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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: TV Discussion: The Rings of Power:
Eight More New Cast Members Announced
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 9 2022, 5:16am

Post #1 of 78 (1756 views)
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Eight More New Cast Members Announced Can't Post

Posted by greendragon:


Quote
Asecond round of new casting for The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power has been announced by Prime Video. Eight new cast members – mostly stalwarts of British television and theatre and with impressive credentials – have been revealed. Previous appearances by these actors include shows such as Game of Thrones, Bodyguard, Versailles, The Sandman, Bridgerton, and The Crown.


They followed with the press release:


Quote
CULVER CITY, California—December 7, 2022—The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, which has been viewed by over 100 million people worldwide and has been an unprecedented global success as the top Original series for Prime Video in every region in its first season, has announced an additional eight new recurring cast members for the forthcoming second season, currently in production in the UK.

The new cast members are Oliver Alvin-Wilson, Stuart Bowman, Gavi Singh Chera, William Chubb, Kevin Eldon, Will Keen, Selina Lo, and Calam Lynch.




There are no names or descriptions for any new characters. Thoughts on the new blood?

“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Dec 9 2022, 5:24am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 9 2022, 5:59am

Post #2 of 78 (1633 views)
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Speculations [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay, we've met the new cast. Now, who might they be playing?

OLIVER ALVIN-WILSON: My first thought is that he's a Southron, maybe a warrior, maybe a noble. On the other hand, he could be one of the Istari. Morinehtar (Darkness-slayer)?

STUART BOWMAN: Could Stuart be our Círdan the Shipwright? Or a Númenórean lord and future Nazgűl?

GAVI SINGH CHERA: Man of Harad? Easterling? Gavi could be Khaműl the Easterling, though I do get more of a Haradrim vibe. Still, he could become part of the Stranger's storyline.

WILLIAM CHUBB: I get much the same feeling on Chubb as I had with Stuart Bowman. Yet another potential Círdan. Or he might even be a Dwarf; maybe the smith Narvi.

KEVIN ELDON: Eldon strongly reminds me of Hugo Weaving. He looks like a leader, perhaps later corrupted by the Shadow.

WILL KEEN: Maybe Will is Khaműl. I don't see him as an Elf or a Dwarf.

SELINA LO: Selina could possibly be an Elf-woman, but she could be from a distant region of Rhűn. She could even be a Blue Wizard (if the show wants to play around with gender-swapping) though I would cast a bit older for that.

CALAM LYNCH: An Elf? Maybe even Celeborn?

Do any of my guesses resonate with you? Do you have your own guesses?

“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Dec 9 2022, 6:00am)


AshNazg
Gondor


Dec 9 2022, 9:36am

Post #3 of 78 (1615 views)
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KEVIN ELDON?! [In reply to] Can't Post

WWWWHAT??

For those who don’t know him he’s a well-known comedic actor in the UK and will likely be the Lenny Henry of the show. He’s good in “dark comedy” roles - roles where he balances serious drama with a comedic touch.

My thinking is he will be a dwarf or harfoot - only because those tend to provide comic relief. But who knows, could be a funny orc. Certainly it will
be a somewhat comedic role, but one that requires serious acting chops.


MerlinEngine
Bree


Dec 9 2022, 1:25pm

Post #4 of 78 (1590 views)
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I bring no ill will, but [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't help but notice how speculations on who these actors may portray often settle into the very stereotypes that RoP has been trying to shake off. Why should a Southron or a Haradrim be played by a PoC? Why shouldn't Cirdan?


(This post was edited by MerlinEngine on Dec 9 2022, 1:27pm)


Eruonen
Half-elven


Dec 9 2022, 3:17pm

Post #5 of 78 (1574 views)
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They are described by Tolkien [In reply to] Can't Post

 


MerlinEngine
Bree


Dec 9 2022, 4:00pm

Post #6 of 78 (1573 views)
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Is this a [In reply to] Can't Post

"Rings of Power is certainly one of the shows of 2022" joke?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 9 2022, 4:08pm

Post #7 of 78 (1577 views)
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Tolkien's Middle-earth [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I can't help but notice how speculations on who these actors may portray often settle into the very stereotypes that RoP has been trying to shake off. Why should a Southron or a Haradrim be played by a PoC? Why shouldn't Cirdan?


Well, I am keeping Middle-earth and its people as described by J.R.R. TOLKIEN in mind. Also, none of the POC here seem old enough to me to be Círdan.

“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella


Eruonen
Half-elven


Dec 9 2022, 4:15pm

Post #8 of 78 (1567 views)
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What are you saying? I have no clue what you are referencing. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Junesong
Rohan


Dec 9 2022, 4:30pm

Post #9 of 78 (1561 views)
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I'm cool with whatever [In reply to] Can't Post

So far so good. All the actors from this list that I recognize have been great in the few things I've seen. It honestly doesn't matter to me at all who they'll end up playing. I'm excited to see what's next!

"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."


MerlinEngine
Bree


Dec 10 2022, 8:15am

Post #10 of 78 (1483 views)
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Nor do I really understand [In reply to] Can't Post

... what you're trying to say with "they're described by Tolkien". All characters have been described by Tolkien, to the extent that he gave them a description, whether that description matches what Amazon has so far put on the little screen or not.


Eruonen
Half-elven


Dec 10 2022, 5:18pm

Post #11 of 78 (1424 views)
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It is clear what I said [In reply to] Can't Post

in fact you even answered...as described by Tolkien....so what is your issue?

The issue at hand is how Amazon is choosing to ignore the text. Of course they can do what they want but fans don't have to like it or watch it.


MerlinEngine
Bree


Dec 12 2022, 9:17am

Post #12 of 78 (1310 views)
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We are in agreement, digressions aside [In reply to] Can't Post

Amazon has indeed chosen their own path, that was never in dispute. I was merely pointing out the fact that these predictions somehow tend to ignore the casting direction we've seen in the first season (whether accurate to Tolkien or not).


Owlyross
Rohan


Dec 12 2022, 4:06pm

Post #13 of 78 (1292 views)
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How about the casting of Samwise in Jackson's LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

as he was described by Tolkien as being brown skinned like a Haradrim?

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Dec 13 2022, 6:17pm)


Eruonen
Half-elven


Dec 12 2022, 8:04pm

Post #14 of 78 (1256 views)
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Can you provide a reference for Sam that he was in appearance like a Haradrim? [In reply to] Can't Post

Gardner tanned hands does not make a Hardrim.

"Sam has brown eyes. At some points his hands are described as brown.[21][22] This could indicate he belongs to the Harfoots, as they are described as having browner skin than the Fallohides, to which breed Merry, Pippin and Frodo belong.[23] Or it could simply be a tan from years of working outside. His face is often described as red-faced, turning scarlet or blushing. At one point his face is said to have turned white, before flushing scarlet."

https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Samwise_Gamgee

'Step forward, Sam!' said Merry; and Sam stood up with a face scarlet up to the ears. 'Here's our collector of information! And he collected a lot, I can tell you, before he was finally caught.
Book 1, Ch 5, A Conspiracy Unmasked, FoTR, LOTR

Hard to have a scarlet face if brown.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 12 2022, 8:29pm

Post #15 of 78 (1259 views)
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Enough about Sam [In reply to] Can't Post

I wanted a backstory for the Harad-blooded Ithilien Ranger in Faramir's company.

“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella


Eruonen
Half-elven


Dec 12 2022, 9:28pm

Post #16 of 78 (1241 views)
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Who is that? [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 13 2022, 1:49am

Post #17 of 78 (1227 views)
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Unnamed Extra? [In reply to] Can't Post

Probably a NZ stuntman who only appears on-screen for a few seconds at most. At one point you can see him sitting and enjoying a meal. Actually, I'm not sure that he wasn't cut entirely from at least the theatrical releases, though he has shown up in images used for a LotR collectible card game.

“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella


Owlyross
Rohan


Dec 13 2022, 8:50am

Post #18 of 78 (1196 views)
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Same is described twice as having "Brown hands" [In reply to] Can't Post

The only other character who is described as having "Brown hands" specifically was the Easterling (sorry, Easterling, not Haradrim, and earlier in that passage the people on Oliphaunts they are fighting are described as 'swarthy' again) warrior he has his "what lies drove him" monologue of thoughts in The Two Towers.

Are you suggested that people with brown skin can't blush?

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)


(This post was edited by Owlyross on Dec 13 2022, 8:58am)


Owlyross
Rohan


Dec 13 2022, 8:52am

Post #19 of 78 (1198 views)
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Why would he be an Haradrim? [In reply to] Can't Post

The Dunlendings were described as having darker skin (swarthy) as was Bill Ferny (who had Dunlending blood). Not all Gondorians were grey eyed and white skinned.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)


(This post was edited by Owlyross on Dec 13 2022, 8:56am)


Eruonen
Half-elven


Dec 13 2022, 3:10pm

Post #20 of 78 (1164 views)
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As a gardener he worked outside all day....though Harfoot genes may be present. [In reply to] Can't Post

Remember the class distinctions...Bilbo and Frodo, Merry and Pippin were hobbit "upper class" while Sam was working class.
In the UK the upper class tended to protect themselves from the sun while the working people could not avoid it. I imagine the same is true with Hobbits.

I expect Gondor to have many peoples living within its borders due to past migration, trade, etc. Not all men in the east and south held allegiance to Sauron though maybe most did. The east and south went through a lot of civil unrest so I imagine people fled to Gondor....Pelagir etc. I can see the soldiers of Gondor reflecting those immigrant peoples.

Tolkien offered descriptions - though not always complete.
Middle-earth is this earth and the geography and peoples who resided in those regions are similar to our ancient history for similar regions.

But, feel free to imagine the characters anyway you want to. The only issue is when text is wholly ignored for film. Even that can work due to the skill of the actor who embodies the personality of the character.


Eruonen
Half-elven


Dec 13 2022, 3:14pm

Post #21 of 78 (1162 views)
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Also, remember the Welsh are known for often having a darker look than the English [In reply to] Can't Post

...brown hair, eyes .....genetics has shown ancient Basque origin.

Tolkien was deeply affected by Welsh culture

Tom Jones and Catherine Zeta Jones are good examples.

https://toursofwales.co.uk/...ales-online-in-2007/

https://people.com/...lationship-timeline/

When I first saw her in Zorro I thought she was Hispanic.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0429367/ Sam!


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Dec 13 2022, 3:26pm)


Junesong
Rohan


Dec 13 2022, 4:09pm

Post #22 of 78 (1148 views)
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Honest Question [In reply to] Can't Post

This discussion of Sam is a great microcosm of something I've been wondering for a while - especially in the light of these modern times...

Does this stuff matter?

When adapting a book - does race have any relevance?

Certainly there are characters in some stories who's race is crucial to the plot. In those situations, there's an intrinsic logic to keeping the races the same in adaptation.

But honestly, why does it matter at all in those stories where the race is not crucial to the plot?

If I had watched Jackson's LOTR movies in 2001 and the four main hobbits had been POC - even if all four were different POC, it wouldn't have mattered at all. The story doesn't change. Nothing about it has any relevance. It wouldn't even have gotten a shrug from me.

I can't think of a single character in LOTR whose race is important to the plot. Even less so with ROP.

I've heard arguments about consistent world building and logical imagining and all the rest of it - but those are just arguments for why Tolkien's BOOK is so cool. It feels like a real faux history. No one is proposing making changes to the book. But I've still never heard an argument for racial geographical realism in adaptations.

When I saw Hermione cast as a POC in Cursed Child it didn't occur to me at all to care or be outraged. But wow it caused a stir. Same with Ariel. Same with Arondir.

Can someone who really cares about this explain why you care so much? (I hope this post doesn't sound facetious because it's not. I'm genuinely perplexed by this.)

"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."


Eruonen
Half-elven


Dec 13 2022, 4:22pm

Post #23 of 78 (1147 views)
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I recommend just leaving things as they are to avoid going down the rabbit hole [In reply to] Can't Post

and getting the thread locked.

We all have our head canon imagining from reading and like to see it on film.


DGHCaretaker
Lorien

Dec 13 2022, 6:07pm

Post #24 of 78 (1132 views)
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Depends [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
When adapting a book - does race have any relevance?


It must matter to someone when the adaptation diverges from the text. Changing it to "what the world looks like today" is a mistake; it just dates the new work as much as the original text might. Write a new, original, contemporary story for the purpose. That said, adaptations like Godspell or The Wiz is a different genre that works better. They are more "retelling" than adaptation. I don't know the name for it, but that's a better way. Perhaps they are the dreaded "allegory," and such a treatment on Tolkien is blasphemy. ;)


(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Dec 13 2022, 6:17pm)


Junesong
Rohan


Dec 13 2022, 6:39pm

Post #25 of 78 (1121 views)
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Underestimated [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't want to sell ourselves short. I think we can discuss this without rabbit holes or locked threads.

I'm a huge reader. I'm a huge movie nerd. That means I've spent my life practically drowning in adaptations.

I can't think of a single adaptation of any book or story I've read that hasn't changed something. Big things and small things - there's always change.

Why does race cause this kind of disproportionate outrage?

Let's look at Harry Potter as a short case study:

Harry Potter routinely disregarded "head canon" in its casting. Movie Slughorn doesn't look anything like book Slughorn. Neither does movie Umbridge. Or even movie Hermione for that matter. Harry's DEFINITIVE physical trait in the books (his green eyes) is completely omitted from the films. They don't even mention it.

Barely a shrug from audiences.

Compare that with the reaction to Hermione's casting in Cursed Child.

Why the disparity? Why does race cause disproportionate outrage?

There must be an answer. I genuinely believe fans when they say this outrage is not being motivated by racism. So what is driving it? Why does it cause so much outrage?

"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."

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