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Gwytha
Nargothrond
Nov 13 2021, 5:20pm
Post #2 of 9
(2052 views)
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if there really were not any other Elf-mortal marriages besides the three best known among the Elvish and mannish nobility. I had no idea there was so much Elvish blood in Imrahil. So Boromir and Faramir had a good deal more Elvish ancestry than I realized, and not all of it the blood of Numenor(unless I'm misunderstanding something here--please point it out to me if anyone notices).
Another thing I've always wondered about--why are all four of these mixed marriages mortal man and Elf woman? Didn't a male Elf ever fall in love with and/or marry a mortal woman?
Growth after all is not so much a matter of change as of ripening, and what alters most is the degree of clarity with which we see one another. -Edith Pargeter
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Felagund
Nargothrond
Nov 14 2021, 4:13pm
Post #3 of 9
(2036 views)
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the 'Elvishness' of the princes of Dol Amroth; unions between Elves & Humans
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Imrahil is 22 generations removed from his Silvan Elvish forebear, Mithrellas but that's still closer than Aragorn is to his nearest Elvish ancestors. This info is tucked away in the 'Heirs of Elendil' chapter, in HoMe 12. Unfinished Tales, via "The History of Galadriel & Celeborn' also adds to the confusing fun as to what's going on with the house of the Princes of Dol Amroth; as well as Legolas' remark about the 'Elvishness' of Imrahil in LotR ('The Last Debate').
What makes this family's situation something of an anomaly in Tolkien's legendarium is that Galador, the son of Mithrellas and Imrazôr, was not, as far as we know, designated as a peredhel or 'half-elf', or given a choice on which of the Two Kindreds he would belong to. I suspect there's debate to be had over how the term peredhel was delimited, with the constructed The Silmarillion confining it to Eärendil, Elrond and Elros, whilst other texts include Dior and his descendants ('The Shibboleth of Fëanor' & 'The Problem of Ros', both in HoMe 12; & Letter 153).
In reply to your question about whether a male Elf ever fell for a Human female, the closest Tolkien ever seems to get to that is the unrequited love between Aegnor and Andreth, of the House of Bëor - for some additional context, these are the brother of Galadriel and the great aunt of Beren, respectively. This sad tale is told in the 'Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth', as published in HoMe 10.
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Eruonen
Gondolin
Nov 14 2021, 6:17pm
Post #4 of 9
(2021 views)
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What is the network extent of Mordorfone? Does it co-opt Verizon, US Cellular
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etc. to work on its behalf with golden transmission towers and Mordor G packet switching protocol?
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Felagund
Nargothrond
Nov 14 2021, 8:17pm
Post #5 of 9
(2015 views)
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Best coverage was during the Second Age but then my transmission tower lost its One Ring Booster. Used to have a link-up deal with Angband Tech but that company sunk a while back.
Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk
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SirDennisC
Gondolin
Nov 15 2021, 1:34pm
Post #6 of 9
(1989 views)
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The service was spotty in Osgilliath, ‘tis said. /
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Cirashala
Doriath
Nov 16 2021, 8:37pm
Post #7 of 9
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Not unrequited, according to Finrod, who was Aegnor's brother
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The reason Andreth and Aegnor didn't marry was because the elves were at war with Morgoth, and elves didn't marry in a time of war (Finrod explains this to Andreth in Athrabeth). They didn't want to risk leaving one spouse widowed/widower, especially with a child involved.
Aegnor loved her deeply, and would take no other wife in his long life, out of respect of his love for Andreth, and her memory. In fact, he actually PRECEDED Andreth in death, having fallen during her lifetime in the battle of Dagor Bragollach.
Finrod himself had enough foresight to conclude that an elf/Man union would be part of "some high doom". Little did he realize that he would end up facilitating the first elf/Man union himself, when he fulfilled the oath of Barahir and aided Beren to win the Silmaril!
However, he was killed during that quest, so never got to witness the union of Eldar/Edain that he had been hesitant about in his conversation with Andreth.
But he reassures Andreth SEVERAL times during their conversation that Aegnor loved her deeply, had loved her ever since he first saw her drawing water, and the reflection of the stars made it look like one was caught in her hair (how romantic is that??? Sorry, I digress. Beautiful imagery, though!).
So the reason why they didn't marry was not unrequited love- they loved each other deeply- it was that the elves were at war, and they don't marry during times of war, so that they don't widow/widower their spouses, and leave their children without a father (or mother. Most women didn't fight, BUT could still be counted amongst civilian casualties, depending on how the war goes). Thus, Aegnor left her to go to war, but his heart was still hers. SHE, however, didn't understand that aspect of elvish nature, and falsely thought he'd abandoned her.
Finrod assured her that was most definitely not the case.
My writing and novels:
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You can also find my novel at most major book retailers online (and for those outside the US who prefer a print book, you can find the print version at Book Depository). Search "Amazing Grace Amanda Longpre'" to find it.
Happy reading everyone!
My writing and novels:
My Hobbit Fanfiction
My historical novel print and kindle version
My historical novels ebook version compatible with all ereaders
You can also find my novel at most major book retailers online (and for those outside the US who prefer a print book, you can find the print version at Book Depository). Search "Amazing Grace Amanda Longpre'" to find it.
Happy reading everyone!
(This post was edited by Cirashala on Nov 16 2021, 8:38pm)
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Felagund
Nargothrond
Nov 17 2021, 9:34pm
Post #8 of 9
(1930 views)
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A poor choice of word on my part! Andreth was indeed mistaken in her belief that Aegnor did not truly love her. And I agree, that passage you quoted is a beautiful one from our romantic Professor. Tolkien also uses an arresting 'moth to the flame' description here too.
In many respects, I find the unhappy tale of Andreth and Aegnor's love even more sorrowful than the various tragic twists and turns of Beren and Lúthien's romance. The latter two, after much suffering, at least shared years together by the end. Poor Andreth and Aegnor had nothing like that.
And in the spirit of 'threes', let's turn to Finrod's own tragic love story - how he was sundered from his beloved Amarië, "who was not permitted to go with him into exile", according to the 'Grey Annals'. They are reunited but only once Finrod dies in the darkness of Sauron's dungeons.
Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk
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Hamfast Gamgee
Dor-Lomin
Dec 7 2021, 6:54am
Post #9 of 9
(1678 views)
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Is that the Dol Amorth prince also had considerable Gondor royal blood in him, But perhaps not quite enough for him to claim the throne and there would have been other claimants anyway and none would want a re-start of the kin-strife at the time when Gondor was weak. And neither did he fancy trouble with the ruling stewards, but that might explain his title of Prince which is fairly ambiguous and his leadership skills.
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