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Eruonen
Half-elven
Oct 25 2015, 4:19am
Post #26 of 44
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Crossbow bolts sometimes have flights that induce spin
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http://www.themcs.org/...ssbows/crossbows.htm
Very similar other than size. So, some trailing chains might whip around with the spiral motion. An experiment needs to be completed. Maybe a crossbow bolt could be modified....not sure how the chain would be placed for the firing without it interfering with the mechanism.
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Oct 25 2015, 4:20am)
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Bofur01
Lorien
Oct 25 2015, 11:08am
Post #27 of 44
(3110 views)
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I assume you know what that means :p
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Susan
Bree
Oct 25 2015, 4:21pm
Post #28 of 44
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For me, "the old" implies a sort of familiarity (or assumed familiarity), especially in this context, but it definitely could be interpreted differently  .
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adt100
Rohan
Oct 25 2015, 7:07pm
Post #29 of 44
(3025 views)
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Nah he definitely refers to the weapons as Twirly Whirlies
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100% in reference to the weapons. Could just be Connelly's thick Scottish accent that make it harder to identify for non-Brits, but he's definitely saying 'how'd you like that, the old twirly whirlies' relating to the weapons.
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LSF
Gondor
Oct 25 2015, 7:09pm
Post #30 of 44
(3023 views)
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The subtitles do say "you old"
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But I hear "the old" But either word makes sense, so... 
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nusilver
Rohan
Oct 25 2015, 7:18pm
Post #31 of 44
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100% in reference to the weapons. Could just be Connelly's thick Scottish accent that make it harder to identify for non-Brits, but he's definitely saying 'how'd you like that, the old twirly whirlies' relating to the weapons.
From the subtitles on the iTunes version:
"HEY! HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT, YOU OLD TWIRLY-WHIRLIES?!"
So again - NOT a reference to the weapons - it's an insult. He's not asking the weapons how they like their damage, because weapons are inanimate objects. The weapons are never named. End of discussion.
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer." - Samwise
(This post was edited by nusilver on Oct 25 2015, 7:19pm)
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adt100
Rohan
Oct 25 2015, 7:49pm
Post #32 of 44
(3012 views)
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Have to agree to disagree lol.
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I've just researched that scene 3 times and I'm sure he says "how'd you like that, the old twirly whirlies". I've always heard it as that and it makes perfect sense has it describes the weapons accurately and in a characteristically (for the movie Dain) jokey manner. He follows it up by saying "ya buggers" in reference to the Elves. It would be odd to call them one derogatory name followed immediately by another in the same breathe.
Subtitles have been known to be wrong before. Either way, whether it's "you old twirly whirlies" or "the old twirly whirlies" it still makes more sense, certainly from a Connelly standpoint to be referencing the weapons.
(This post was edited by adt100 on Oct 25 2015, 7:52pm)
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AshNazg
Grey Havens
Oct 25 2015, 7:55pm
Post #33 of 44
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But AUJ subtitles say "scarf 'em" instead of "scoff 'em" among other mistakes //
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nusilver
Rohan
Oct 25 2015, 8:13pm
Post #34 of 44
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I've just researched that scene 3 times and I'm sure he says "how'd you like that, the old twirly whirlies". I've always heard it as that and it makes perfect sense has it describes the weapons accurately and in a characteristically (for the movie Dain) jokey manner. He follows it up by saying "ya buggers" in reference to the Elves. It would be odd to call them one derogatory name followed immediately by another in the same breathe.
Subtitles have been known to be wrong before. Either way, whether it's "you old twirly whirlies" or "the old twirly whirlies" it still makes more sense, certainly from a Connelly standpoint to be referencing the weapons.
If you're going to argue "from a Connelly standpoint" - he's insulted Thranduil, and by extension, the elves, in not discretely homophobic terms multiple times - woodland Sprite, pointy eared princess, and now "twirly whirlies," and then "buggers" - and I assume I don't need to explain the historical meaning of that word - to reference the perceived effeminate nature of elves in general. He insults them constantly. That's what makes Dain a unique character in this saga: he's a "good guy" who doesn't care about niceties. An anti-hero, you might say, because we root for him even when we don't like him.
Further, it makes no sense to say "how do you like that, the old twirly whirlies?" either from a dialogue standpoint (perhaps you can point to another example anywhere in the screenplay where a character says something along the lines of "hello! I hit you with the weapon!") or from a grammatical standpoint - if he were referring to the weapons, he would have said "how do you like *those*, the old twirly whirlies?" - because "that" is singular and "twirly-whirlies" is plural. Are Jackson and Boyens frequently guilty of breaking basic rules of grammar with their "civilized" characters? Never once before that I can recall.
In any case - I've accepted that the official dialogue - per a released copy of the film I have access to and you, I assume, don't unless you've got a US iTunes/similar account - but I could be wrong - says "twirly-whirlies," but there's absolutely nothing there that points to that as a reference to the weapons, and literally everything else pointing against it.
Now if you'd like to ask Connolly himself, or Jackson or Boyens? By all means. I'm sure everyone here would like to know what the weapons are called. You can keep referring to them as twirly-whirlies in the meantime.
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer." - Samwise
(This post was edited by nusilver on Oct 25 2015, 8:22pm)
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Bofur01
Lorien
Oct 25 2015, 8:24pm
Post #35 of 44
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The grammar complaints there are horribly wrong...
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The singular and plural forms of "the" in English are identical... e.g. "I kicked the cats".
And "those" is the plural of "that". It's the accusative plural of "this".
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nusilver
Rohan
Oct 25 2015, 8:25pm
Post #36 of 44
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The singular and plural forms of "the" in English are identical... e.g. "I kicked the cats".
And "those" is the plural of "that". It's the accusative plural of "this".
That's exactly what I wrote - you notice I edited it because I realized it came out as "the."
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer." - Samwise
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nusilver
Rohan
Oct 25 2015, 8:35pm
Post #37 of 44
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I've already presented the fact of the matter - the official dialogue from the film - and being obstinate because you prefer what you heard isn't going to chsnge that. And for anyone who thinks I'm making it up, check my Twitter (nvsblgamer) for a screenshot - I'm done trying to post images on this board.
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer." - Samwise
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nusilver
Rohan
Oct 25 2015, 8:55pm
Post #38 of 44
(2983 views)
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You should probably all know I'm not being intentionally antagonistic - though I don't understand the obstinacy - it's just that I've had hiccups for 24 hours and it's driving me a little batty.
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer." - Samwise
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Oct 25 2015, 9:19pm
Post #39 of 44
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When he says "how do you like that,....the old Twirly Whirlies?" it's grammatically correct, the same as saying "take that!" You wouldn't say "take those!" when referring to the "Twirly Whirlies" even though they are plural. IMO, Dain is asking how Thranduil likes the effect caused by the weapons.
Subtitle can be, and are wrong on occasions. They were more than likely typed up by someone in Warner Bros US who is not au fait with a scottish brogue. <shrug>
Further, it makes no sense to say "how do you like that, the old twirly whirlies?" either from a dialogue standpoint (perhaps you can point to another example anywhere in the screenplay where a character says something along the lines of "hello! I hit you with the weapon!") or from a grammatical standpoint - if he were referring to the weapons, he would have said "how do you like *those*, the old twirly whirlies?" - because "that" is singular and "twirly-whirlies" is plural. Are Jackson and Boyens frequently guilty of breaking basic rules of grammar with their "civilized" characters? Never once before that I can recall.
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
(This post was edited by Eleniel on Oct 25 2015, 9:25pm)
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Oct 25 2015, 9:24pm
Post #40 of 44
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Regardless of what the subtitles say, I don't think that there is any question at all that he is referring to the weapons as Twirly Whirlies. That is the only way that it makes any sense.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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mirkwoodwanderer
Lorien
Oct 26 2015, 9:03pm
Post #41 of 44
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he does not call the weapons like that
the subtitles show it
and you can clearly hear it..
he says "you" and not "the"
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nusilver
Rohan
Oct 31 2015, 4:47pm
Post #42 of 44
(2827 views)
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I concede: you are correct :-)
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After all my obstinance -- again, supported by the subtitles!! -- I have to concede you were correct! In the appendices, which I'm now watching for a second time, PJ says "we could think of no name for them" (what are described as crossbow bolts which spin and cut down arrows) "so we just called them twirly-whirlies."
You're right! I'm sorry. 
"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer." - Samwise
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adt100
Rohan
Nov 29 2015, 1:06pm
Post #43 of 44
(2746 views)
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I was watching the appendices and remembered this post....
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As PJ confirms, they couldn't think of a name for them so called them 'twirly whirlies'. It makes sense as that's a goid description for them. As I say, to me it was always fairly straightforward and I couldn't understand the fuss over and apparent confusion over the comment.
Case closed. :)
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adt100
Rohan
Nov 29 2015, 1:10pm
Post #44 of 44
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Sorry only just seen your comment here!
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I'd already written my above post as it the moment I got to that part in the appendices I remembered the debate here lol. Apology accepted. ;) I think we can all be quite nitpicky about such things and get strongly set in our own opinions!
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