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wonderinglinguist
Menegroth
Jan 20 2014, 8:35pm
Post #1 of 69
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That Elven Glow
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I know the issue of Tauriel glowing has been discussed at length, but I thought I'd share this silly, little thing I realized recently:
I've seen a lot of people using the healing scene to equate Tauriel to Arwen. I think the main reason they're put together is the glow, so I've been going over both instances in my head and was thinking about differences and similarities when it occured to me: "glowy" Arwen is seen in a completely different dress (it's white and elegant vs the gray riding outfit we know she's wearing), while "glowy" Tauriel is still in the same green outfit.
 vs 
Was this just overlooked? Or do only high elves get special "glowy" outfits?  I may just go with that because I find it amusing 
Personally, I think it's unfortunate that the writers/PJ/whoever put in the similarities (short, dying male + glowy elf) to make you want to compare these two elves because they're quite different. It feels like I have one hand being in pulled in the direction of "hey, she's glowing! It's like Arwen!" while the other hand is being pulled towards "but this is so different" and I find it frustrating.
I've enjoyed most of the little nods they've included, but in this particular case, I wish they hadn't tried to hearken back...er, forward?...to LotR.
keep smiling 
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
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Jan 20 2014, 8:51pm
Post #2 of 69
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It's the 'similar but inconsistent' that makes Tauriel's glow feel like a mistake. (This is the only thing I dislike about Tauriel's presence in the film.)
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Rickster
Nargothrond
Jan 20 2014, 8:54pm
Post #3 of 69
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IT was ok. Otherwise it would have been too "ordinairy'. This worked fine and was a good idea
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Elarie
Hithlum
Jan 20 2014, 9:07pm
Post #4 of 69
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I'm not really sure exactly what the filmmakers intended with the elven glow in both movies, but I always connected it with the morgul wound affecting the perception of the wounded person. Perhaps that white glow is what the black riders see when they look at elves?
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Bombadil
Gondolin
Jan 20 2014, 9:31pm
Post #5 of 69
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In a way, you might think of it...
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As an "Immortality Glow"
A Backlit person with Forelight included
is sorta a Artistic convention.
Many Religious Paintings in the Medieval Ages
would paint someone Immortal, or Saintly
with this idea.
It also lends itself to a person's
Aura?
Something that Kili might be seeing
while still Delirious?..since it is a
Point-of-View shot from Kili...
It's what he sees.
Bomby
(This post was edited by Bombadil on Jan 20 2014, 9:34pm)
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dubulous
Nargothrond
Jan 20 2014, 9:35pm
Post #6 of 69
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It was cheesily done and there's just no reason why Tauriel, a silvan elf, should have been glowing at all.
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Rowan Greene
Menegroth
Jan 20 2014, 9:55pm
Post #8 of 69
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There's simply no comparison...
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...between Arwen and Tauriel or their "glowing" scenes. Arwen's was well done, understated, and befitting the (canon) character. Tauriel's healing scene was tacky and perhaps the creepiest Middle Earth scene ever filmed. I cringed while watching that scene--all three times I had to endure it. I'll be making use of the FF button when the DVD comes out. (In short, if it was in fact a 'nod' to Arwen's scene it was a cheap imitation.) 
Liv Tyler made a beautiful elf. The other one...not so much (IMO).
(This post was edited by Rowan Greene on Jan 20 2014, 10:01pm)
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wonderinglinguist
Menegroth
Jan 20 2014, 11:05pm
Post #9 of 69
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I don't necessarily mind that she glowed, it's just the way they did it is...frustrating?
I agree, though, the whole scene is quite cheesy --I can't watch it without laughing or feeling awkward
keep smiling
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
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Jan 20 2014, 11:10pm
Post #10 of 69
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if a big part of the problem is that Tauriel's glow was generated digitally while Arwen's was done using lights and feels more organic? Of course it's easier to create the glow with lights when you're working on a dark set as opposed to a lit indoor room.
Even if Tauriel had appeared to be dressed differently, to indicate we're seeing her as she is in the shadow world (as with Arwen), I'd feel happier about this scene because then it'd more consistent with what we saw in FOTR. But, ah well, it is what it is.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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wonderinglinguist
Menegroth
Jan 20 2014, 11:15pm
Post #11 of 69
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Arwen's scene even more because of it (and that's saying something because I always loved that part!). Like you said, it just seems to fit better....it's classier, imo. It makes the whole scene and who she is seem special --nothing cheesy or awkward.
keep smiling
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xxxyyy
Nargothrond
Jan 21 2014, 12:44am
Post #12 of 69
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That scene was poorly handled... I hope they reshoot it in pickups.
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Or maybe they have different takes, different angles, who knows...
Yeah, I know it's wichful thinking.
Anyway, not even the superb Shore's music behind it could save that scene... and that's even more sad.
A crappy music wouldn't have underlined so much that awkward (not cheese, for me at least... thank God) moment.
I hate that scene, with all my heart.
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arithmancer
Hithlum
Jan 21 2014, 1:12am
Post #14 of 69
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the reason for the difference could be that Frodo was seeing this amazing vision of an Elf for the first time, so maybe his imagination supplied a suitably ethereal and elegant robe. Whereas Kili was seeing the female Elf who had already saved his life twice, and with whom he had had the starlight conversation. If he were to then have a vision of her walking in the starlight while hallucinating and being healed by her, it is reasonable his mind would not change Tauriel's outfit from the one that is already familiar to him.
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
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Jan 21 2014, 1:26am
Post #16 of 69
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I interpreted Arwen's 'light' scene
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as Frodo - being part in the wraith world himself because of the wound - as seeing Arwen as she truly is in the shadow world, regardless of the clothes she wears in Middle-earth. Kili should be similarly affected by the morgul shaft and see Tauriel 'unvelied', as it were.
Although, hmmm ... we don't see the physical changes in Kili's face as we saw in Frodo's, and there is no similar high-pitched gasping for air that are reminiscient of the Nazguls' call, so maybe he isn't as affected by the arrow as Frodo was by the blade - Hobbits are tough, but maybe Dwarves are tougher? Or I could be overthinking this.
But why should a dying Dwarf or Hobbit who sees this light also see a difference in the Elf's clothing?
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Rowan Greene
Menegroth
Jan 21 2014, 1:31am
Post #17 of 69
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Someone explained in another thread...
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...that while Frodo is entering the shadow world (and becoming part wraith), Kili was merely poisoned. It has to do with his injury resulting from the morgul blade v. Kili's being the result of a poisoned arrow.
I wish I could remember which thread as it was a really good explanation of the morgul blade v. morgul poison issue. Anyone?
as Frodo - being part in the wraith world himself because of the wound - as seeing Arwen as she truly is in the shadow world, regardless of the clothes she wears in Middle-earth. Kili should be similarly affected by the morgul shaft and see Tauriel 'unvelied', as it were. Although, hmmm ... we don't see the physical changes in Kili's face as we saw in Frodo's, and there is no similar high-pitched gasping for air that are reminiscient of the Nazguls' call, so maybe he isn't as affected by the arrow as Frodo was by the blade - Hobbits are tough, but maybe Dwarves are tougher? Or I could be overthinking this. But why should a dying Dwarf or Hobbit who sees this light also see a difference in the Elf's clothing?
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Elizabeth
Gondolin
Jan 21 2014, 3:20am
Post #18 of 69
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...is what afflicted Faramir. He was healed by Aragorn, who substituted Kingship and Numenorian ancestry for the aura of the Eldar, but was equally effective. I think both he and Kili are not nearly as severely afflicted as Frodo.
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simplyaven
Hithlum
Jan 21 2014, 4:27am
Post #19 of 69
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Part of Frodo's wound was the fact that he was wounded by the Witch King, IMO. Even before being specifically "prepared" for the siege of Gondor, WiKi was still evil itself. His will and power was in his actions as well as Sauron's.
Middle earth recipes archive
I believe
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Meneldor
Doriath
Jan 21 2014, 5:19am
Post #20 of 69
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so I believe Kili was pretty severely afflicted at that time. It was probably a near-death experience, and he wanted to go into the light. 
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.
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Roheryn
Dor-Lomin
Jan 21 2014, 11:03am
Post #21 of 69
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that it's a matter of status. Tauriel is, in her words, "a lowly Silvan Elf"; Arwen is a...oh, good lord, my encyclopedia's gone to bed...is she a Calaquendi? A Noldor, right? Anyways, she's a Higher Elf than Tauriel. So, I figure in the shadow world, Arwen gets to wear special clothes. Tauriel's stuck with what she's already wearing.
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Elthir
Hithlum
Jan 21 2014, 1:44pm
Post #22 of 69
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Arwen has notable blood lineage but technically she is not an Elf. She lives with the life of the Eldar, yes, and apparently is considered Eldarin enough when it comes to the Three Unions for instance...
... but even Tolkien will flatly state that Arwen was not an Elf [in a letter].
Although I realize your point is really about status in any case, and obviously Arwen's grandmother was Galadriel herself, for instance, with Celebrian being her mother.
While Tauriel 'Daughter of the Wood' apparently has Entish blood
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simplyaven
Hithlum
Jan 21 2014, 3:06pm
Post #23 of 69
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I wouldn't say Arwen is no Elf. She, as all Elrond children, is given the choice to be mortal or immortal but to say she is no Elf... is like saying Elrond is no Elf. If we venture to calculate the percentage of Arwen's Elven blood things may look different. In fact, we may see her choice as a gift. As I see it. The term "Half-Elven" at this point of the Tolkien's legendarium is not precise. It's just a nickname.
Middle earth recipes archive
I believe
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Avandel
Gondolin
Jan 21 2014, 4:10pm
Post #24 of 69
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you have nothing to complain aboout
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I've sat through it over 10 times, LOL. Including the terrible camera angle (i know, Kili is laying down and all, but not only is the glow fake looking and NOT effective the way it was with Arwen, it is unflattering to EL to have a camera looking up her nose and THEN the way she looks reminds me of someone about to sprout fangs and bury them in poor Kili's neck, which may explain why Kili looks so shocked. Not to mention the rocking and chanting that goes on and on.)
Well, since I was unhappy with the scene, what would I have done differently? Shorten it up - reduce the light effect, have Tauriel cut his leg a bit to drain it (e.g., give her something else to do), shorten up the chanting, have her put her hand on Kili's chest and do some elvish. Behave more like someone who is doing some fast healing the way a being who spends a lot of time in the woods would have to, and less like the ethereal Arwen.
*Snark* But for me the scene is saved by having the camera cut back and forth to Kili, who plays sick really well and is easy on the eyes too. The only scene I actually cringe into my seat at is the "love" scene, which I get through by thinking "if I just sit through this, one of my favorite scenes is right after" e.g. the "end in fire" scene.
But even "love" scene would have been saved if the script hadn't laid it on so thick and done some editing.
That could have been quite moving.
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