Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Great Interview with GDT
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next page Last page  View All

DiveTwin
Rohan


Apr 29 2008, 5:38pm

Post #51 of 135 (1447 views)
Shortcut
Well Said! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
If there's one thing that never ceases to surprise me about this whole success/failure thing, it's the ability that some people have to dislike something that they have not yet watched or read or seen. I mean, I know there are certain movies in relation to which certain decisions are taken during pre-production that are obviously not well aimed (Oliver Stone's ridiculously insulting Alexander comes to my mind now), but you still need to wait, purchase your ticket, watch the movie and then you can finally bash and talk all you want.

In this particular case, all the elements are in place for this to be a truly great movie. We basically got everything we want so far. We signed every petition for Peter to be involved with the movies and he is. We voted in every poll for who should be the director if Peter wouldn't want to do it, and the filmmaker who got the most votes got the job. We basically "demanded" that all the actors, as well as Howard Shore, Alan Lee and John Howe be involved in the movies, and we got that too. At least to me, this couldn't be a better situation.

And to those who believe that Guillermo del Toro is doing this for the money, who cares?, he is one of the best filmmakers in the world right now and honest and generous enough to dedicate whatever spare time I’m sure he doesn’t have to answer to some us, who spend most of our spare time being negative about pretty much everything.

And since I cannot directly address him due to that restriction in the Main Index, let me say that I wish the director of the Hobbit the best luck in the world and that I’m confident that he will not only pull it off but urge us to start another petition begging Christopher Tolkien to release the movie rights for the Silmarillion or The Children of Hurin to Wingnut Films or Guillermo’s production company. And let us not pay attention to Dick Dastardly-like comments, he never won a single race. Wink




Ditto. Was going to write something akin to this - but now that you've written it, there's no need. If GDT, PJ and Fran approach this with the respect shown in LOTR (including changes that were made) then I'm all for it.

As for the magic thoughts, I felt PJ handled that well in LOTR and look for the same in "The Hobbit". I'm always saw understood Gandalf as an immensely powerful figure who shows that power and wisdom by choosing not to reveal it very often - as opposed to using it as a solution to all or many problems. I'm with PJ on that - better matched for his "grounded in reality" philosophy that was the key (to me) for LOTR being the acclaimed movie that it is. That said, I think when it's used in the story of "The Hobbit", it generally falls into that category.


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Apr 29 2008, 7:17pm

Post #52 of 135 (1450 views)
Shortcut
True point [In reply to] Can't Post

I have always found literary convention to be a little snobbish. Perhaps Tolkien was an amateur according to this convention, as is J.K. Rowling, as was Jules Verne or Isaac Asimov.

However no one has sold more books than J.K. Rowling and not many scholarly authors of the 19th century enjoy the popularity Verne still does today.

What made these authors what they are is not their perfection in literary convention, it was that their stories and their worlds were compelling and relatable.

Yes! the touched the deepest of people's feelings, and not just the syllable counting structure comparing minds of a few members of the academia. Which of the two is more important... I'll let you decide, but I think you get my personal view of it.

Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!

Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor


Apr 29 2008, 7:19pm

Post #53 of 135 (1497 views)
Shortcut
Shippey Says Tolkien Was an Amateur [In reply to] Can't Post

In one of the documentaries on the TTT EE dvd, Tom Shippey said that Tolkien was an "amateur" writer and that was why he was able to get away with some of the things that he did, that a professional novelist of his day never would have been able to do.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Apr 29 2008, 7:37pm

Post #54 of 135 (1500 views)
Shortcut
Some people here want Bard in the film [In reply to] Can't Post

...to be introduced in a more professional manner than Tolkien managed it. Are they underestimating the compelling nature of Tolkien's decision?

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Apr. 28-May 4 for "Treebeard".


merklynn
Lorien


Apr 29 2008, 7:46pm

Post #55 of 135 (1466 views)
Shortcut
Bard's introduction... [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope I'm not included in the "some people" comment. I don't see anything wrong with small embellishments if they have a good justification, but I lean towards the books obviously. Just wondering if my "justification" post was lumping me into some category I was not aware of.

I think its fun to speculate as a fan, the reasoning as to why certain plot devices play as they do... and perhaps some plot contrivances are indeed deliberate to have more impact upon their sudden appearance.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Apr 29 2008, 7:58pm

Post #56 of 135 (1404 views)
Shortcut
PJ said something similar. [In reply to] Can't Post

When the making of the three LOTR films was announced, he said that he wasn't making the definitive Lord of the Rings film, but *his* Lord of the Rings film - which probably won't fit with what some fans want to see, but he can only make the film that appeals to him and he hoped others would like it too.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 29 2008, 8:23pm

Post #57 of 135 (1423 views)
Shortcut
Are Homer and Virgil amateurs? [In reply to] Can't Post

So should Wiglaf and Hygelac have been introduced earlier in Beowulf?

Or Cassandra or Alcimedon in the Iliad?

How about Pallas and Evander in the Aeneid?

Or did they get introduced right when it was time for them to be introduced?

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



(This post was edited by Darkstone on Apr 29 2008, 8:24pm)


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Apr 29 2008, 8:23pm

Post #58 of 135 (1387 views)
Shortcut
Not at all! [In reply to] Can't Post

I was thinking of no one in particular. Entmaiden's remark, that among the flaws for which critics have termed Tolkien's writing "unprofessional" is the unanticipated introduction of Bard, merely made me remember earlier discussions here about how to film The Hobbit, possibly "fixing" problems with the text as Tolkien wrote it. One idea that was floated was to provide some backstory concerning Lake Town, so that Bard, who will kill the dragon, is not introduced so late in the story. That is to say: some fans of Tolkien seem to agree with the critics that Entmaiden was dismissing. I disagree about Bard, because I think that Smaug's death, though necessary, is secondary in importance to Bilbo's story: the two climactic scenes in The Hobbit are Bilbo's conversation with Smaug (in which he holds his own and learns the dragon's secret) and his conversation with Bard (in which he delivers the Arkenstone).

But can the film of The Hobbit make two conversations feel like climaxes?

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Apr. 28-May 4 for "Treebeard".


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Apr 29 2008, 8:31pm

Post #59 of 135 (1499 views)
Shortcut
Gaiman, Avary, and Zemeckis apparently thought so. [In reply to] Can't Post

About Beowulf, I mean: in the recent film, Wiglaf is there right from the start. (Hygelac never makes an appearance).

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Apr. 28-May 4 for "Treebeard".


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Apr 29 2008, 8:33pm

Post #60 of 135 (1395 views)
Shortcut
But... [In reply to] Can't Post

Homer and Virgil were mostly working with myths and stories that had been told countless times before them. Their audiences were already familiar with the characters and their various roles in the stories. Isn't it different for an original work with an audience coming to it fresh without any preconceived notions about the story?

My LiveJournal
My Costuming Site
Screencap of the Day Schedule for April

See my Photos from Japan!!


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Apr 29 2008, 8:41pm

Post #61 of 135 (1480 views)
Shortcut
I agree that... [In reply to] Can't Post

If Tolkien introduced him at that time, it was because he wanted him to appear until that moment. I agree as well, that is bound to change in the movie... they are likely to introduce that kind of character, if not earlier in a "fitter" (if one can use the term) way.

What I do not agree is that Smaug's death is secondary. I have been reading for the past several days that this is Bilbo's story and that the most important thing is his awakening to a broader world. While I cannot deny that, I think Thorin's story has been underestimated. This story is twofolded... it's Bilbo's and Thorin's story. They both work because of the other one. No one of the two could have had the same impact by itself.

Smaug's death is pivotal in a moment in the book where Bilbo has gone slighlty to the background, in a time where old rivalries of Middle Earth reappear.

In a nutshell, what I believe is that an overemphasis on Bilbo, while forgetting that he is immersed in Thorin's quest against the dragon, which is the main plot (perhaps not main theme, though) would hurt the story.

Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!

Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!


merklynn
Lorien


Apr 29 2008, 8:42pm

Post #62 of 135 (1456 views)
Shortcut
Diddling [In reply to] Can't Post

N.E. Brigand wrote:

Quote

But can the film of The Hobbit make two conversations feel like climaxes?



Yes, that is a good question, and we both know the answer as Hollywood sees it is a "no". But Those scenes should still be there and I believe will be there, just with the Battle of the Five Armies to fill the now obligatory battle sequence for this genre. I hope audiences don't tire of this before The Hobbit comes out, as at least Tolkien's works predate and inspired most of the pale imitations that followed in modern fantasy literature.

The Hobbit is certainly Bilbo's story and therefore the real climax are those two conversations you point to.

The diddling with Faramir's role in TTT ad ROTK is an example of the fact that the movie versions will not be afraid to make changes such as one where Bard's role and importance is upped... but frankly, this is not really a book that stars any humans, its a Maia, a hobbit, and a group of dwarves, with a few guest stars along the way including Gollum. Bard should not interfere with the character development time that Tolkien's "stars" deserve.



(This post was edited by merklynn on Apr 29 2008, 8:44pm)


Empedocles
Rivendell


Apr 29 2008, 8:48pm

Post #63 of 135 (1406 views)
Shortcut
Expansion [In reply to] Can't Post

Yep, I also believe that Lake Town and the character of Bard should be expanded. The lack of anticipatory introduction of Bard may be ok in the book but I don't believe it'll work on the screen. Maybe they can work a little bit on the politics of Lake Town and Bard/Master antagonist relationship regarding the administration of the city (although when you talk of politics and administration, it gets a little bit boring). I mean, killing a dragon is as climatic as you can probably get in a movie, and I don't believe they will go for the idea of a total unknown killing Smaug. And, really, I prefer that the role be expanded and not that they get Legolas to magically appear in Lake Town with a black arrow.

Guillermo!! Give us back Glorfindel!!!


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 29 2008, 8:52pm

Post #64 of 135 (1458 views)
Shortcut
They also thought Angelina Jolie in nothing but stilettos and a tail was a great idea. [In reply to] Can't Post

Which of course it was, but it sure ain't Beowulf!

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



merklynn
Lorien


Apr 29 2008, 8:53pm

Post #65 of 135 (1427 views)
Shortcut
A bit of nonsense... [In reply to] Can't Post

I know.... instead of Bard shooting the arrow that kills Smaug, why not just use Arwen... someone who is already famaliar to today's audience. Or better yet, the ultimate Elf, Glorfindel....

Yes, I'm being siilly.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Apr 29 2008, 8:57pm

Post #66 of 135 (1465 views)
Shortcut
"Angelina Jolie is doing philology naked!" [In reply to] Can't Post

From an Anglo-Saxonist's review of the film.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Apr. 28-May 4 for "Treebeard".


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 29 2008, 9:03pm

Post #67 of 135 (1408 views)
Shortcut
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

Homer and Virgil were mostly working with myths and stories that had been told countless times before them. Their audiences were already familiar with the characters and their various roles in the stories.

That's Tolkien's conceit of the world of Middle-earth. It's supposed to feel like these are indeed old tales told countless times before, and that Middle-earth is a vast world with many other stories behind it.

Yes, The Hobbit storyline can be changed to make it more modern, just like Jackson and Co. did with LOTR. But is it necessary? And would it still be Tolkien?

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Elven
Valinor


Apr 29 2008, 9:03pm

Post #68 of 135 (1507 views)
Shortcut
Judgement is filtered through the eye of the beholder ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi merklynn

Quote
Directing is at the end of the day, a profession as well as an art. The risks are lessened when you have a professional at the helm who cares about the subject matter. I feel that we have that. It was GDT's posts here and his words elsewhere in the last few months that warmed me to him and as director, something I was not sure about at first.

Success can be more easily measured in other mediums, but when professional art is involved the method of defining success becomes highly philosophical. I don't think there is a single measure of success of failure for something like a film because there is no overall scale on which to judge it. There is no single measure in this scenario to judge the success or failure of GDT's Hobbit movies, unless how it is being judged is narrowed down. So the whole thing ends up being like many philosophical arguments/discussion, ultimately pointless.

History has proven me wrong many a time, but I am excited about The Hobbit film, and especially the sprequel, and I think they will be good. We will all continue to hope privately or openly for the cast or plot ideas we think are needed, but I think a lot of us will be in for a treat.




and highly philosophical it can be indeed - there are many schools of thought about this ... but I just wanted to say, on the measurement of success and failure, and at the end of all things ...

that Judgement is a set of scales – win or lose, success or failure, they relate to Justice in some form – it is this personal process of ‘justification’ which enables new choices – if you cannot justify something to yourself, let alone to others, if it doesn’t feel ‘right’ in your gut, then the choice is less often one which is self determined. It means you have followed someone else’s choices, someone else path, be convinced by someone else’s justified reasoning - and then how can you believe in your own success or even your own failure? How can you claim responsibility for your own achievements?
Success or failure is only measured when perceived through eyes that intended on Judging. And usually that judgement is determined by how ‘it’ (name a source) made a person feel – and those feelings are an assumption and a conclusion filtered through an maze of personal beliefs - and it will be experienced as an emotional reaction – and the assessment will come through as a Judgemental response related to the source. It is individual.
There’s no rule that says you can’t be or have a ‘successful failure’ either. Judgement and assessment are evolving and flexible never concrete or stationary from one day to the next – it a tip of the scales – an inhale an exhale - and it can be applied to success or failure, and that’s where opinions change.
One way to level the scales comes from being unconditional – and compassionate – they together temper the critical mind and allow expansion and new creative impulses to flow unhindered and unbridled.
But, If you are told enough that you are a failure by others, without assessing yourself first, or if you are told you are a success, without your own critical analysis, not only will you believe either, but so will others. It’s a contagious way of thinking. Better to have your own actuality about your own success or failure, than to have someone’s else definition of it thrust upon you.

When you follow your own heart, you trust your instincts and never veer from your path, you make your own road and you pave it – then regardless if you end up in the valley amongst the thorns and thickets, or on the Mountain top looking beyond the horizon – you can claim it as your own – and no one can take that from you.

At that point, no one else’s opinion matters – no one else’s opinion is necessary.

And maybe after the Hobbit – Guillermo will retreat from explaining why he makes the choices he does – as I see it, there is a lot of explaining going on that I feel which is unnecessarily repetitive.
It’s our turn to trust him, and then justify our responses.

Cheers Elven x



Were off to Hobbiton finally!

Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!



Empedocles
Rivendell


Apr 29 2008, 9:04pm

Post #69 of 135 (1460 views)
Shortcut
More nonsense [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, as my quote hereinbelow clearly shows, I wouldn't mind Glorfindel showing up, at all. I was so dissapointed that he didn't appear in Fellowship, that I wouldn't mind if he gets to escort the dwarves to the Lonely Mountain. Maybe he can do it together with Prince Imrahil and have a trilogy-unjustly-severed-characters reunion.

Of course, I'm being silly too.

Guillermo!! Give us back Glorfindel!!!

(This post was edited by Empedocles on Apr 29 2008, 9:06pm)


L. Ron Halfelven
Grey Havens


Apr 29 2008, 9:17pm

Post #70 of 135 (1444 views)
Shortcut
Every guy in the theater said "Hwæt!"/ [In reply to] Can't Post

 




Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 29 2008, 9:22pm

Post #71 of 135 (1507 views)
Shortcut
So you think Angelina Jolie as Smaug? [In reply to] Can't Post

Only this time in nothing but a jeweled corset and bat wings?

This could work....

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



(This post was edited by Darkstone on Apr 29 2008, 9:26pm)


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Apr 29 2008, 9:28pm

Post #72 of 135 (1459 views)
Shortcut
"In a hole in a mountain there lived a dwarf?" [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin is perhaps the most important secondary character in the story, but there's a reason the story starts and ends at Bag End.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Apr. 28-May 4 for "Treebeard".


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Apr 29 2008, 9:34pm

Post #73 of 135 (1427 views)
Shortcut
"obligatory battle sequence" [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I hope it doesn't feel that way.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Apr. 28-May 4 for "Treebeard".


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Apr 29 2008, 9:36pm

Post #74 of 135 (1423 views)
Shortcut
Depends on the objective [In reply to] Can't Post

which goes back to the purist/heretic argument. If the objective of the film is to tell a story that brings Tolkien's characters to a general audience, then the story has to be "modernised". If the goal is to stick as close to Tolkien, then the best way to make the film is to have Sir Ian McKellen stand in front of a rendering of Bilbo's map and read The Hobbit aloud.

Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.


NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 29 2008, 9:37pm

Post #75 of 135 (1451 views)
Shortcut
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

In FOTR Jackson and Co. tried splitting the story between Aragorn and Frodo, but they said they just couldn't make it work. They said once they realized it was just Frodo's story it all just clicked right into place.

The Hobbit is Bilbo's story.

(But since most of what we know of Thorin and Co. is from the appendices, maybe the second film could be Thorin's story.)

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”


First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.