected in the other trailers and tv spots:
the succession crisis in Khazad-dum (it seems entirely driven by Durin IV's self-doubt, hence his need for validation by wife and father);
the Southlands romance (I find this plotline the most difficult to track);
the Harfoots/Stranger journey (which appears to take them all over the place, in true nomad fashion. I'm yet to be convinced that they're in Beforedor)
the Haladriel relationship (clearly she is attempting to redeem him from some horrible past crime, and he is not entirely sure he'd like to be redeemed)
Sidenote: the wargs look great. Very prehistoric.
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skyofcoffeebeans
Nargothrond
Aug 23 2022, 2:06pm
Post #5 of 44
(2262 views)
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Queue outrage over mainstream marketing
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This trailer is designed for broad market appeal, hence the reliance on an outdated trailer musical trope to appeal to mainstream viewers.
There were a lot of fun new things to spot (wargs!), but it was a bit hard for me to not be distracted by the music.
I agree with a lot of the analysis in here in that Amazon isn't sure how to market this coherently. My assumption is they feel they've won over who they need to in the hardcore Tolkien base and are now courting viewers outside of that base.
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LordGawain
Ossiriand
Aug 23 2022, 2:13pm
Post #6 of 44
(2243 views)
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Trailers like this remind me that there is a big company behind it which relies on algorithms and stuff. The trailer feels like it was produced by one for sure.
Exactly. There's a lot here that could work when placed in context. But this just feels like a marketing team that is mostly aware that the new game of thrones prequel show started this week, looked at that show's old marketing, found this very popular season 2 trailer that was very well recieved at the time:
https://www.youtube.com/...nel=NiallO%27Donnell
They then looked for a Florence and the machine like song, isolated some dialogue that sounded dramatic and took some shots of characters staring intensely, some wide shots and some actiony bits and followed the blueprint of HBO's marketing for Game of Thrones.
Doesn't really say anything about the quality of the show. But I do wish the showrunners had more of a say in the marketing campaign.
Half a league, half a league, half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death, rode the six hundred.
'Forward, the Light Brigade! Charge for the guns' he said:
Into the valley of Death rode the six hundred.
Theirs not to make reply, theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death rode the six hundred.
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skyofcoffeebeans
Nargothrond
Aug 23 2022, 2:15pm
Post #7 of 44
(2236 views)
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This almost paints a picture of a corporation frightened by HBO's numbers from Sunday.
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Eruonen
Gondolin
Aug 23 2022, 2:48pm
Post #8 of 44
(2192 views)
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I remain somewhat optimistic based on the look and design. Will have to wait and see the story lines.
I have no problem with Galadriel seeking vengeance - it is a motive more numerous male characters have had in film and book. The plate armour is out of time sequence.
I am hoping the acting will set aside some casting misgivings....or some characters have needed backstory.
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Arannir
Doriath
Aug 23 2022, 2:52pm
Post #9 of 44
(2184 views)
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I like what we see.
I just think the music doesn't help the trailer at all. I see what they tried here but don't think it works at all.
Some of the new material looks great.
And I am.mire convinced than ever that we will see Mt Doom errupting I'm the finale of Season 1 (in the shot of Isildur, look behind him).
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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LordGawain
Ossiriand
Aug 23 2022, 3:16pm
Post #10 of 44
(2152 views)
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I remain somewhat optimistic based on the look and design. Will have to wait and see the story lines.
I have no problem with Galadriel seeking vengeance - it is a motive more numerous male characters have had in film and book. The plate armour is out of time sequence.
I am hoping the acting will set aside some casting misgivings....or some characters have needed backstory.
To be clear, I like what I see as well, I'm looking forward towards finally watching it soon, and I have enjoyed the marketing so far. My gripes are just with this trailer. Can't wait for september!
Half a league, half a league, half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death, rode the six hundred.
'Forward, the Light Brigade! Charge for the guns' he said:
Into the valley of Death rode the six hundred.
Theirs not to make reply, theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death rode the six hundred.
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LordGawain
Ossiriand
Aug 23 2022, 4:50pm
Post #11 of 44
(2046 views)
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Having watched it a couple of times now, I might have been a bit harsh on the dialogue and the action. It actually looks and sounds pretty good to me. I think during my first viewing I was more thrown of by the music than I realized.
Half a league, half a league, half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death, rode the six hundred.
'Forward, the Light Brigade! Charge for the guns' he said:
Into the valley of Death rode the six hundred.
Theirs not to make reply, theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death rode the six hundred.
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Narvi
Menegroth
Aug 23 2022, 5:07pm
Post #12 of 44
(2030 views)
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The GoT precedent was difficult to ignore. I like what I’ve seen of the action so far as well. I still think the snippets of dialogue that we’ve seen so far are difficult to judge because they’re so brief and obv part of longer conversations.
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DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Aug 23 2022, 5:48pm
Post #13 of 44
(2002 views)
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I like what we see.
Just to remind everyone how I feel about this sort of evaluation, don't let the bright lights seduce you. It's about a faithful adaptation of Tolkien's story.
As an aside, is there any possible defensive or offensive advantage to being able to twirl your sword like a fancy-pants cheerleader and her baton?
Overall, Galadriel is powerful. What does she need with such crude physicality as fighting and sword play? An ant could raise its fists at me, if it had any, as I step on it but does it matter? Do I need to fight it? In Star Trek, it's well known (among Trekkies) that Leonard Nimoy suggested to the director of the episode where they introduced the Vulcan Neck Pinch that instead of Spock knocking out a character with a brute force physical impact (punch, karate or whatever), as it was scripted, he do something more Vulcan, more graceful, more gentle instead. Nimoy's invention achieved the same purpose and advanced or enhanced character development, even development of the race. Otherwise, he'd just be just another brute instead of an intellectual force.
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Aug 23 2022, 5:48pm)
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Felagund
Mithlond
Aug 23 2022, 6:20pm
Post #14 of 44
(1973 views)
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that's it then and now just a few more sleeps :)
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I thought it was okay. Similar action-orientated saga drama editing to that of some of its predecessors.
In terms of content, I take it we're seeing Meteor Man face off against proto-wargs and, if there's a link between that scene and the last one with him in it, he uses some kind of elemental (tempest?) and/or aural power to deal with them? I acknowledge I could be connecting two completely unrelated scenes! And is all this bonding stuff with the Harfoots setting us up for Meteor Man retiring to what becomes the Old Forest, where he'll later hang out with Farmer Maggot and rescue the hapless descendants of those Harfoots who once showed him such hospitality ;)
And I see that the glimpse of who I take to be the 'Adar' character includes a shot of his pointy (ie. Elven) ears. Please don't let it be a long lost brother of Galadriel...!
Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Mithlond
Aug 23 2022, 6:53pm
Post #15 of 44
(1944 views)
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It's 2:2 in terms of trailers for me
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Well somehow those RoP trailers are a strange breed. After I have been very vocal about disliking the very first Teaser Trailer I really, really liked the Main Teaser as well as the Comic Con Trailer it is a tie now for me because this Official Trailer didn't do it. Or at least it didn't change anything and didn't tell or show us anything we haven't known or seen before which brings up the question of: Why do we need it anyway?
After having two teasers/trailers using original music by Bear McCreary this one is definitely a letdown. Especially a week after the soundtracks release. I also don't like how the dialogue is cut here. It's very cheesy especially together with that musical choice... But this won't be the case within the show at least.
Well ok enough dislikes. To quote Padmé Amidalas last words before she died in REVENGE OF THE SITH: There's still good in him:
+ The visuals: The show looks stunning. Great cinematography! Lindon, the sea worm, the frozen wasteland, the NZ nature in general, the CGI works good and then there's Numenor...
+ Numenor: I want to go there! The buildings, the harbor with all the trading going on, the fishermen in the background. It looks alive and like a real place. And I really like the recurring motive of the "fish scales" in the different costumes and armor. For me as someone who grew up near the coast: I want to go there immediately!
+ Mystics: I am still very intrigued by the white hooded cultists and wonder what their part is. They look evil of course but what's their goal?
+ The new Warg-design looks interesting. After the hyenas in LOTR and the pure wolfs in TH now they look like a mix between wolf, horse and wild boar.
I am really looking forward to the show because I've seen, read and heard a lot of great stuff over the last weeks but this trailer didn't increase my anticipation unfortunately. Amazon should probably overthink their marketing department strategy.
On a sidenote: One thing that you can always rely on are amazingly creative and fun hate and troll comments under a ROP trailer.
"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."
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Arannir
Doriath
Aug 23 2022, 9:00pm
Post #16 of 44
(1849 views)
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Don't want to come across aggressive.
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It is not meant that way... But personally I neither need to be told what not to be seduced by nor what "it's about".
Personally, I am looking for a grand tale set in Tolkien's world. A return to Arda on screen.
What that is about for me might be very different to many others. And thank God most people cannot claim to be an objective judge on what Tolkien would be all about. Imho they have shown more than just "bright lights" over the last weeks.
I share your caution in general, though. Some aspects still.worry me....the lackluster marketing belongs to them.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Archestratie
Nargothrond
Aug 23 2022, 10:02pm
Post #19 of 44
(1798 views)
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I like what we see. Just to remind everyone how I feel about this sort of evaluation, don't let the bright lights seduce you. It's about a faithful adaptation of Tolkien's story.
All the talk of faith and resilience in the trailer certainly line up with Tolkien's thematic ideals. So in that department, if this show actually holds to that, I think they are expressing fidelity to the author.
My Low-Magic Fantasy Novel on eBook/hardback: The Huntsman and the She-Wolf
The Huntsman and the She-Wolf on audio Book.
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Stranger Wings
Ossiriand
Aug 23 2022, 10:04pm
Post #20 of 44
(1795 views)
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The best trailer in terms of cinematography and visuals. I don’t know what they did, but everything from lighting to shot composition just looks more natural and artistic, and less action adventure video game. A lot more color grading since the last trailer? Some absolutely stunning shots in here - especially love the one of the Stranger with the trees bending around him.
For so many, however, an absolutely baffling song choice undercut all that beauty.
Why do that?
Trailer Is Great. What Is That Song? (Tigwits)
“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul
(This post was edited by Stranger Wings on Aug 23 2022, 10:09pm)
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Scalpy
Nevrast
Aug 23 2022, 10:27pm
Post #21 of 44
(1769 views)
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And please appreciate 'my opinion'...
This looks absolutely bloody awful. The dialogue, the costumes, the non-CGI effects and sets, the theme, the music.
Again - this is my opinion based upon what I have seen.
When this show was first announced I was SO excited to see a return to Tolkien's world on screen. I immediately followed the Facebook page and was desperate for any and all news on the show. But right now I'm at the stage that I feel absolutely deflated by the whole project.
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Furcorn
Lindon
Aug 23 2022, 10:39pm
Post #22 of 44
(1757 views)
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I'm intrigued by the bling, name and plot drops, and remote similarity to Tolkien. But... omg what a disaster of epic girl-power pandering. See Fall of Mankind and what could have been.
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DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Aug 24 2022, 12:17am
Post #23 of 44
(1710 views)
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This almost paints a picture of a corporation frightened by HBO's numbers from Sunday.
When it was online. (For those who don't know, HBO crashed from the premier demand).
It greatly amuses me to think that HBOs streaming servers run on AWS (Amazon Web Services). I don't know that it's true, and I doubt it's true, but I can have my fantasies. Doing too well? Zap!.
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Bladerunner
Mithlond
Aug 24 2022, 1:28am
Post #24 of 44
(1679 views)
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The chain between the horses....
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...immediately reminded me of the scene in the Walking Dead S7.E9 in which Rick and Michonne drive two cars attached by a metal cable that they use to plow through a horde of zombies.
It seems derivative.
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Bladerunner
Mithlond
Aug 24 2022, 2:51am
Post #25 of 44
(1648 views)
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.. - "My brother gave his life hunting the enemy. His task is now mine," is not an accurate representation nor even a simplification of Finrod's actual experience or motivations as presented by Tolkien.
In actuality the events leading to his death were far more complex.
He gave his life while fulfilling his oath to Barahir (who had saved his during the Battle of Sudden Flame) and his "task" was accompanying Beren in his quest to retrieve a Silmaril. Following are some excerpts:
"...Thus Felagund escaped, and returned to his deep fortress in Nargothrond; but he swore an oath of abiding friendship and aid in every need to Barahir and all of his kin, and in token of his vow, he gave to Barahir his ring."
"...And Felagund seeing that he was forsaken took from his head the silver crown of Nargothrond and cast it at his feet saying, 'Your oaths of faith to me you may break, but I must hold my bond. Yet if there be any on whom the shadow of our curse has not yet fallen, I should find at least a few to follow me, and should not go hence as a beggar that is thrust from the gates.' There were ten that stood by him; and the chief of them who was named Edrahil, stooping lifted the crown and asked that it be given to a steward until Felagund's return. 'For you remain my king and theirs,' he said, 'whatever betide.'
Then Felagund gave the crown of Nargothrond to Orodreth his brother to govern in his stead; and Celegorm and Curufin said nothing, but they smiled and went from the halls.
On the evening of autumn Felgund and Beren set out from Nargothrond with their ten companions;..."
"He died then in the dark, in Tol-in-Gaurhoth, whose great tower he himself had built. Thus King Finrod Felagund, fairest and most beloved of the house of Finwe, redeemed his oath; but Beren mourned beside him in despair."
The complete passages of this part of the story are some of the most poignant in the Silmarillion and have been distilled into a simple inaccurate statement in the latest trailer.
In reading just a few passages of the Silmarillion, it is a stark reminder that as of yet, none of dialogue that has been included in the trailers rises to the level of Tolkien's writing.
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