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spartacus
Registered User
Jan 17 2008, 9:16pm
Post #1 of 25
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More casting speculation...
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I agree with Johnny Depp (or maybe Val Kilmer) as Thranduil for the reasons stated in past posts, but for Thorin- I suggest giving the role to a proven dwarf actor, John Rhys-Davies.
Clancy Brown is the only real choice for Beorn- all I gotta say in support of that is Pathfinder. Also he'd be ideal for the voice of Smaug.
You already have perfect actors for Gandalf, Bilbo, and Elrond.
I also agree Gerard Butler would be a great Bard (re: Leonidas/300), but maybe some thought should be given to Eric Bana for the role, as he did a great job in Troy and I'm pretty sure he'd take it since his career hasn't really fully recovered from his involvement in that awful Hulk movie; or if you want tried and true doom-and-gloom, bring back Karl Urban.
Dain Ironfoot would be well-portrayed by either P.J. himself or maybe Phil Fondacaro (Willow, Bordello of Blood).
And purely for entertainment's sake, I say Sid Haig as the Great Goblin.
All trolls, lesser goblins, and all weapons have already been shown to be phenomenally portrayed by Weta.
I wish my lawn was emo so the grass would cut itself...
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Arwen's daughter
Gondolin
Jan 17 2008, 9:33pm
Post #2 of 25
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The world must be running short of actors
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...if PJ et al. have to recast people from LOTR. Using John Rhys-Davies or Karl Urban in new roles would be a serious mistake, no matter how much different the make-up is (just my opinion, of course).
I have to say that I like Gerard Butler immensly as an actor because he is the kind of man who blends into his role. He's never Gerard Butler pretending to be such-and-such character, like some other actors *cough*Tom Cruise*cough* I'm often amazed to spot him in his older movies because I just don't recognize him (though perhaps that has more to do with his make-up in more recent roles).
Oh and Mae Govannen spartacus. Welcome and well met. It's always nice to see new names on the boards. I hope you'll stick around. 
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Jan 18 2008, 3:16am
Post #3 of 25
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I know Altaria is going to say I am being adamant and implacable
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And I will just plead guilty as charged and have done with it. lol. I stil stand by David Bowie as Thranduil ( more than Johnny Depp, whom I love, and he certainly seems more natural to the part than Val Kilmer).
For Beorn, still going with Lawrence Fishburne, especially after re-reading about Beorn's "deep, rumbling voice." and for all the other reasons I have mentioned elsewhere on the message board, all of which, I believe, remain as pertinent and valid as they were when first posted.
Still pushing Jude Law for Glorfindel. He really would fit it perfectly. And Glorfindel NEEDS to be in the Bridge film, at least at the council.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
(This post was edited by Altaira on May 25 2008, 2:28am)
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
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Jan 18 2008, 7:01am
Post #5 of 25
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that John Rhys Davies had a severe allergic reaction to the dwarf makeup and was in misery the whole time? Though he was one of the biggest boosters of the movies, I think his reaction to the idea of playing a dwarf could be summed up as "Never again!". I'm quite sure he would not consider playing the role of Thorin, even if PJ offered it to him.
And frankly, I expect that PJ has more sense and a much better grasp of casting than to bring back his previous stars to second roles in The Hobbit. He'll have certain actors come back in the same roles as needed, of course. But there's no need to recycle.
As for the rest of the popular suggestions (both in news items and here on the boards), I'm a bit surprised that we're seeing the same names come up over and over, and that so many of them are people who happen to be popular just now. IMO, one of the reasons the first films worked so well is that the cast were either "chameleons" or relative unknowns. That gave the world a sense of reality, since it wasn't resonating with overly familiar faces - the actors were able to be the character they played and no one else.
Why is it that we are now hearing so many famous names put forward? Is it because we're somehow afraid the same lightning won't strike twice, and we're looking for security in the "tried-and-true"? Or is it just that we don't know or remember enough non-starring or character actors to suggest and we're falling back on the familiar? I'm finding this quite puzzling, especially since in the original LOTR casting phase when there was no assurance about the success of the movies at all, the vast majority of people were very much in favor of lesser-knowns in the cast. What I'm seeing this time around is quite the opposite, and I'm quite curious as to why.
Opinions, anyone?
Silverlode
"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you." -On Fairy Stories
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Lunamoth
Nargothrond
Jan 18 2008, 2:12pm
Post #6 of 25
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I think mainly because the lesser knowns and unknowns are, well, lesser- or un-known. ;) What I mean is, one can't speculate about a person one doesn't know of. I never would have speculated that maybe Orlando Bloom will play Legolas because I'd never heard of him to ever make that recommendation. We're grabbing at low-hanging fruit, as it were.
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Jan 18 2008, 3:45pm
Post #7 of 25
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How about Oliver Platt for Balin?
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He's got the height and stature, but is a little more of a softer voice as I've always pictures Balin to have.
Here's a list so far of actors over 6' to play the Dwarves that would take care of scale problems with the Hobbit (but not Gandalf ;)
Ron Perlman 6'2"
Brendan Gleeson 6'2"
Robbie Coltane 6'1"
Stephen Fry 6'4.5"
Lawrence Fishburne 6' 1/2" (or Beorn ?)
Oliver Platt 6' 3½"
 
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
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Elberbeth
Dor-Lomin
Jan 18 2008, 3:51pm
Post #8 of 25
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Jonathan Pryce? He's 6'2", or so IMDB says, and I think he's got the right sort of face.
"There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark."
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Jan 18 2008, 3:52pm
Post #9 of 25
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As for the rest of the popular suggestions (both in news items and here on the boards), I'm a bit surprised that we're seeing the same names come up over and over, and that so many of them are people who happen to be popular just now.
It's like Hollywood mgouls. They see someone in a certain role and that's the only type of role they can see them in. Many actors, such as the late and great Paul Lynde, get self-destructive and even suicidal over being typecast.
IMO, one of the reasons the first films worked so well is that the cast were either "chameleons" or relative unknowns.
And some fresh out of actor school. And it showed.
BTW, there's an old Hollywood joke about the career cycle of an actor:
1: Who's Orlando Bloom?
2. Get me Orlando Bloom!
3. Get me an Orlando Bloom type!
4. Get me a young Orlando Bloom!
5. Who's Orlando Bloom?
IMO, one of the reasons the first films worked so well is that the cast were either "chameleons" or relative unknowns.
Wasn't a large part of the cast well known to New Zealand television viewers via soap operas, commercials, etc.?
That gave the world a sense of reality, since it wasn't resonating with overly familiar faces - the actors were able to be the character they played and no one else.
Well, there are Great Actors like Ian McKellen who can and do become the role. The Grey and The White seemed like they were played by two different actors. But yeah, most of the people suggested are not Great Actors. And it's highly improbable any unknown is going to be a Great Actor.
Why is it that we are now hearing so many famous names put forward? Is it because we're somehow afraid the same lightning won't strike twice, and we're looking for security in the "tried-and-true"?
Yes, exactly like the typical Hollywood mogul would feel. "We need Names to make sure the film succeeds!" Of course, that's why we got Alec Guiness in Star Wars, and that turned out to be a Good Thing.
Or is it just that we don't know or remember enough non-starring or character actors to suggest and we're falling back on the familiar?
Unfortunately character actors seem to be a part of Hollywood's past. The minute an actor gets any sort of visibility they get put in a very bad film and there goes their career. For example, break out actors from Saturday Night Live or Friends.
I'm finding this quite puzzling, especially since in the original LOTR casting phase when there was no assurance about the success of the movies at all, the vast majority of people were very much in favor of lesser-knowns in the cast.
IIRC, back then it seemed pretty much agreed by all that Sean Connery absolutely *had* to play Gandalf.
Ironically, I also remember a large degree of anxiety over the casting of Ian McKellen. People were concerned about his strong identification with Magneto in X-Men. (Not to mention Sir Ian's sexual orientation. And his very vocal advocacy of it.) And when the third FOTR trailer came out his reading of the line "They are coming" was cited by many as proof that he was a Bad Actor and Gandalf would be a disaster.
What I'm seeing this time around is quite the opposite, and I'm quite curious as to why.
Well, perhaps the answer is back in the First Age the board was made up mainly of book fans who were (to some degree or another) uncomfortable with the idea of a movie. So they were a bit cautious about using Hollywood stars. Today book fans see that Jackson succeeded (to some degree or another) in making a faithful (to some degree or another) movie so they're not quite so cautious about using big name movie stars.
Opinions, anyone?
Well, one can look at it as the fanbase becoming more Hollywood savvy, so the idea of name actors don't put them off as much this time.
Anyway, that may be a good thing since as a New Line-MGM-United Artists production this is going to have at least twice as many suits offering suggestions for "improvements. So I imagine The Hobbit is going to be a bit more Hollywood than the trilogy.
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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squire
Gondolin
Jan 18 2008, 4:10pm
Post #10 of 25
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A lot of people see the entire Hobbit project as a chance to re-experience the emotions they felt on viewing the LotR trilogy, in true "sequel" fashion. They don't want a new movie, based on a new book; they want the same movie a second time.
These casting exercises are a way to start engaging in that nostalgia even before the thing starts up. Most of us have no knowledge of the vast professional acting base that casting directors have. The most reassuring and "comforting" way for a fan to fantasize up front about The Lord of the Rings Strikes Back, I mean The Hobbit, is to populate it with LotR's actors, or else with well-known faces from other currently popular movies, no matter how inappropriate or impractical that might be.
My impression is that all these recycled names from the front pages of EW are fan suggestions. If the Hollywood execs overseeing the project are also indulging in this type of thinking, it's because they also see this as merely a cheap and easy sequel to a proven money-maker, and feel they daren't risk a potentially huge pot of money on "unknown" actors.
I'm willing to guess that Jackson, to the degree that he's involved in this project at all, would gladly start over with unknowns for the very good reasons outlined above: it's the best way to create new and original film characters, and the fans will certainly learn to love them after the fact. It also strikes me as his "style" in any case. But for this project he may have less influence over such things than he did with his magnum opus.
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Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
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Jan 18 2008, 4:29pm
Post #11 of 25
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First, I think much of the speculation is happening because there's no news. So many people are filling their time with speculation about the cast and the script.
Second, I think it's as you say. People choose names they know, so if they're not aware of lesser-known actors it's not possible to imagine them as a character.
Third, I think a lot of people just want LOTR to happen again. They're trying to replicate all the great things that happened during the filming and after the movies were released. The casting proposals attempt to put the same actors in different roles so that the whole group can work together. I think that's a mistake. The synergy between cast, crew and fans for LOTR was not planned or managed, and trying to do that will result in disappointment.
I want the best movie(s) possible, and if that means a whole new cast, I'm fine with that. I have no "must-haves", up to and including Sir Ian McKellen as Gandalf. None of the LOTR actors have replaced my vision of the characters, so I don't need a particular actor to be happy with a Tolkien movie.
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
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Zmulady
Nargothrond
Jan 18 2008, 7:21pm
Post #12 of 25
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All I really have to say about it is, I hope Tom Cruise is NOT in Hobbit. I would be afraid that his name would be all over it. We would be hearing more about him and Katie and Suri then the movies coming out. He just doesn't give me a Middle Earth vibe either.
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Loresilme
Doriath
Jan 18 2008, 9:48pm
Post #14 of 25
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I would like the casting team to scour the theatre stages, local and not-so-local, and find some hidden, little known gem of a stage actor who has a voice with resonance and power and fluidity, and diction to just die for. That's how I imagine the voice of Smaug. That's my wish list.....
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Jan 19 2008, 5:09am
Post #15 of 25
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"And some fresh out of actor school. And it showed."
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Is that a good thing, or a bad thing: actors who seemed inexperienced, or actors who hadn't yet forgotten (the better aspects of) their training?
Excellent comments, Darkstone.
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Join us Jan. 14-20 for "A Knife in the Dark".
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Jan 19 2008, 8:27am
Post #16 of 25
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For my part I agree with Lunamoth, and with most of Entmaiden's commetary
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And, for my part, the actors I choose had less to do with current popularity (Neither Jude Law, Nor Avery Brooks, nor David Bowie nor Lawrence Fishburne have done anything SUPER huge in the last several years, to my knowledge) than it did with my sense of them being extremely well suited to the roles.
I think Jude Law, more than any other actor that immediately comes to mind (unknowns being, as Lunamoth said, unknown) who has both the presence and the elfin beauty that personifies Glorfindel. The Elf-Lord strikes me as something of a smaller scaled Apollo, and Jude law fits that better than most. Much more so, in my mind, than Craig Parker did, even though I liked his Haldir. I thought the portrayer of Gil-Galid didn't look quite right, though his costuming was flawless. Jude is model for the role, to my mind.
As to David Bowie, I would have said it if he had never been mentioned by MTV. I remember hearing he had wanted to play Elrond, and I have heard from more than a few that there are places where Weaving's Elrond reminds them a little of aspects of Bowie. I simply think few people I know of are more apt to a role like Thranduil than he is. It isn't because I like him as a performer. I love Tina Turner, but I would never suggest that she play Arwen. lol I just believe he fits the role with near perfection, and I know he would want to do it.
As to Lawrence Fishburne, again, his voice and build are perfect for Beorn, as is his demeanor. He would Be GREAT. I can think of few others who would be as proper in the role, and Russel Crowe is not one of them. Also, as I said, Fishburne kills two birds with one stone. He is, first and foremost, a great actor for a role like Beorn, and that is most important. But also, as I have said, it would release the work from one of its few persistant stigmas. It did not go unnoticed that, in a film with global appeal and fans of every age, ethnicity and gender, the only persons of colour involved were made up in hideous monster make up, and then hacked to component parts. Beorn is a character described as dark and hirsuite, rather than pale as a December moon which leaves leeway in casting, and with some wild mountain-man hair and a great black beard (and a little CGI to make him about three feet taller) Fishburne would be excellent in that role, silmultaneously nullifying one of the few complaints outside observers leveled.
I choose those people because I thought they were great choices. I think some they have popped up in other peoples minds because other people can also see their potential in these roles.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Sunflower
Doriath
Jan 19 2008, 10:07am
Post #17 of 25
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These films will NOT be Hollywoodized....
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For only one reason: this time around, New Line has even LESS money to pay an A-list actor his 5, 10 or $20 million salary. They will want to economize as much as possible.
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Peredhil lover
Doriath
Jan 19 2008, 10:35am
Post #18 of 25
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In fact, I hope very much so! Hadn't seen it this way before, but it's certainly an argument.
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
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spartacus
Registered User
Jan 19 2008, 7:10pm
Post #19 of 25
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Ok, I have to admit I never even thought about Bowie as Thranduil, and this after having to replace my copy of Labyrinth at least 3 times now... but I heartily agree with that call. It's perfect.
I'm surprised no one's said anything either for or against Clancy Brown for Beorn. He's respectably known, but not a superstar; his supporting character work over the years more than qualifies him, and he's also and inch and a half taller than Perlman.
I think Fishburne would actually make a better Bard, because he's supposed to be a more mature, been there-done that person, serious and capable.
Platt might actually do well as Thorin. He can do more with his voice when he wants to in the different films I've seen him in, and he just naturally looks like a dwarf without any make-up, possibly due to his 'remote Dutch ancestry.'
I wish my lawn was emo so the grass would cut itself...
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Peredhil lover
Doriath
Jan 19 2008, 9:33pm
Post #20 of 25
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As I don't watch many movies, I know only two of them at least by name and have no intention of arguing for or against any of them ;-)
What I was agreeing to was the hope the Hollywood influence would be minimized. In my opinion, the trilogy was a success just because PJ had not to make the movies in a way the Hollywood studios thought of being 'right', and I suppose the no-names would work better for him for the same reason that they are not so influenced by the 'Hollywood way of things', so to speak. And I think that's what Sunflower meant.
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
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Loresilme
Doriath
Jan 20 2008, 2:45am
Post #21 of 25
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Val Kilmer. IMO he is one of those people who was underrated because of his looks and because he developed a reputation for being difficult to work with. I think he's at his best when he gets a character he can create a distinctive voice for, which I think he could do with one or more of the roles in either The Hobbit or the second film yet to be named.
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Jan 20 2008, 9:35am
Post #22 of 25
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I just can't see Val as Thranduil. . .
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Which is what someone mentioned. Bard maybe. . .
But I am sticking hard with Bowie, Fishburne and Jude Law for Thranduil, Beorn and Glorfindel.
As far as Fishburne for Bard. . . while I think it would be a VERY good thing for the films to have at least one person of colour in a named role, and not as a hideous monster, I see Bard as being too much, of a people, to have any such distinguishing characteristics as to differ in tone. Beorn is such an oddity, living in the wild amongst his own tribes, that it could be more easily pulled off. Also. . . I just think Lawrence is really great for the role. He has a perfect voice, and he can give a look so stern and fierce that it really does seem like he is contemplating eating whomever he is staring at. And it doesn't require any overacting on his part, he just has the proper presence.
I don't want to see them make it Hollywood by any means, but I would hate to see actors who are all but custom made for certain parts in the films to be excluded solely on the basis that they are already celebraties. I gave a fair deal of thoght, and visualizing to this before making these suggestions. . . and the visions were astounding. If only I could peddle tickets to the inside of my brain. lol
As to the pay, Its THE HOBBIT, I am sure most actors would be willing to make arrangements. Bowie is a billionaire, he would probably do it just for the sake of involvement.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Orchunter
Registered User
Jan 30 2008, 11:38pm
Post #23 of 25
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Nice picks! Thought that Jason Stratham would play the role of Bard quite well. He has that gritty type of persona.
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RangerGirl
Registered User
Feb 10 2008, 11:48pm
Post #24 of 25
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Actually when I read The Hobbit recently the first actor who came to mind for Bard was James McAvoy. Grow his hair, give him some stubble and BAM there ya go. But keep the Scottish accent, it could work for him.
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Altaira
Superuser
May 25 2008, 2:32am
Post #25 of 25
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Who? You? Adamant and implacable?
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No more adamant and implacable than just about everyone else on the boards, AO. (I corrected you subject line, btw..."adamang" to "adamant, which I assume is what you meant to type ).
I think being passionate about LOTR, The Hobbit and the films just goes with the territory.
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"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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