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Erethen
Lindon
May 27 2016, 6:41pm
Post #1 of 117
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Currently spreading out the Extended Editions of all six Middle-Earth movies in a watch through with my girlfriend. We just finished BOTFA today, and I have a question; when you reach the end of this trilogy as Billy Boyd's fantastic song closes out, how do you feel? Do you feel fulfilled by this trilogy? Emotional? Angry? How do you feel as compared to the conclusion of the LOTR trilogy?
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
May 27 2016, 6:52pm
Post #2 of 117
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Besides the things that I wish that Peter Jackson had done better (or at least differently) in the rest of the movie(s), I miss the epilogue from the book where we read about some of the events that took place in the years immediately following the Battle of Five Armies. It's great seeing old Bilbo again on the occasion of his eleventy-first birthday, but I would have preferred the earlier visit from Balin and Gandalf.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes, the "Gossiper of the Gods"
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 27 2016, 6:53pm)
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wizzardly
Nargothrond
May 27 2016, 8:59pm
Post #3 of 117
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Sadness that this moist piece of hollywood doodie is what people will now think of when they hear the title The Hobbit.
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HOBBITFAN13
Menegroth
May 27 2016, 9:15pm
Post #4 of 117
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I was emotional at first at the end of BOFA because it was the last Middle-Earth film that I would see in theaters. But after watching a six film marathon after the release of the EE, I usually walk out of the room here and there during the Hobbit trilogy. I only watch the parts in the trilogy that I think are good. I do love Billy Boyd's song though. In my opinion, the conclusion of the Hobbit trilogy is not even close to the conclusion of LOTR. You don't connect with the characters in the Hobbit trilogy as much as LOTR because too much is going on. The end of ROTK was epic and shows you why those movies are considered one of the greatest of all time.
(This post was edited by HOBBITFAN13 on May 27 2016, 9:16pm)
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Avandel
Gondolin
May 27 2016, 10:50pm
Post #5 of 117
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Well, since everyone has a DIFFERENT opinion...
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1) I can't stand that song and practically charge from the theater to avoid hearing it - I could spew quite a lot about it, but for myself anything that kind of reminds me of some old Air Supply stuff being sold on late night TV is not a good thing.
I understand a number of folks feel differently.
2) While there are a number of magnificent things IMO about LOTR, I'd rather watch the Hobbit films. Did the Hobbit films do Middle Earth justice? - which is how I think of it, as with LOTR there were deviations from the original material...
Absolutely , thanks in no small part to a stellar cast and PJ's vision. Or, to put it another way, I often either won't even watch ROTK or watch half of it. I get distracted watching LOTR, depending. As time has gone on, some things about LOTR bother me more than when the films were released - tho some things I appreciate more, like Gollum.
As opposed to the Hobbit films, which as time goes on, overall I tend to appreciate more. Lately, ironically, triggered as a result of some rather good fan-fic, I started thinking about the inherent difficulties that PJ & co. faced, filling in some rather sparse characterizations and visualizing characters rich enough for an audience to identify with, and take to, immediately. Such as Dain, for instance. Or like Radagast or not, he wasn't "cookie cutter wizard" when we already had two *noble Istari* set in our minds.
3) Do I feel fulfilled re the Hobbit films? Yes, in many ways, and no, regarding BOFA, in that regrettably (I imagine) in an effort to not imitate LOTR, perhaps, or mindful of the complaints re ROTK - well, I don't know, but re BOFA and somewhat with DOS, the overly tight editing of material that absolutely demanded IMO an "epic fantasy" treatment. The BOFA EE helped, of course. But I really want a re-edit, and some things included like the unfinished DOS footage.
4) Do I feel fulfilled by LOTR? Yes, in many ways, but there are things I would have done differently as well. Well, a lot of things, when I start making a list.
Overall, for me, Peter Jackson did the same kinds of things in LOTR as he did with the Hobbit films, re character weights, story alterations, and so on. When I think about it. Both have scenes I would never, ever want to have not seen, and get replays.
It's just which films do I make an evening out of?, at this point. Which for me is the Hobbit films, usually. Although I am not sure that's fair, in that LOTR has been around a good while, so by default I've seen it a lot more . Perhaps more significant is that watching LOTR I can find myself getting restless, missing the Hobbit cast and performances.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Doriath
May 28 2016, 1:10am
Post #6 of 117
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I really love the Hobbit trilogy, but your questions are difficult. I suppose it's almost impossible to not compare the Hobbit with the LoTR trilogy, but I do try not to do that. I feel "fulfilled" in the sense that, if nothing else these movies were a chance to re-visit Middle-earth, or at least Peter Jackson's vision of Middle-earth. And don't get me started on New Zealand, and how beautiful that country must be! I do feel emotional as well - you might laugh, but alot of times I stop watching BOT5A after the Durins get to Ravenhill, but every now and then I torture myself by watching Thorin's death scene and the funeral scene. Yes, I still get teary-eyed; not unlike how I feel at the end of RoTK when the ship is sailing away. And both of them end with those beautiful hand-drawn sketches of the characters. Again, I don't like comparing the two, because to me that's like comparing my left sock to my right sock. They both cover the same world of Middle-earth; they draw on each other. As I said, unlike most of your responses I don't hate this trilogy, so the emotions I feel are some sadness that the journey is over; but it's combined with the joy of getting to see this amazing world, again and again and again! (To be honest, I'll bet members of my family hate these movies worse than your other responders!)
So, I have a question: How do YOU feel about the Hobbit trilogy? And how's that marathon watch working out for you? Are you watching one per night? Last weekend I watched a mini-marathon of DOS, BOT5A and FoTR. Gotta admit that was exhausting! But going from the DOS cliffhanger straight into Smaug's attack is really exciting, and then hearing Gandalf tell Frodo about Thorin giving Bilbo the Mithreal shirt, well, that's just the best! Over my Christmas break I did manage to watch all 6 movies, but it took about 3 days total to be honest.
Proud member of the BOFA Denial Association
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LittleHobbit
Menegroth
May 28 2016, 1:10am
Post #7 of 117
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Sadness that this moist piece of hollywood doodie is what people will now think of when they hear the title The Hobbit.
Man, this post is just intolerable. I can't believe how disrespectful you are. If you don't like something, explain the reason logically and rationally or just state your feeling without throwing dirt at it.
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Omnigeek
Menegroth
May 28 2016, 5:25am
Post #8 of 117
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I thought Billy Boyd's song was superb and the pencil drawings were a great way to close out not only the film and trilogy but really PJ's Middle-earth adventure in general. In, fact, it was one of the few things I liked about BOFA. Overall, I absolutely do NOT feel fulfilled by this trilogy. If anything, this trilogy left me feeling besmirched, tarnished, even a little violated by all the unnecessary changes to the story and horrible costuming decisions -- a dramatic difference from the LOTR trilogy where I felt satisfied and exuberant at the end.
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LittleHobbit
Menegroth
May 28 2016, 7:11am
Post #9 of 117
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And now, to answer the thread...
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I felt it was a satisfactory conclusion to the trilogy. MAYBE not as good as the LOTR ending or that other trilogy in general, but certainly satisfactory on it's own terms. I don't know if I will ever change my opinion, but currently I feel these movies are severely underrated. I also vehemently disagree that the LOTR trilogy didn't suffer from a large part, or even from most of the ''problems'' that this trilogy SUPPOSEDLY has. I feel that, with time, people forgot the flaws in LOTR. Maybe with time they will view the Hobbit trilogy differently as well. 
So, in conclusion -- is the ending perfect? No. Maybe the book ending would have been better. But I think the ending that we actually got works for this movie. And, remember, the movie has to work/stand on its own. Almost no adaptation that I've ever seen is true to every aspect of the original work. Thus, I think a far greater problem with the ending is the 'loose ends' one -- but then, LOTR did have some of that problem as well. Maybe there is no practical way for the movie to resolve EVERY sinlge plot strand, so it's unreasonable to demand this from the filmmakers.
In that aspect, the extended edition might improve the movie for me, but I couldn't say that right now. I still haven't seen it, although I plan to do that soon. 
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dormouse
Gondolin
May 28 2016, 9:07am
Post #10 of 117
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As with any special experience.....
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Both sad that it's over and glad that it happened. In the closing credits of both trilogies I find I'm revisiting momentarily the scenes and emotions of all three films - summing them up, once again saying goodbye before returning to the everyday world. Like closing a book that has taken over your imagination so completely that you don't want it to end, and it leaves a taste of itself in your mind afterwards. Of course, the joy with films and books as opposed to actual experiences you can go straight back to the beginning if you want to (and often I do). You can also revisit any time you want to - I do that too.
I've loved the books for most of my life; now I love the films as well. [This is where we're supposed to insert the compulsary "I know they're not perfect, but...." only this time I'm not going to bother. What matters for me is that when I'm watching the things I would have done differently, the minor gripes (in both trilogies) don't count a bit. They can't touch the pleasure I get from watching. when I'm watching I'm in Middle-earth.
How do I feel at the conclusion of either trilogy? Like Sam. He drew a deep breath. "Well, I'm back", he said.
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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HOBBITFAN13
Menegroth
May 28 2016, 12:37pm
Post #11 of 117
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I thought Billy Boyd's song was superb and the pencil drawings were a great way to close out not only the film and trilogy but really PJ's Middle-earth adventure in general. In, fact, it was one of the few things I liked about BOFA. Overall, I absolutely do NOT feel fulfilled by this trilogy. If anything, this trilogy left me feeling besmirched, tarnished, even a little violated by all the unnecessary changes to the story and horrible costuming decisions -- a dramatic difference from the LOTR trilogy where I felt satisfied and exuberant at the end.
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Noria
Hithlum
May 28 2016, 12:42pm
Post #12 of 117
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Beautifully said, dormouse, and I feel exactly the same.
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I will say that I don't think that any of the six movies are perfect but I don't think the books are perfect either. That doesn't matter; I love them all anyway, the books for getting on for fifty years and the movies from fifteen years ago onward.
Billy Boyd's song brings out a host of happy nostalgic feelings in me about both TH and LotR, as it is meant to. It's my favourite after Into the West.
I'm also fond of Neil Finn's Song of the Lonely Mountain, purely because of the happy feelings it evoked when I first heard it (on line) during the Wellington premiere of AUJ.
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wizzardly
Nargothrond
May 28 2016, 2:23pm
Post #13 of 117
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"Disrespectful" is exactly the word I would use to describe the manner in which PJ adapted Tolkien's book. I'm sure he knew that Christopher Tolkien wasn't pleased with his adaptation of LotR and his reasons why, but instead of trying to make things right with the Hobbit, decides to almost completely re-write it with even more of the same types of things that Christopher found to be unfitting of his father's work. That's disrespectful in my book.
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Ettelewen
Nargothrond
May 28 2016, 3:28pm
Post #14 of 117
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for me. I love both the books and the films, and I'm very happy to have the stories in both mediums (media?).
Thanks dormouse.
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TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Nargothrond
May 28 2016, 7:57pm
Post #15 of 117
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Pesky thing about artists, eh?
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If they're worth their salt, they'll stick to their own vision, their own sensibilities and style, honing their personal craft with each new work they produce - including adaptations, heeding the opinions and critiques of those they trust and ignoring what anyone else says (even relatives of the original artist who would have no idea how to work in a different medium and whose view is ultimately irrelevant, no matter the connection to the source) who have no clue how to do their art for them.
"Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right... even if the whole world is telling you to move, it is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye and say, 'No, YOU move.'"
- Captain America: Civil War
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TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Nargothrond
May 28 2016, 8:03pm
Post #16 of 117
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And no, it is not disrespectful to adapt a work in one's own creative way
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Far more disrespectful to both the medium one specializes in and the medium a work originated in, the unique properties of the source and possible unique qualities of the adaptation to assume one can (and should) duplicate the original. Fool's errand that fools clamor for.
"Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right... even if the whole world is telling you to move, it is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye and say, 'No, YOU move.'"
- Captain America: Civil War
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ange1e4e5
Mithlond
May 28 2016, 8:10pm
Post #17 of 117
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Of course, the audience has to like the changes.
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I've known (to my chagrin) at least two unsatisfactory book-to-film adaptations: Eragon and the Percy Jackson series.
I always follow my job through.
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
May 28 2016, 9:50pm
Post #18 of 117
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ALL opinions are welcome here.
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If you disagree, just say so, but words like "intolerable" and "disrespectful" are a violation of our Terms of Service.
Alternatively, you can ignore those posts where you disagree.
(This post was edited by entmaiden on May 28 2016, 9:51pm)
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TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Nargothrond
May 28 2016, 10:17pm
Post #19 of 117
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Well, yeah, the changes have to work in favor of the film
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But whether or not that's the case isn't going to be very fairly judged upon by someone insistent on adherence to every line of text as a principal. Because the principal itself is faulty.
"Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right... even if the whole world is telling you to move, it is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye and say, 'No, YOU move.'"
- Captain America: Civil War
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ange1e4e5
Mithlond
May 28 2016, 10:27pm
Post #20 of 117
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Those were the ones that the changes were large negatives, in my opinion.
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I always follow my job through.
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TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Nargothrond
May 28 2016, 11:05pm
Post #21 of 117
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"Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right... even if the whole world is telling you to move, it is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye and say, 'No, YOU move.'"
- Captain America: Civil War
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Gandalf the Green
Ossiriand
May 29 2016, 12:10am
Post #22 of 117
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I felt it was a satisfactory conclusion to the trilogy. MAYBE not as good as the LOTR ending or that other trilogy in general, but certainly satisfactory on it's own terms. I don't know if I will ever change my opinion, but currently I feel these movies are severely underrated. I also vehemently disagree that the LOTR trilogy didn't suffer from a large part, or even from most of the ''problems'' that this trilogy SUPPOSEDLY has. I feel that, with time, people forgot the flaws in LOTR. Maybe with time they will view the Hobbit trilogy differently as well.
I only truly re-discovered and became a LOTR fan in the third quarter of 2011, roughly a year before The Hobbit films started coming out. No, I - and most others - did not forget. To even suggest that the LOTR trilogy is flawed in a comparable manner and degree as the Hobbit trilogy is nothing short of absurd. The notion that we just "forgot" it also pretty much seems to stem from nowhere.
(This post was edited by Gandalf the Green on May 29 2016, 12:10am)
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Omnigeek
Menegroth
May 29 2016, 12:43am
Post #23 of 117
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Some things are a matter of opinion, some aren't
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Whether the ending for The Hobbit trilogy is as good as the ending for The LOTR trilogy is a matter of opinion. Whether they were underrated is also a matter of opinion and obviously we have several different opinions on that score. However, it's not a matter of opinion that The Hobbit trilogy made more substantial and significant changes to the story than The LOTR trilogy. The LOTR didn't resurrect a long dead Orc to create a non-existent blood-feud storyline. The LOTR trilogy didn't create a Dwarf-Elf romance out of thin air. The LOTR trilogy didn't create a character for comic relief that distracted from the story. The LOTR trilogy didn't feature beardless or near-beardless dwarves.
PJ's deviations from the text in LOTR were mostly understandable -- there's a big difference between compositing some characters (Arwen/Glorfindel) or eliminating some substories (Tom Bombadil) to tighten up the story for film and making up new stuff out of whole cloth (Kili/Tauriel, Azog's hunt for Thorin, etc.). I will agree that almost no adaptation is true to every aspect of the original work, whether it's a novelization of a movie or a film of a novel, but this adaptation was almost a different story, more of a reimagining (ala the new Battlestar Galactica) than truly an adaptation and it would be a HUGE stretch to say that of the LOTR films.
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lionoferebor
Nargothrond
May 29 2016, 1:49am
Post #24 of 117
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Whether the ending for The Hobbit trilogy is as good as the ending for The LOTR trilogy is a matter of opinion. Whether they were underrated is also a matter of opinion and obviously we have several different opinions on that score. However, it's not a matter of opinion that The Hobbit trilogy made more substantial and significant changes to the story than The LOTR trilogy. The LOTR didn't resurrect a long dead Orc to create a non-existent blood-feud storyline. The LOTR trilogy didn't create a Dwarf-Elf romance out of thin air. The LOTR trilogy didn't create a character for comic relief that distracted from the story. The LOTR trilogy didn't feature beardless or near-beardless dwarves.
PJ's deviations from the text in LOTR were mostly understandable -- there's a big difference between compositing some characters (Arwen/Glorfindel) or eliminating some substories (Tom Bombadil) to tighten up the story for film and making up new stuff out of whole cloth (Kili/Tauriel, Azog's hunt for Thorin, etc.). I will agree that almost no adaptation is true to every aspect of the original work, whether it's a novelization of a movie or a film of a novel, but this adaptation was almost a different story, more of a reimagining (ala the new Battlestar Galactica) than truly an adaptation and it would be a HUGE stretch to say that of the LOTR films.
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TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Nargothrond
May 29 2016, 3:17am
Post #25 of 117
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It is still not explained how these alterations made the movies worse (as cinematic works). Just a prolonged way of saying "This trilogy had more changes to the source than the old trilogy." And yeah. Yep. Sure did.
And?
"Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right... even if the whole world is telling you to move, it is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye and say, 'No, YOU move.'"
- Captain America: Civil War
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