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ange1e4e5
Mithlond
Jun 3 2016, 6:13pm
Post #101 of 117
(1077 views)
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And not all of them are beardless.
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I always follow my job through.
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wizzardly
Nargothrond
Jun 3 2016, 6:23pm
Post #102 of 117
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no but at least half of them are folically challenged
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Smaug the iron
Mithlond
Jun 3 2016, 6:42pm
Post #103 of 117
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What important elements of the book do you feel the Rankin/Bass adaptation failed to capture, and that PJ's did? Beorn, the arkenstone subplot, the auction at Bag End, the good morning scene, the dwarves arrives at Bag End, Bombur falling in the river in Mirkwood and that more dwarves then Thorin, Fili and Kili are dead.
All of this scenes I mentioned above are in PJ version and all of them are close to the book.
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wizzardly
Nargothrond
Jun 3 2016, 6:49pm
Post #104 of 117
(1058 views)
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You think PJ's Kili and Fili death scenes were close to the book?
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ange1e4e5
Mithlond
Jun 3 2016, 6:55pm
Post #105 of 117
(1051 views)
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It's better than what's shown in the book, especially Fili's, just a cold execution.
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"This one dies first."
"Then the brother."
"Then you, Oakenshield."
"You will die last."
I always follow my job through.
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Smaug the iron
Mithlond
Jun 3 2016, 6:59pm
Post #106 of 117
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no not really. But what I meant by close to the book is that PJ did not kill more dwarves then just Thorin, Fili and Kili.
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dormouse
Gondolin
Jun 3 2016, 7:25pm
Post #108 of 117
(1037 views)
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My respect and affection for Tolkien's works
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..also extends to Christopher Tolkien. All those of us who love the books are in his debt - I can still feel the excitement I felt on learning that he was working on the Silmarillion - something I thought would be lost to us forever when his father died. I respect the fact that he doesn't like what he's seen of the films and have never criticised him for that - at the same time I don't see any reason why any of us should follow him in it and I don't suppose he expects it.
As for the Rankin Bass film, it seems to me that they followed the letter of the written story about as closely as anyone could with so short a running time but totally missed the spirit of it. Even reading the book as a child there was a sense for me that events of the story rested on a long and mysterious history; all that was gone. There was no magic at all; the sense in the book of the vast and untamed 'Wild', which is neither your friend not your enemy, was gone. I'm no expert on the detail of the film as one viewing was enough to tell me it wasn't for me but I do remember that they had robbed Bilbo of his most heroic and most morally ambiguous action in dropping the Arkenstone - which seems to me now to be a far more unfortunate 'sidelining' of Bilbo than anything in Peter Jackson's adaptation.
And I'm sorry, but yes, I am talking partly also how things "look" and I don't see any comparison at all between the short beards of PJ's Hobbit and the cartoon elves. I think that if the artists who drew the RB film had had a fraction of the sensitivity to Tolkien's text that the Weta artists have always shown they would never have depicted them like that. Beauty is essential to the very nature of Tolkien's elves.
I could go on, but that's the crux of it. For me the RB film fails to capture the depth, the magic and the sense of wonder I've always found in the book - also its moral complexity. It's a kids' cartoon - which is fine, that's what it's meant to me. But for me it comes across as an empty summary of the plot, with no real understanding of what makes the original special.
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Jun 3 2016, 7:53pm
Post #109 of 117
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And we're talking about a species change here with the Wood-Elves..
You mean that the Wood-elves are a different species from the Eldar? The Wood-elves of Mirkwood are at least partially made up of Teleri (including both Sindar and Nandor Elves) who are considered Eldar (High Elves). That would certainly include the Elvenking, so that does not explain his odd appearance in the Rankin/Bass adaptation. It seems more likely that the director just wanted to make them visually dissimilar to Elrond's folk to emphasis their relative wildness.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"
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ange1e4e5
Mithlond
Jun 3 2016, 8:19pm
Post #110 of 117
(1008 views)
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Well they looked like they were a different species. I thought High Elves and Wood Elves were physically similar, you know?
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I always follow my job through.
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Jun 3 2016, 8:46pm
Post #111 of 117
(998 views)
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High Elves and Wood-elves should not look so different, aside from cultural differences in clothing, language and lifestyle. Tolkien did write that the Nandor were culturally more similar to their Avari (East-elves) kin.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"
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Lindele
Mithlond
Jun 3 2016, 9:11pm
Post #112 of 117
(992 views)
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maybe we should all agree that for some of us the Rankin/Bass version is a better representation of Tolkien's work but for many of us PJ's adaptation is a far better representation...instead of insinuating that anyone who likes PJ's adaptation, or thinks that the beards in the films are fine, is not a true Tolkien fan.
though it may be a non issue to most people here, to fans of Tolkien like myself, I see it as a sort of statement of defiance on the part of the filmmakers
There are some, like myself, who consider themselves huge fans of Tolkien who find the Rankin/Bass version extremely defiant and offensive to Tolkien's book. So maybe we are all entitled to our own opinions? Without being treated with disrespect or labeled as non fans of Tolkien? Maybe?
On the topic of beards and disrespect for the source material in the films... If one (not naming any names) were to pay a slight amount more of attention they might realize the immense depth of respect that was paid to the original work by Weta and the filmmakers, not to mention the suggestion of why in some cases beards are missing (which also references Tolkien's own words).
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jun 3 2016, 9:29pm
Post #113 of 117
(988 views)
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that is, if their follicles were actually not producing hair, even stubble would not be possible. All of them appear capable of growing full beards, but some of them are cut, some are trimmed, and some are not. None of them are cleanshaven, and none of them are naturally beardless (as the Elves usually are, with the curious exception of Cirdan. Tolkien has his share of inconsistencies....).
Silverlode
Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
Eyes that fire and sword have seen
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green
And trees and hills they long have known.
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ange1e4e5
Mithlond
Jun 3 2016, 9:32pm
Post #114 of 117
(981 views)
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"Here ends your filthy bloodline!"
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I always follow my job through.
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ange1e4e5
Mithlond
Jun 3 2016, 9:34pm
Post #115 of 117
(980 views)
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Is it possible to like both Tolkien's original work and Peter Jackson's films?
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I always follow my job through.
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dormouse
Gondolin
Jun 3 2016, 9:43pm
Post #116 of 117
(976 views)
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Yes, 'course it is, and lots of us do //
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For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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LittleHobbit
Menegroth
Jun 4 2016, 4:00am
Post #117 of 117
(959 views)
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Thanks for answering. Perhaps now I will have a more accurate picture of the person behind your posts. 
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