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kathyrote
The Shire
May 3 2008, 1:51am
Post #1 of 18
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Ian Holm as Bilbo
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I went to the first LOTR movie convinced I'd hate it - just sure it couldn't be done and the characters so dear in my mind's eye for so many years would be nothing like I imagined them. Was I ever, way beyond pleasantly surprized. Everyone looked exactly as I'd always imagined them, and Ian Holm was the quintessential Bilbo - face, voice and aura. I hope his return to the role is not too quickly dismissed. Hell, my mom is 89, and not wealthy. She had a little "work" done , just basics she could afford, and looks fabulous - 20 yrs. younger. I'm certain that Ian could be made up to look younger, just as easily as he was aged for the Return of the King. Think of the resources available. The first words out of Gandalf's mouth were "you haven't aged a day". So at his 111 B-day party, he's looking just as he did during the Smaug adventure. It's got to be do able. No matter how well someone reprises a role that was first "nailed" by another actor, I'm always left feeling the loss. **just an aside - I'd love to see Ralph Fiennes as the Woodland Elf king !!
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meltsar
The Shire
May 3 2008, 2:49am
Post #2 of 18
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Agreed about Bilbo! When I first saw 'Fellowship' in the theater for the very first time, I knew that the films would be great in the first ten minutes because of two key performances: Ian McKellan and Ian Holm. Ian Holm simply 'was' Bilbo Baggins!
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
May 3 2008, 4:20am
Post #3 of 18
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<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Apr. 28-May 4 for "Treebeard".
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Mneth
Registered User
May 3 2008, 6:27am
Post #4 of 18
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I do not agree with you here. Ian Holm did a great Bilbo in the triology, but I think it would be a mistake to cast him in The Hobbit. As someone wrote in another thread here, when Gandalf said Bilbo hadn't aged a day, he compared from his previous visit to Hobbiton and not from the Smaug adventure.
Ian Holm is to old to play Bilbo. It will take two or three years (?) to shoot these movies and who knows how long Holm will be around? Fore many years hopefully, but I wonder if the company would risk it?
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Peredhil lover
Valinor
May 3 2008, 7:12am
Post #5 of 18
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Christopher Lee was around the same age when he played Saruman for LotR and is still around to hopefully do it again, so that's not the main problem.
But the Bilbo in 'The Hobbit' was a Hobbit of 50, that is in man years around 35-40, and Ian Holm is twice as old, so it wouldn't look convincing to me, as much as I loved him as Bilbo.
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
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CaerLaw
Registered User
May 3 2008, 8:54pm
Post #7 of 18
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As of this writing, Sir Ian is 76 years old, and while that does make him too old to be Bilbo without alteration(s), IMHO Ian Holm IS Bilbo, and he should be given the right of first refusal. This will be a physically demanding part, no doubt, but those demands could be eliminated through the use of body- and stunt-doubles. "De-aging" him will be a matter of makeup and CGI (as has been seen in the X-Men films). If they can do a complete character such as Gollum--and presumably Smaug will be a combo of CGI and anamatics--how much more would it be to tinker with an actor's face?
The positives far outweigh the negatives. First of all, the three previous movies establish Holm as Bilbo, so continuity could be maintained. Second, we have that scene in the Prologue of "Fellowship" where Bilbo/Holm finds the Ring. This could actually be re-used, substituting only what Bilbo hears from Gollum ("Thief! Baggins!"), which makes it appear that Bilbo doesn't find the Ring until AFTER the riddle game--and that doesn't make any sense! Perhaps instead we would see him reacting to the splashing of Gollum in his boat, or maybe even his muttered, "Bless us and splash us, my preciousss! I guess it's a choice feast; at least a tasty morsel it'd make us, gollum!" And third, Sir Ian has all the acting ability and credentials to carry this film, and carry it he must. Sure, the work is sub-titled, "There and Back Again," but it is "THE HOBBIT"; Bilbo is that Hobbit, and Ian Holm IS Bilbo.
If Sir Ian turns down the role--as he well might--then an actor who is at least similar in appearance and at least in equal as to his acting chops will need to be found. At this point I have no idea who that could be, and if it comes to that, I don't envy Guillermo, Peter and company the chore of finding such a man.
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
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Owain
Tol Eressea
May 3 2008, 11:05pm
Post #8 of 18
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... and thought he was wonderful as Bilbo in LOTR...
I am pulling for James McAvoy. I think he has the dramatic and comedic sensibilities to pull off this role.
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kathyrote
The Shire
May 3 2008, 11:13pm
Post #9 of 18
(884 views)
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Hum - I don't know of him. What movies has he been in?
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Starling
Half-elven
May 3 2008, 11:57pm
Post #10 of 18
(907 views)
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Atonement and the Last King of Scotland.
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fmaximus
Rivendell
May 4 2008, 2:08am
Post #12 of 18
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Holm should come back as Older Bilbo but young Bilbo should be a new actor
It would definately be nice to see Mr Holm involved in some capacity.
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Owain
Tol Eressea
May 4 2008, 2:26am
Post #13 of 18
(866 views)
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The Chronicles of Narnia
Penolope
The Last King of Scotland
Starter for 10
Becoming Jane
Atonement
Wanted
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irodino
Bree
May 4 2008, 11:41am
Post #14 of 18
(848 views)
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It just wouldn't work efficiently enough, would distract the audience, as there is a difference in how a younger and older person behave, act, breathe etc, you can't *fix* it all to make it seamless. The 'suspension of disbelief' won't work if you're constantly reminded (due to imperfection of the effect) its just a movie and the main hero is a 'try-to-look-young' 70+ year old actor, with face and body full of silicon and make-up, and lots of CGI shots to polish. Spielberg and Lucas did wise not to make a movie about a younger Indiana Jones than Harrison Ford really is now, they know the limits of CGI and they know how movie magic works. Not to mention the extra hours of make-up Ian Holm would have to endure. No, I am sure there is somewhere an unknown actor who looks just like young Ian Holm, and thus he is perfect choice. Now let's hope he can also act like Ian... 
"The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that terrible in-between."
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Gothmog The Mighty
The Shire
May 5 2008, 12:35pm
Post #15 of 18
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As much of a shame as it is, to get down to the nitty gritty of realities, it cannot be Ian Holme. Maybe, if bringing these films to the screen had happened pretty much right after the LOTR trilogy then it may have happened, but not now. Age is not just the problem in having a more aged actor having to play a part that is strenuous, energetic and dramatic enough as it is, we have to remember that Ian Holme did have health issues and I am not sure how 'over' them he may be.
It is not only a physically demanding role, but for Ian Holme's style, it would be very draining and exhausting. By that I making reference to what is said on the cast commentary for Fellowship, how he does every scene differently. Fine for a small-ish role and a short-ish shooting time, but in the Hobbit, Bilbo carries the whole film and that kind of acting style would be very draining on any actor, not to mention someone who is older and may or may not still have health issues.
Also, to bring us back to reality, everyone keeps mentioning the scene in X-Men 3 as an example. Let's be realistic here, that is just not going to happen. That one scene done for X-Men was neither cheap nor was it done quickly. It was costly and painstaking. Do we expect they are going to draw this process out for a whole film and possibly parts of the second film? Do you have any idea how much time and money that would cost the production? As successful as the LOTR trilogy was, the studio is not going to issue a blank cheque for this production expecting it to bring home infinate dollars in return, whilst the budget will be big, they will still have to spend it wisely and not go overboard working within the constraints of using this technique, just to keep us fans happy.
(This post was edited by Gothmog The Mighty on May 5 2008, 12:36pm)
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keithf777
The Shire
May 5 2008, 11:11pm
Post #16 of 18
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Stop this silliness! I love Ian Holm, but really...
[In reply to]
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As of this writing, Sir Ian is 76 years old, and while that does make him too old to be Bilbo without alteration(s), IMHO Ian Holm IS Bilbo, and he should be given the right of first refusal. This will be a physically demanding part, no doubt, but those demands could be eliminated through the use of body- and stunt-doubles. "De-aging" him will be a matter of makeup and CGI (as has been seen in the X-Men films). If they can do a complete character such as Gollum--and presumably Smaug will be a combo of CGI and anamatics--how much more would it be to tinker with an actor's face? *snip*
If Sir Ian turns down the role--as he well might--then an actor who is at least similar in appearance and at least in equal as to his acting chops will need to be found. At this point I have no idea who that could be, and if it comes to that, I don't envy Guillermo, Peter and company the chore of finding such a man.
Even if we agreed on that Holm owned the role, the attitude that an actor should have the 'first right of refusal' on a character is silly. The filmmakers have to balance the desire for continuity with the realities of makeup and CGI. As pointed out by others, making a 70+ year old man appear 30ish is a very tall order. And unless they feel they can sell the effect flawlessly then they would be making a big mistake to bring Holm back out of sentiment. There should be absolutely no distraction from the film other than a possible moment or two of 'Holy crap, how did they make him look that young!' Otherwise there is always a good sized pool of British acting talent that can be drawn from. Finding someone with talent who resembles Holm wouldn't likely be a problem. I little bit of makeup could aid the actor's appearance and probably be much more bearable for a young guy than for Holm to wear heavy makeup.
Ian Holm did a great Bilbo. My complaints with the chacter in the movie were that Bilbo came off as a bit too serious overall, and that I hated the CGI monster that flared out in his encounter with Frodo in Rivendell. Holm could have played that scene to great effect without the CGI crap. He's a great actor and didn't need the help. Of course, neither of these problems was the actor's fault, rather what I see as flaws in the director's vision. Minor flaws of course, but flaws nonetheless. But the portrayal was otherwise very nice. I don't feel, however, that it was so good that it couldn't be matched. Bilbo didn't have enough screen time for me to feel that Holm's portrayal was 'definitive.'
Cheers,
Keith
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leo
Rohan
May 6 2008, 9:50am
Post #17 of 18
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I liked how Ian McKellen narrated his way through Stardust, for instance. I reckon Ian Holm could do the same for The Hobbit. And then maybe appear in the movie-that-isn't-a-bridge-movie himself.
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xxxyyy
Rohan
May 6 2008, 10:15am
Post #18 of 18
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I really hope he can do it. He IS Bilbo. No one else can do it.
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