|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ingwion
Menegroth
Oct 16 2016, 10:05pm
Post #26 of 76
(1333 views)
Shortcut
|
For me the only problem with the song is that the tune sounds too modern.
I also hate the modernness of the tune 
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.
It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
|
|
|
OldestDaughter
Nargothrond
Oct 16 2016, 10:39pm
Post #27 of 76
(1328 views)
Shortcut
|
but I can understand about the song. When I first saw it, I thought it was weird and as did my siblings and mom. Now, after seeing the movie a few more times, I can appreciate it.
When I first saw the Hobbit, I hadn't realized how Barry Humpries sounded, so I was expecting the Goblin King to have a raspy, scary, scratchy voice like a lot of the orcs had from LOTR's. I was surprised by how "normal" he sounded!
"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."
|
|
|
Ingwion
Menegroth
Oct 16 2016, 10:41pm
Post #28 of 76
(1323 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The normality of his voice maybe subconsciously put me off too //
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.
It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
|
|
|
OldestDaughter
Nargothrond
Oct 16 2016, 10:51pm
Post #29 of 76
(1325 views)
Shortcut
|
I honestly liked the way it is, but I can understand that it can put some off because it doesn't really match his gross, creepy appearance. It almost as if the Goblin King is Middle-earth's own comedian!
"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Oct 16 2016, 11:53pm
Post #30 of 76
(1318 views)
Shortcut
|
As for the birds, Bard wasn't supposed to understand raven speech - the thrush was his bird. They found another way of letting him know Smaug's weak point but the thrush did seem to be communicating with Bilbo. Thorin was supposed to understand the raven and they made it very clear that he did understand it - and by implication Dain did too. They just didn't let us in on what it was saying. (The sequence with the raven was one of my favourite scenes)
Well, of course, in neither the book nor the films did Bard ever interact with any of the ravens. However, Tolkien made it clear that the ravens of Erebor were not using bird-speech with Bilbo and the Dwarves, but were speaking the common tongue (Westron). If Bard had heard them in the original story then he would have understood them.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
|
|
|
dormouse
Gondolin
Oct 17 2016, 8:04am
Post #31 of 76
(1292 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Fair enough, I'd forgotten that. //
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
|
|
|
mae govannen
Dor-Lomin
Oct 17 2016, 8:39am
Post #32 of 76
(1295 views)
Shortcut
|
|
A pure gem of a villain's characterization,
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
with precisely his ugly appearance (mostly due actually to his rather disfiguring and disgusting super-obesity) in total contrast with his visible efforts to look the part of the charming and talented artist he is obviously convinced and proud of being, both as a songwriter and as a singer...
And he is right to some extent: he has a good voice indeed, and his "Down-down-down in Goblin-town" is indeed "catchy", isn't it!!! Irresistible: I can't help but cheerfully sing along with him every time!... And laughing at the same time at his broad engaging smile and coquettishness, as he tries his best to impress his unexpected and probably rare new audience (even though they are mere Dwarves), with his compositions and his stylish presentation of them, attempts at dance included... The poor guy (!!!) must be bored to death of sitting there all the time with for only company this crowd of brutish lower Goblins, totally incapable of appreciating properly his immense talent, and hardly an audience at all except that they have to bear with him, or else... He is fishing for compliments, but when the Dwarves show stony faces and speak only disparaging comments, his smile vanishes at once and suddenly things get much more serious from his part...
Really, I find him quite an original and interesting villain in his own rather unique way, and it must have been fun for the actor to play his part, with these inner contrasting sides to express as sharply as they must be expressed for best effect.
I'd say, "Well done!" to those who refined this otherwise dull character with such welcome imagination and humour, while still staying in line with his description in the book... 
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
(This post was edited by mae govannen on Oct 17 2016, 8:43am)
|
|
|
dormouse
Gondolin
Oct 17 2016, 9:56am
Post #33 of 76
(1282 views)
Shortcut
|
Seeing it through your eyes I can almost be fond of the old villain!
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
|
|
|
mae govannen
Dor-Lomin
Oct 17 2016, 10:20am
Post #34 of 76
(1280 views)
Shortcut
|
"fond" of him myself - he could definitely turn into the sadistic type as well, just for revenge - but I do have some appreciation for him in a way: he is far from stupid, and the way he ridicules Thorin once he has recognized him, pretending at first to honour him with a flourish, and then within the next moment stripping him of all kingship and ending with a flat "You are a nobody, really..." shows that he really has wits, not just the plain vulgarity one would expect of some obscure Great Goblin down-down-down in his Goblin-town...
Thank you for letting yourself be "contagionned" by my (relative) praise of him!
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
(This post was edited by mae govannen on Oct 17 2016, 10:23am)
|
|
|
OldestDaughter
Nargothrond
Oct 17 2016, 12:15pm
Post #35 of 76
(1275 views)
Shortcut
|
Which I really enjoyed! And I must say, he almost had a dopey innocence to his character, even though he played the role of a villain. But compared to Azog, Smaug, Saruman and others, he really did seem more child-like in his moments.
He went down as one of my favorite Tolkien film villains!
"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."
|
|
|
Noria
Hithlum
Oct 17 2016, 12:21pm
Post #36 of 76
(1274 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I like neither the Goblin King nor his song.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
While the TE song is annoying, it’s supposed to be. However the character and performance in general annoy me for the wrong reasons.
I think that PJ’s love of excess and his admiration of Barry Humphries resulted in a Goblin King that is way, way too much.
Also, the Goblin King comes across as anachronistic to me; there is something too modern about the performance that doesn’t fit even in this updated movie version of Middle-earth. Now that some of you have mentioned it, it may very well be his voice and delivery.
No matter. I still love the movie.
|
|
|
Silmaril
Nargothrond
Oct 18 2016, 8:30am
Post #37 of 76
(1245 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Scenes like this ruined the movies for me...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
AUJ:
bunny sled chase
goblin king
etc
DOS:
barrel scene
toilet climbing
gold dwarf
smaug chase
etc
BOTFA:
Bard
Alfrid
Ironfoot
etc
|
|
|
Noria
Hithlum
Oct 18 2016, 12:06pm
Post #38 of 76
(1240 views)
Shortcut
|
What is it about Bard that you dislike?
I love these movies and most of the things you don't like about them either don't bother me or I really like (except for the Goblin King). However they are common criticisms and I have some understanding of why people feel that way. But dislike of Bard is not as widespread and I'd like to understand.
I also haven't heard of very much Dain hate.
|
|
|
Silmaril
Nargothrond
Oct 18 2016, 1:00pm
Post #39 of 76
(1233 views)
Shortcut
|
It's not the character of Bard, that's ok, but some action with him. The hilarious repair of his broken bow and the shooting of Smaug on the shoulder of his son. The prison escape which is in my opinion totally unrealistic and silly. The killing of the troll on his vehicle. The toilet climbing...
And Dain riding on a pig...anything else to say!?
|
|
|
Ingwion
Menegroth
Oct 18 2016, 5:08pm
Post #40 of 76
(1215 views)
Shortcut
|
with a bit of light humour in the adaptation of a children's book? I've no problem with the toilet sequence.
As for the archery, maybe it defies physics, but I don't see why that matters. The Ring-wraiths defy biology, do you have a problem with them?
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.
It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
|
|
|
Ingwion
Menegroth
Oct 18 2016, 5:19pm
Post #41 of 76
(1216 views)
Shortcut
|
What's wrong with riding on a pig? Is the most powerful dwarf in the north meant to walk? Or ride a horse???
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.
It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
|
|
|
DainPig
Mithlond
Oct 18 2016, 5:55pm
Post #42 of 76
(1205 views)
Shortcut
|
Wha is wrong with the toilet climbing scenes? No, serious question, what is in your mind to think that hilarious scene is terrible?
|
|
|
TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Nargothrond
Oct 18 2016, 6:40pm
Post #43 of 76
(1203 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I don't think there is a humorous moment in any of these movies
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
That had me laughing as hard as I was when I first heard Tilda say, "Will they bring us luck?!" No idea why it struck me as much as it did, but that is funny to me.
(This post was edited by TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense on Oct 18 2016, 6:41pm)
|
|
|
Silmaril
Nargothrond
Oct 18 2016, 8:04pm
Post #44 of 76
(1185 views)
Shortcut
|
but I just think that these scenes do not fit. In my opinion the movies do not catch the heart of the book as LOTR did.
|
|
|
Ingwion
Menegroth
Oct 18 2016, 8:41pm
Post #45 of 76
(1177 views)
Shortcut
|
It is a lighthearted children's novel, so even though the movies are aimed at an older audience, some lighthearted humour is allowed in occasionally.
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.
It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
(This post was edited by Ingwion on Oct 18 2016, 8:41pm)
|
|
|
Silmaril
Nargothrond
Oct 19 2016, 4:50am
Post #46 of 76
(1152 views)
Shortcut
|
I have read the book several times and I love it, and its humour. But the bad jokes of Radagast and Kili are not of this kind. I enjoyed the funny scenes in Bag End but not stuff like this.
This mix of children book and adult stuff you mentioned does not work for me too. In LOTR the book was always present. The Hobbit is an action movie with some book scenes....believe me it hurts. I wish I could love these films with my full heart!
|
|
|
DainPig
Mithlond
Oct 19 2016, 5:47am
Post #47 of 76
(1153 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Lotr had some silly moments too
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Gimli farting was one of them. In fact, the whole Gimli character was pure cringe. Why use him as a comic relief? We already have Marry-Peregrin and Gandalf, we don't need the stupid dwarf. Gimli was supposed to be the badass, not the retarded one.
|
|
|
mae govannen
Dor-Lomin
Oct 19 2016, 5:59am
Post #48 of 76
(1140 views)
Shortcut
|
that I am not the only one to have enjoyed his flamboyant 'artist' temperament!!!  I have to check who is the actor who managed this rather unusual role so well that he became almost endearing... or at least, as you say, a favorite villain! 
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
(This post was edited by mae govannen on Oct 19 2016, 6:00am)
|
|
|
Silmaril
Nargothrond
Oct 19 2016, 6:34am
Post #49 of 76
(1139 views)
Shortcut
|
I had some problems with Gimli in the beginning. The german voice of Bud Spencer and his jokes were quite unfitting in the beginning, but I liked it after a few screenings somehow.
But the jokes are not the main reason why I dislike the Hobbit movies. If this would be all there would be no problem for me. It's the BIG SCENES with the gold dwarf, forges/smaug chase, barrel escape and bunny sled chase/orc running which ruined it for me.
|
|
|
dormouse
Gondolin
Oct 19 2016, 8:02am
Post #50 of 76
(1136 views)
Shortcut
|
The golden statue is one of my favourite moments. There's a shot of Smaug gazing at the statue just before the molten gold breaks through which says everything about his love for gold. I think the idea was creative genuis on Alan Lee's part - coming from someone who really knows and understands the books it gives a visual expression to everything Tolkien writes about the lure of and lust for gold. The whole sequence also provides a sudden, unexpected glimpse of 'Smaug the Golden' - literally - and that magical image of the dragon spiralling up into the night sky, shedding gold.
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
|
|
|
|
|
