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Hasuwandil
Lorien
Oct 11 2019, 4:49pm
Post #26 of 64
(1913 views)
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Hmm, accordions are also used in Tejano music, or Tex-Mex (which has strong Eastern European influences), and they are looking for Latino actors...
Hêlâ Auriwandil, angilô berhtost,
oƀar Middangard mannum gisandid!
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Chen G.
Rohan
Oct 11 2019, 4:51pm
Post #27 of 64
(1910 views)
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its much too new an instrument to feature in this point of Middle Earth history, and I'm not talking strictly Tolkien here. Seeing it played in Numenor (which is kind-of meant to evoke classical antiquity, and certainly does so in the films) would seem out-of-time.
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Marmoon
The Shire
Oct 11 2019, 5:58pm
Post #28 of 64
(1887 views)
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I’m in agreement with kzer_za (though my post above was less concise). Scale doubles will be the easiest way to achieve an approximate 1-foot / 30-cm height difference between Númenóreans and mainlanders. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to expect seeing Númenóreans portrayed nearing 7 feet / 213 cm, given that their average height was recorded as 6’ 4” / 193 cm. But because of the dearth of very tall actors, short scale doubles will likely be used.
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InTheChair
Lorien
Oct 11 2019, 5:58pm
Post #29 of 64
(1887 views)
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The Numenorean are supposedly meant to be more advanced than the rest of ME
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Pehaps a bit of accordion sound in their theme will help set them apart?
(This post was edited by InTheChair on Oct 11 2019, 5:59pm)
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Chen G.
Rohan
Oct 11 2019, 6:34pm
Post #30 of 64
(1874 views)
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Accordion is too folksy an instrument to be associated with a highly-sophisticated culture. Its why it was used for The Shire.
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Hasuwandil
Lorien
Oct 11 2019, 6:51pm
Post #31 of 64
(1872 views)
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Yeah, I'm thinking the Númenóreans should be represented by the sound of a theremin, or something like that.
Hêlâ Auriwandil, angilô berhtost,
oƀar Middangard mannum gisandid!
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2ndBreffest
Lorien
Oct 11 2019, 7:05pm
Post #32 of 64
(1861 views)
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I agree...and to which I say, do not rule out the possibility of there being hobbits depicted in this. Afterall, the target audience of this is very obviously fans of the PJ movies, all of which had hobbits in them. Purists will be the only ones who will really take issue with something like this for the most part, and fans of the PJ movies have demonstrated far more acceptance of changes and alterations from the source material. I think their main goal will be to create something that looks and feels like the PJ movies and appease that particular audience. Hard-line Tolkien fans are almost certain to be unhappy with this series regardless, due to the amount of fan-ficcing that will be required to flesh out what little Tolkien wrote of this period, and I doubt amazon are going to worry too much about it.
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squire
Half-elven
Oct 11 2019, 7:49pm
Post #33 of 64
(1844 views)
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What's the advantage of most of the lead characters appearing to be seven feet tall?
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It seems like a heck of a lot of work, with the constant risk of a breaking of the illusion in any number of ways involving props, sets, costumes, lighting and body language.-- all for the effect of making them seem like freaks.
And then nowhere in the written stories does the fantastic tallness of Elves and Dunedain serve a plot point or thematic purpose, winning a battle or turning the tables in an otherwise losing situation relative to the shorter races. It seems rather to cater to Tolkien's mythic sense that taller = morally superior Children in the eyes of Eru. In much the same archaic way noblemen were usually taller than serfs in the good old days (thanks to better diets); likewise there is the tradition in medieval art that the more important the character, the larger he or she is drawn in the composition.
It's also eerily, if less offensively, similar to his use of paleness and/or 'fair'-ness to qualify a moral as well as physical beauty in his Elves and Men.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
 = Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
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uncle Iorlas
Lorien
Oct 11 2019, 7:52pm
Post #34 of 64
(1843 views)
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To be honest I should check myself, I have no idea how old accordions are anyway, though right off the bat I imagine they came along a good bit later than concertinas.
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Archestratie
Rivendell
Oct 13 2019, 1:17am
Post #35 of 64
(1742 views)
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Why need someone with missing teeth? Black caps are easy enough.
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Lissuin
Valinor
Oct 13 2019, 4:24pm
Post #37 of 64
(1676 views)
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"Bearded Hairy Biker men/women/other"
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I'm pretty sure they mean these guys, The Hairy Bikers.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/...ing-new-cookbook-tv/
i.e. natural, long hair (long wigs by the dozens are expensive), character faces/bodies for background actors as in Bree and Laketown. "Have hair. Will travel." Location in Middle-earth to be determined.
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SirDennisC
Half-elven
Oct 13 2019, 11:01pm
Post #38 of 64
(1627 views)
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This particular extras call notwithstanding
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Hoping we’ll see more of you in this series, that is if you’re interested!
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Lissuin
Valinor
Oct 13 2019, 11:47pm
Post #39 of 64
(1618 views)
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I could certainly do a bearded, concertina-playing, hairy biker woman, Sir D.
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Now, fingers crossed for some filming in Wellington.
(vroom vroom)
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The Dude
Bree
Oct 14 2019, 1:38am
Post #40 of 64
(1600 views)
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The accordion and high culture
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Accordion is too folksy an instrument to be associated with a highly-sophisticated culture. Its why it was used for The Shire.
I think the French would object to that statement. ^^
And the accordion itself is a highly-sophisticated musical instrument, that first rose to fame in the leading cultural cities of nineteenth-century Europe.
Regarding the casting call: Maybe they are searching for accordion players because they need extras who look authentic when playing a similar-looking instrument. It is unlikely that we will actually get to hear them play. I would not dismiss the chance of a "Hobbiton intro" either, however.
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Althoun
Lorien
Oct 17 2019, 8:51pm
Post #41 of 64
(1388 views)
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There is an interesting reference in HoMe to the instruments played by the Vanyar, Noldor and Teleri respectively:
Vanyar - 'congregated harps'
Noldor - 'viols and instruments'
Teleri - 'pipes'
Speaking of musical instruments more generally, this discussion has brought the following paragraph from chapter 5 (The Steward and the King) of RotK to my mind.
Its just before the bit where Gandalf and Aragorn return to Minas Tirith from the Field of Cormallen for the coronation ceremony:
"All things were now made ready in the City; and there was great concourse of people, for the tidings had gone out into all the parts of Gondor...and from Dol Amroth came the harpers that harped most skilfully in all the land; and there were players upon viols and upon flutes and upon horns of silver, and clear-voiced singers from the vales of Lebennin...
'Behold the King!'
And in that moment all the trumpets were blown, and the King Elessar went forth and came to the barrier, and Hurin of the Keys thrust it back; and amid the music of harp and of viol and of flute and the singing of clear voices the King passed through the flower-laden streets."
The sense I'm getting from the Lotronprime casting calls is that there, perhaps, might be a similar kind of festivity or grand celebration going on, which would warrant so many musicians being required in the background (and all the circus stuff too, like the need for "jugglers").
Although I must admit, the precise reason why one of the casting agencies is searching for, "4”6 to 4”11 (foot high) Musicians" in particular currently eludes me. Why must they be diminutive minstrels, harpists/ flute-players/violists, as opposed to tall ones? Are they 'performing' for the tall folk?
(This post was edited by Althoun on Oct 17 2019, 8:56pm)
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Althoun
Lorien
Oct 17 2019, 10:02pm
Post #42 of 64
(1370 views)
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Also, the "main cast" thus far......
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For whatever reason, Amazon evidently want lots and lots of extras with musical talent in this show (judging from the casting calls we've seen in public). Two of the three lead actors that have (reportedly) either been in talks for a role in the show or have actually been cast in it, are 'musicians'.
Maxim Baldry is in a band (guitarist but also sings) and Markella Kavenagh has a sound-cloud of her singing on her instagram. Whilst those are likely common pastimes among thespians and drama-school alumni, the fact the show is expressly on a search for musicians in New Zealand makes me wonder if there might be more to it.
(This post was edited by Althoun on Oct 17 2019, 10:04pm)
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Oct 17 2019, 10:53pm
Post #43 of 64
(1362 views)
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I mean, I'm not complaining; I love music - but it definitely seems like a pattern is emerging.
"It is my duty to fight" - Mulan
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Hasuwandil
Lorien
Oct 18 2019, 3:27pm
Post #44 of 64
(1252 views)
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I'm not aware that Tolkien wrote any songs or poems specifically for his Second Age material, although some of the songs and poems in his novels might possibly have been passed down from the Second Age, and some (e.g. "The Fall of Gil-galad") are certainly about the Second Age. It would make sense for Amazon to include music and song in the series, and not just background soundtrack music.
One thing I really liked about The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey was the a capella rendition of "Far Over the Misty Mountains Cold". However, I will always picture the scene more the the Hildebrandt brothers' painting:
An Unexpected Party
I hope the Dwarves in the Amazon series look more like that than the ones in the movies.
Hêlâ Auriwandil, angilô berhtost,
oƀar Middangard mannum gisandid!
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Althoun
Lorien
Oct 18 2019, 5:12pm
Post #45 of 64
(1218 views)
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Another BGT casting call, by video...
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Hardly any views on this one (and the woman seems a little bit cookie) but she is actually pretty explanatory as to what Amazon are looking for, much more specific than previous ones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGnL_HtBsWo
There were some questions over just what the casting calls meant by "Eurasian".
The video above clarifies with a list of countries: "Southeast Asia - Thai, Vietnamese, Malaysian, Mongolian, Nepalese & Maori looks". She says, moreover, if "you are really short and little" as well as being 'Eurasian', then that would be good (????).
This immediately makes me think of the inland sea of Rhûn (Easterlings, Wainriders, Balchoth) and maybe a plot involving Sauron in the East before he relocates to Mordor, or Khamul the Easterling who becomes one of the Nine Ring-wraiths.
There was also a Reddit leak a few weeks ago involving Irish actors in an audition, who were encouraged to act like "furious Celts" (really play up and emphasise their Irish accents) in a scenario whereby they had to pretend to be protecting women and children.
This video asks for Irish with red hair and freckles to "get in there quick". She adopts a phoney Irish accent and keeps it up for a while. But she actually asks for both "short" and "tall" red-heads ("all ages, shapes and sizes").
Also white hair is really emphasised and request for ethereal, androgynous people - with David Bowie used as an example.
Again, Latinos/Hispanic looks are really sought after - "lovely olive skin, mountain people, dark hair, dark eyebrows" and the countries listed are: Argentinian, Mexican, Spanish, Guatemalan. This one - I'm not sure but the new guy Maxim Baldry (even though he's of part Russian/Polish extraction) has that kind of very tanned, olive-looking skin.
(This post was edited by Althoun on Oct 18 2019, 5:20pm)
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kzer_za
Lorien
Oct 18 2019, 6:07pm
Post #46 of 64
(1179 views)
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Could the short Eurasians be Druedain? //
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uncle Iorlas
Lorien
Oct 18 2019, 6:18pm
Post #47 of 64
(1176 views)
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Easterlings seem the obvious disposition for a crowd of Asian extras, unless they decide to play Umbar that way or some such thing.
As for the redheaded Celts, that could fall a number of ways, but I find myself imagining that maybe these are the continental humans that the Numenoreans casually occupy for lumber and such.
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The Dude
Bree
Oct 18 2019, 6:26pm
Post #48 of 64
(1174 views)
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The video looks and feels like an odd mix between a learning video for very young children and a mental breakdown vlog. The lines ("really, really short, ti-, TINY people...") combined with the hand gestures - pure comedy gold.
There is second video on the same page (with, alas, a slightly less comedic presenter) that explicitly states that they are scouting "for the upcoming Amazon original series based on the Lord of the Rings".
I have never heard the term "Eurasian" used as a catch-all term for (some) South-East Asian ethnicities, Mongolians, Nepalis and Māori. Is there something I do not know about Kiwi terminology? Usually, the term "Eurasian" is either used to refer to minorities with a mixed European-(East) Asian background (in a mostly Western context) or to refer to indigenous ethnic groups in Western Central Asia. I looked up the 2018 census for New Zealand and it seems that there are somewhat sizable groups of people living in the country that were born in Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, and (to a lesser extent) in Nepal. But there also plenty of people living in New Zealand who hailed from Cambodia, the Philippines, Indonesia, and on the other hand, north-eastern Asia. In other words, I still do not have a clue what the term "Eurasian" means in this particular context.
Also, I might be able to understand how the words "Latinos" (the Americanism though...) and "olive skin" could be associated with each other, but how does this lead us to "mountain people"? ^^ Again, comedy gold.
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kzer_za
Lorien
Oct 18 2019, 6:29pm
Post #49 of 64
(1170 views)
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Easterlings aren't noted for their dimunitive height
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The video says that they want people around 4'6 from the Eurasians. Indeed, I doubt people that tiny would have caused Gondor as much trouble as they did. I think Druedain is more likely. Or perhaps they will have Southeast Asians playing both, who knows.
(This post was edited by kzer_za on Oct 18 2019, 6:33pm)
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Althoun
Lorien
Oct 18 2019, 6:32pm
Post #50 of 64
(1168 views)
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Easterlings seem the obvious disposition for a crowd of Asian extras, unless they decide to play Umbar that way or some such thing.
As for the redheaded Celts, that could fall a number of ways, but I find myself imagining that maybe these are the continental humans that the Numenoreans casually occupy for lumber and such.
About the Celts maybe being the native men of Minhiriath and Enedwaith, that's personally what I think as well.
The audition scenario - with redhead Irish Celts defending women and children from basket-ball player-sized folk - seemed to hint at a colonial situation, akin to this from Tal-Elmar in HoME:
And the High Men of the Sea (Númenóreans). These indeed we may dread as Death...But hither they have not come since my father's days, and then only to raid and catch men and depart...
In greater numbers they come then: two ships or more together, stuffed with men and not goods, and ever one of the accursed ships hath black wings. For that is the Ship of the Dark, and in it they bear away evil booty, captives packed like beasts, the fairest women and children, or young men unblemished, and that is their end.
Because they are in northwest Middle-earth, Eriador, I would expect these particular natives to be white - so Irish seem like a pretty good fit (like Romans occupying celtic Britain, or the English imperialism in Ireland).
There are no red-haired Númenóreans that I know of (Hadorians are generally blond, Beorians and Haledin are dark-haired), so the red hair, short stature and freckles would distinguish them from the Men and Women of Westernesse.
Others suggested it might be Dwarves and Orcs, which I guess is also a possibility.
In terms of the Southeast Asian extras, Easterlings are the only thing that come to mind for me.
(This post was edited by Althoun on Oct 18 2019, 6:41pm)
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