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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Dec 10 2019, 11:25am
Post #26 of 59
(1908 views)
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Here's part 3 of a 3-part look at Frodo and Sam dealing with Gollum and seeking shelter in a covert on their way to the Cross-roads… for a moment of Tolkien-zen.
From Journey to the Cross-Roads: The Two Towers
..."The afternoon, as Sam supposed it must be called, wore on. Looking out from the covert he could see only a dun, shadowless world... ...It felt stifling but not warm. Frodo slept unquietly, turning and tossing, and sometimes murmuring. Twice Sam thought he heard him speaking Gandalf's name. The time seemed to drag interminably. Suddenly Sam heard a hiss behind him, and there was Gollum on all fours, peering at them with gleaming eyes.
... 'Wake up... ...Wake up, sleepies!' he whispered. 'Wake up! No time to lose. We must go, yes, we must go at once. No time to lose!'
... Sam stared at him suspiciously: he seemed frightened or excited. 'Go now? What's your little game? It isn't time yet. It can't be tea-time even, leastways not in decent places where there is tea-time.'
... 'Silly!' hissed Gollum. 'We're not in decent places. Time's running short, yes, running fast. No time to lose... ...Wake up, Master, wake up!' He clawed at Frodo; and Frodo, startled out of sleep, sat up suddenly and seized him by the arm. Gollum tore himself loose and backed away.
... 'They mustn't be silly,' he hissed. 'We must go. No time to lose!' And nothing more could they get out of him."
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Dec 11 2019, 3:32pm
Post #27 of 59
(1884 views)
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Here's the first part of a 4-part Book Spoiler telling the history of the Red Book of Westmarch... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. From Note on the Shire Records: The Fellowship of the Ring
…"At the end of the Third Age the part played by the Hobbits in the great events that led to the inclusion of the Shire in the Reunited Kingdom awakened among them a more widespread interest in their own history; and many of their traditions... ...still mainly oral, were collected and written down. The greater families were also concerned with events in the Kingdom at large, and many of their members studied its ancient histories and legends. By the end of the first century of the Fourth Age there were... ...to be found in the Shire several libraries that contained many historical books and records.
… The largest of these collections were probably at Undertowers, at Great Smials, and at Brandy Hall. This account of the end of the Third Age is drawn mainly from the Red Book of Westmarch. That most important source for the history of the War of the Ring was so called because it was long preserved at Undertowers, the home of the Fairbairns, Wardens of the Westmarch. It was in origin Bilbo's private diary, which he took with him to Rivendell. Frodo brought it back to the Shire, together with many loose leaves of notes... ...during S.R. 1420-1 he nearly filled its pages with his account of the War... ...preserved with it, probably in a single red case, were the three large volumes, bound in red leather, that Bilbo gave to him as a parting gift. To these four volumes there was added in Westmarch a fifth containing commentaries, genealogies, and various other matter concerning the hobbit members of the Fellowship."
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Dec 12 2019, 12:22pm
Post #28 of 59
(1861 views)
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Here's the second part of a 4-part Book Spoiler telling the history of the Red Book of Westmarch... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. From Note on the Shire Records: The Fellowship of the Ring
…"The original Red Book has not been preserved, but many copies were made, especially of the first volume, for the use of the descendants of the children of Master Samwise. The most important copy... ...has a different history. It was kept at Great Smials, but it was written in Gondor, probably at the request of the great-grandson of Peregrin, and completed in S.R. 1592 (F.A. 172). Its southern scribe appended this note: Findegil, King's Writer, finished this work in IV 172. It is an exact copy in all details of the Thrain's Book in Minas Tirith. That book was a copy... ...at the request of King Elessar, of the Red Book of the Periannath, and was brought to him by the Thain Peregrin when he retired to Gondor in IV 64.
… The Thain's book was... ...the first copy made of the Red Book and contained much that was later omitted or lost. In Minas Tirith it received much annotation, and many corrections, especially of names, words, and quotations in the Elvish languages; and there was added to it an abbreviated version of... ...parts of The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen which lie outside the account of the War. The full tale is stated to have been written by Barahir, grandson of the Steward Faramir, some time after the passing of the king. But the chief importance of Findegil's copy is... ...it alone contains the whole of Bilbo's 'Translations from the Elvish'. These three volumes were found to be a work of great skill and learning in which, between 1403 and 1418, he had used all the sources available to him in Rivendell, both living and written. But since they were little used by Frodo, being almost entirely concerned with the Eldar Days, no more is said of them here."
We have been there and back again.
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CuriousG
Gondolin
Dec 12 2019, 3:34pm
Post #29 of 59
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You can tell from this passage that Tolkien was an academic
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and they love talking about these things. I do too, actually, but I think most people's eyes would glaze over.
I'm wondering about all the corrections that were needed, and if hobbit writers had gone a little too local.
Frodo Baggins of Hobbiton took the evil Ring to a faraway land, a little past Bree. The Ring was made by Bill Ferny Sauron, who had been previously been defeated by the Old Took Gil-Galad in the Last Pub Crawl Last Alliance of Elves and Men. With the wise advice of Barliman Butterbur Gandalf and the help of a few, scarcely worth mentioning non-hobbits Elves, Men, and Dwarves, the Shire achieved total victory over all evil, thus ensuring the continued efficiency of our postal system.
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Dec 13 2019, 1:51am
Post #30 of 59
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As someone who worked in an academic library and my job was bibliographic and authority processing... I eat this up! :D
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Dec 13 2019, 11:38am
Post #31 of 59
(1781 views)
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Here's the third part of a 4-part Book Spoiler telling the history of the Red Book of Westmarch... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. From Note on the Shire Records: The Fellowship of the Ring
… "Since Meriadoc and Peregrin became the heads of their great families, and the same time kept up their connexions with Rohan and Gondor, the libraries at Bucklebury and Tuckborough contained much that did not appear in the Red Book. In Brandy Hall there were many works dealing with Eriador and the history of Rohan. Some of these were composed or begun by Meriadoc himself, though in the Shire he was chiefly remembered for his Herblore of the Shire, and for his Reckoning of Years in which he discussed the relation of the calendars of the Shire and Bree to those of Rivendell, Gondor, and Rohan. He also wrote a short treatise on Old Words and Names in the Shire, showing special interest in discovering the kinship with the language of the Rohirrim of such 'shire-words' as mathom and old elements in place names."
We have been there and back again.
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(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Dec 13 2019, 11:39am)
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Dec 13 2019, 1:05pm
Post #32 of 59
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Well, this does go right along with all those "recommendations" the Breelanders made to Frodo about what to include in his story! 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
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CuriousG
Gondolin
Dec 13 2019, 1:23pm
Post #33 of 59
(1772 views)
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but glad you enjoyed it. I was inspired by this in "Homeward Bound," which I've always found funny:
Bree memories being retentive, Frodo was asked many times if he had written his book.
‘Not yet,’ he answered. ‘I am going home now to put my notes in order.’ He promised to deal with the amazing events at Bree, and so give a bit of interest to a book that appeared likely to treat mostly of the remote and less important affairs ‘away south’.
Tolkien, J.R.R.. The Lord of the Rings: One Volume (p. 995). HMH Books. Kindle Edition.
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CuriousG
Gondolin
Dec 13 2019, 2:59pm
Post #34 of 59
(1768 views)
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Hidden gems found in the spleen
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I mean, appendix!
This builds on the exchange between Theoden and the hobbits when they met at Isengard, that there might be some distant link between their peoples, even more remarkable considering how warlike the people of Eorl are and how pacifist the hobbits are.
He also wrote a short treatise on Old Words and Names in the Shire, showing special interest in discovering the kinship with the language of the Rohirrim of such 'shire-words' as mathom and old elements in place names.
I really like the Merry-Theoden relationship, however briefly it gets touched on. They formed a strong and unlikely bond, and it apparently influenced Merry for the rest of his life, given his scholarly pursuits:
Merry could not speak, but wept anew. ‘Forgive me, lord,’ he said at last, ‘if I broke your command, and yet have done no more in your service than to weep at our parting.’
The old king smiled. ‘Grieve not! It is forgiven. Great heart will not be denied. Live now in blessedness; and when you sit in peace with your pipe, think of me! For never now shall I sit with you in Meduseld, as I promised, or listen to your herb-lore.’
‘Well,’ answered Merry slowly. ‘He is dead. It has brought it all back to me. He said he was sorry he had never had a chance of talking herb-lore with me. Almost the last thing he ever said. I shan’t ever be able to smoke again without thinking of him, and that day, Pippin, when he rode up to Isengard and was so polite.’
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Dec 13 2019, 3:56pm
Post #35 of 59
(1761 views)
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This builds on the exchange between Theoden and the hobbits when they met at Isengard, that there might be some distant link between their peoples, even more remarkable considering how warlike the people of Eorl are and how pacifist the hobbits are.
Well, if (in the history of Arda) all Men originally came from the distant East, that must also be true of the Hobbits. Perhaps before the Hobbits came to live in the Vales of Anduin they dwelt along the banks of the Running River and learned the language of the Men of Rhovanion. At the very least, they might have picked up the speech from the Eorlingas in the Anduin Vales.
#FidelityToTolkien
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Lissuin
Doriath
Dec 13 2019, 10:17pm
Post #36 of 59
(1746 views)
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CG, you are causing various reactions this morning.
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I had just finished breakfast, was working my way through TORn, and snorted at "spleen". Then I read your thoughts and quotes about Theoden and Merry and suddenly I was in big, sloppy tears. The Professor and Gramma and you have conspired to awaken the weeping woman of Wellington.  But it's ok because, well, you know, "not all tears...."
Cheers.
CuriousG:
I really like the Merry-Theoden relationship, however briefly it gets touched on. They formed a strong and unlikely bond, and it apparently influenced Merry for the rest of his life, given his scholarly pursuits:
Merry could not speak, but wept anew. ‘Forgive me, lord,’ he said at last, ‘if I broke your command, and yet have done no more in your service than to weep at our parting.’
The old king smiled. ‘Grieve not! It is forgiven. Great heart will not be denied. Live now in blessedness; and when you sit in peace with your pipe, think of me! For never now shall I sit with you in Meduseld, as I promised, or listen to your herb-lore.’
‘Well,’ answered Merry slowly. ‘He is dead. It has brought it all back to me. He said he was sorry he had never had a chance of talking herb-lore with me. Almost the last thing he ever said. I shan’t ever be able to smoke again without thinking of him, and that day, Pippin, when he rode up to Isengard and was so polite.’
(This post was edited by Lissuin on Dec 13 2019, 10:18pm)
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Dec 14 2019, 2:26pm
Post #37 of 59
(1681 views)
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Here's the fourth part of a 4-part Book Spoiler telling the history of the Red Book of Westmarch... for a moment of Tolkien-zen.
From Note on the Shire Records: The Fellowship of the Ring
…"At Great Smials the books were of less interest to Shirefolk, though more important for larger history. None of them was written by Peregrin, but he and his successors collected many manuscripts written by scribes of Gondor: mainly copies or… …histories or legends relating to Elendil and his heirs. Only here in the Shire were to be found extensive materials for the history of Númenor and the arising of Sauron. It was probably at Great Smials that The Tale of Years was put together, with the assistance of material collected by Meriadoc. Though the dates… …are often conjectural, especially for the Second Age, they deserve attention. It is probable that Meriadoc obtained assistance and information from Rivendell, which he visited more than once… …though Elrond had departed, his sons long remained, together with some of the High-elven folk. It is said that Celeborn went to dwell there after the departure of Galadriel; but there is no record of the day when at last he sought the Grey Havens, and with him went the last living memory of the Elder Days in Middle-earth."
We have been there and back again.
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CuriousG
Gondolin
Dec 14 2019, 4:24pm
Post #39 of 59
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Next there will be a flood at the Ford of Bruinen, but I blame it on Tolkien. I find just about everything with Merry & Theoden to be tear-jerky. I should have added to the context the scene of Merry becoming his knight plus their first meeting. Theoden's prescient words "for a little while" and then his kindness to Merry while he's dying--well, I have something in my eye now. 
[Isengard's ruins] ‘Farewell, my hobbits! May we meet again in my house! There you shall sit beside me and tell me all that your hearts desire: the deeds of your grandsires, as far as you can reckon them; and we will speak also of Tobold the Old and his herb-lore. Farewell!’
‘As a father you shall be to me,’ said Merry.
‘For a little while,’ said Théoden.
Merry could not speak, but wept anew. ‘Forgive me, lord,’ he said at last, ‘if I broke your command, and yet have done no more in your service than to weep at our parting.’
The old king smiled. ‘Grieve not! It is forgiven. Great heart will not be denied. Live now in blessedness; and when you sit in peace with your pipe, think of me! For never now shall I sit with you in Meduseld, as I promised, or listen to your herb-lore.’
‘Well,’ answered Merry slowly. ‘He is dead. It has brought it all back to me. He said he was sorry he had never had a chance of talking herb-lore with me. Almost the last thing he ever said. I shan’t ever be able to smoke again without thinking of him, and that day, Pippin, when he rode up to Isengard and was so polite.’
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Kimi
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Dec 14 2019, 10:10pm
Post #40 of 59
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The relationship between Theoden and Merry is beautifully drawn, and I love the way you've captured its essence. It also make a sharp contrast with that between Pippin and Denethor.
The Passing of Mistress Rose
My historical novels
Do we find happiness so often that we should turn it off the box when it happens to sit there?
- A Room With a View
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CuriousG
Gondolin
Dec 15 2019, 2:21am
Post #42 of 59
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Thank you. And yes, poor Pippin had the opposite experience. //
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Dec 15 2019, 2:30pm
Post #43 of 59
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This is a Book Spoiler I wanted to share just because of the wonderful descriptions... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. From The Last Debate: The Return of the King
..."'Aragorn was driven by fear that time was too short.
...'"It is forty leagues and two from Pelargir to the landings at the Harlond," he said. "Yet to the Harlond we must come tomorrow or fail utterly."
...'The oars were now wielded by free men... ...yet slowly we passed up the Great River, for we strove against its stream, and though that is not swift down in the South, we had no help of wind. Heavy would my heart have been... ...if Legolas had not laughed suddenly.
...'"Up with your beard, Durin's son!" he said. "For thus is it spoken: oft hope is born, when all is forlorn." But what hope he saw from afar he would not tell. When night came it did not deepen the darkness, and our hearts were hot, for away in the north we saw a red glow... ...and Aragorn said: "Minas Tirith is burning."
...'But at midnight hope was indeed born anew. Seacrafty men of the Ethir gazing southward spoke of a change coming with a fresh wind from the Sea. Long ere day the masted ships hoisted sail, and our speed grew, until dawn whitened the foam at our prows. And so it was... ...that we came in the third hour of the morning with a fair wind and the Sun unveiled, and we unfurled the great standard in battle. It was a great day and a great hour, whatever may come after.'"
We have been there and back again.
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Cirashala
Doriath
Dec 16 2019, 3:30am
Post #44 of 59
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or had foresight that the wind was coming from the sea, thanks to the sea-longing that had been awakened in him? Perhaps part of the sea-longing awakening is that the elves suddenly become very attuned to the sea and winds so that they can find their way to the straight road?
I don't know why, but I'm suddenly reminded of Moana (Disney) and how she learned to "read the sea" and environment, as it were, and became a wayfinder...
Maybe this was Legolas' moment of becoming a wayfinder himself, as it were, and thus he was able to know even before the experienced Men sailors that the wind was going to shift?
My writing and novels:
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You can also find my novel at most major book retailers online (and for those outside the US who prefer a print book, you can find the print version at Book Depository). Search "Amazing Grace Amanda Longpre'" to find it.
Happy reading everyone!
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Dec 16 2019, 12:46pm
Post #45 of 59
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Today in Middle-earth
December 16, 2941 (S.R. 1342)
1. Travelling around Mirkwood.
(determined from text-no text)
...Gandalf, Bilbo and Beorn continue travelling around the border of Mirkwood after leaving the Lonely Mountain. They chose to skirt the Forest along the northern edge of the waste and not to journey through Mirkwood as Bilbo and the Dwarves attempted before. Bilbo wondered why Beorn planned to travel north instead of following the old forest path encouraged by the Elvenking? Though he was glad to be with both Beorn and Gandalf on this journey.
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Dec 16 2019, 12:58pm
Post #46 of 59
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That really makes sense and seems to be the case. Plus, after being a land-lubber for so very long, the scent of the sea would definitely be something he would notice :)
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CuriousG
Gondolin
Dec 16 2019, 3:59pm
Post #47 of 59
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It does seem like Legolas was aware of some positive change coming,
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and I like your comparison to Moana. (Geez, what would movie-Legolas do if he were on a raft in the ocean and he kept getting seawater in his long blond hair? Would he have a pretty-boy meltdown?)
It seems like he should have told Gimli, as his friend, what he was talking about, but then we wouldn't have that hint of mystery.
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Cirashala
Doriath
Dec 16 2019, 9:20pm
Post #49 of 59
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Tolkien all but described him as a bad*** in a nutshell when a picture of a very "ladylike" Legolas circulated around at one point  It is quite scathing to the artist and quite amusing to read!
To answer your question- I think he'd toss Gimli off the raft because logically the only way he kept getting seawater in his hair is if Gimli splashed him first 
True...but I wonder if he couldn't quite articulate it as the sensation was entirely new to him. Or maybe he was just being a pain in the butt to his friend, as best buds are wont to do on occasion What's that phrase? If I give you a hard time it's because I like you and that's how you know I'm your friend?
I wonder if he just enjoyed watching Gimli try to figure it out and getting annoyed that he couldn't Sometimes it's fun poking fun at a friend by doing the "I know something you don't know" and driving them nuts.
Not that I've EVER done that, mind you
My writing and novels:
My Hobbit Fanfiction
My historical novel print and kindle version
My historical novels ebook version compatible with all ereaders
You can also find my novel at most major book retailers online (and for those outside the US who prefer a print book, you can find the print version at Book Depository). Search "Amazing Grace Amanda Longpre'" to find it.
Happy reading everyone!
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It's time for a bit more BS!
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