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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Will Jackson ever release a ultimate cut?

Victariongreyjoy
Lorien


Dec 16 2018, 2:35am

Post #1 of 16 (3152 views)
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Will Jackson ever release a ultimate cut? Can't Post

I read and saw both pictures and a snippet of deleted scenes that never made it into the EE. Do you think he will release a ultimate cut one day? Maybe he will add some new short CGI scenes like the Battle of the North, Gil-Galad's death and hobbits fending off a invading orc party, that could have been The Scourge of the Shire? Something like Lucas did with his Star Wars movies.


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Dec 16 2018, 9:24am

Post #2 of 16 (3116 views)
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Hmmm... [In reply to] Can't Post

At one point in time I wanted this more than anything - But now that PJ has gone "Full Lucas" could you imagine what he would do with the films?? Ugh... Unsure


squire
Half-elven


Dec 16 2018, 2:32pm

Post #3 of 16 (3102 views)
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I can't believe that would make a better movie. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Extended Editions have their charms, but they are a bit bloated compared to the trimmer, more dramatically coherent, Theatrical Editions. To go further and make even longer films is very likely the wrong direction to take, just to please fans who see the films more as moving illustrations of the book than as cinematic works of art.

Whenever I hear of a call to see more of the 'deleted scenes' for a 'ultimate cut' of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, I always think that what's really needed is a kind of 'Unfinished Tales' reel, or rather disk. It would feature all - sure, all of it - of the extra footage in the context of being cool to look at but inappropriate for insertion into the feature films. The Appendices of the films would be the kind of style to be followed for these - another super-Appendix, rather than a new edition of the trilogy.

I would also shy away from the very idea that new CGI creations - scenes that Jackson and crew never even wrote - would in any way be helpful for enjoying these movies that were filmed, edited, and released well over a decade ago.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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2ndBreffest
Lorien


Dec 16 2018, 3:28pm

Post #4 of 16 (3084 views)
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Sadly, yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

I can imagine, and the thought of it is truly sickening.


Darkstone
Immortal


Dec 16 2018, 5:29pm

Post #5 of 16 (3079 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

I know there's at least another 23 hours of the Nazgul/Arwen chase scene.

Plus they had five camera coverage on the Council of Elrond scene.

And the second unit had around a hundred takes of the Simbelmynë flower falling.

That's a lot of film. I really don't think I'd care to watch any of it, though.

Sean Astin said they took around 30 takes of Sam and the Watchers, but were never able to make it work. That's something fans would want until they got it, kinda like the Gandalf/WiKi scene.

I would like to see the Aragorn/Arwen and Faramir/Eowyn weddings, though.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”

(This post was edited by Darkstone on Dec 16 2018, 5:39pm)


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan

Dec 16 2018, 5:56pm

Post #6 of 16 (3068 views)
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are you kidding? about the 23 hours? [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't like to see that on film, but it would be fun to watch. I'd like to see Sam and the Watchers, too, and Gandalf/WiKi - am I alone in wanting to see that? I'm not trying to ruin any of your viewing experience, since a lot of you seem to find the idea repellent; but I want to see that myself.

"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."


Darkstone
Immortal


Dec 16 2018, 6:33pm

Post #7 of 16 (3057 views)
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Nope. [In reply to] Can't Post

Producer Barrie M. Osborne shot the chase with the second unit. Jackson was supposed to go through it and put it together but never had time. So Osborne and Co-producer Rick Porras finally had to go through it and put it together. They said it was grueling monotonous work.

Before the ROTK-EE everyone was hyped about the Gandalf WiKi confrontation but most were disappointed when they finally saw it. Turns out there's reasons other than just time constraints that Jackson cut out scenes.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”


Chen G.
Rohan

Dec 16 2018, 6:54pm

Post #8 of 16 (3052 views)
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I like the extended cut better [In reply to] Can't Post

and not because its just "more of the movie" and certainly not because its "more of the book". To me, the theatrical cut is much more the 90s action film, with so many character moments and pieces of drama trimmed in favor of action.

That, of course, isn't to say that I'm against action: its one of the best aspects of these films. But I do like so many of the character moments: Aragorn's backstory, Sam beholding the star over the ashen skies of Mordor, Merry's simple courage - its great stuff.

Its not just individual highlights, either. With the editing on each film becoming more frenetic, I often find the extended cut, with which Jackson had more time to marinate, the better edited. A good example is the way the charge of the Rohirrim is intercut with the Denethor storyline: much better in the extended cut.

Another advantage of the extended cut is that each of the first two came out as the edit of the next film was taking shape, so Jackson could adjust it to build into the next film all the more seamlessly, and with the third film he could edit it with the perspective of the whole thing, creating a true "cap" to the trilogy.

The extended cuts are hardly an assembly reel - they're craftily edited, with just as much stuff still left on the cutting room floor as was re-inserted into the film. What they are is curated to the small-screen, where the experience is more comfortable and not as overbearing, and therefore the pacing requirements are completely different.

And as much as we love to criticise contemporary cinema as overlong and bloated, I personally find it much more problematic when a film is breathless or when a filmmaker lacks patience or confidencne in his film, not letting the camera linger enough to allow us to drink-in the images he (or she) composed so well, or not letting a theme or tone sink it as fully as it can.

Also, when you have a films that contains the kind of tragic overtures that The Lord of the Rings or the Quest of Erebor (i.e. The Hobbit) or even King Kong has, it can be conducive for the audience to be left worn-down at the end of it. One of my favorite things about the pacing of Return of the King is that, by the time Frodo and Sam limp up the slopes of Mount Doom, you the audience feel the weight of their fatigue, having covered so much ground with them.

At the end of the day, I just don't see how the extended cut of The Lord of the Rings is "bloated" whereas - say - the roadshow cuts of Lawrence of Arabia, Ben Hur or Once Upon a Time in America is a masterpiece. I think the length, particularly of Return of the King, makes them feel kind of avant-garde and helps them stand apart from other "epic" blockbusters.

As for adding more stuff to them, I don't think its conducive, with the exception of things that Jackson will at someday find he needs to weave the two halves of his sextet together. At any rate, we're not talking anything that should translate into a major change in running-time.


(This post was edited by Chen G. on Dec 16 2018, 7:02pm)


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan

Dec 16 2018, 7:02pm

Post #9 of 16 (3041 views)
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My thoughts exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."


2ndBreffest
Lorien


Dec 16 2018, 7:12pm

Post #10 of 16 (3036 views)
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wow [In reply to] Can't Post

A 23 hour action scene...that's a bit excessive, even for PJ!


Chen G.
Rohan

Dec 16 2018, 7:22pm

Post #11 of 16 (3034 views)
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You do understand the point of dailies, do you? [In reply to] Can't Post

The scene was never going to be longer than it is: the quoted length is simply the result of the number of takes, and the various camera angles needed. That's the nature of dailies and part and parcel to the craft of filmmaking.

The Battle of Stirling on Braveheart, at less than twenty minutes long, had six weeks worth of dailies...

It should be said, Jackson is fond of multiple takes: as many of 30 or 40. Its part of why digital cameras really work for his style, as they do for David Fincher (another director notorious for his multiple takes). As a result, his actors' performances are never too off-key, and his camerawork is always on-cue.


(This post was edited by Chen G. on Dec 16 2018, 7:24pm)


2ndBreffest
Lorien


Dec 16 2018, 7:32pm

Post #12 of 16 (3028 views)
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well... [In reply to] Can't Post

you know PJ really is fond of his action sequences. I hear tell that he originally wanted a 7 hour run time for his Hobbit barrel scene, but was shot down by WB who feared lawsuits from theater goers who would inevitably receive bedsores from sitting in their seats for such an extended period of time.


squire
Half-elven


Dec 16 2018, 10:41pm

Post #13 of 16 (2989 views)
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All good points [In reply to] Can't Post

My experience of the Extended Editions started with watching the first two during Trilogy Tuesday, in a movie theater. I felt quite wrung out by the running times. Ditto for the one or two times I've watched them at home.

I like your point about how the EEs have more time for character scenes, since the TEs had their "drama trimmed in favor of action". I don't remember the two versions well enough to respond to the critique as I'd like. My first reaction just now was, well, I wish the director had chosen less action in the TEs in the first place then, so we could have had more character and development in decently-timed films.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Mari D.
Rivendell


Dec 17 2018, 8:52pm

Post #14 of 16 (2922 views)
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'd like to watch the watchers :-) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I wouldn't like to see that on film, but it would be fun to watch. I'd like to see Sam and the Watchers, too, and Gandalf/WiKi - am I alone in wanting to see that?


I would like to see the scene with Sam and the two statues as well. I'd personally prefer it on a "deleted scenes" disc, rather than within a completely new cut of the movies ... I already own the Extended DVDs... wouldn't want to buy them again for only a few small additions ... would rather buy a single extra disc Smile


(This post was edited by Mari D. on Dec 17 2018, 8:53pm)


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan

Dec 17 2018, 9:01pm

Post #15 of 16 (2915 views)
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Haha, true [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."


Victariongreyjoy
Lorien


Dec 17 2018, 9:04pm

Post #16 of 16 (2914 views)
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More footages of Gandalf and the Witch King? [In reply to] Can't Post

Since you want to see more of Gandalf\Wiki, was it more scenes filmed beween them? And was what it about?

 
 

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