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Victariongreyjoy
Nargothrond
Nov 5 2017, 12:38pm
Post #51 of 210
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I would be very disappointed, if such a series had a "production design on par with early seasons of History Channel’s Vikings or Netflix’s The Last Kingdom". These shows were rightfully mocked by guys like Matt Easton and Lindybeige on youtube. I also think that GoT is vastly overrated, often having really bad looking designs for at least of its armor, helmets and weapons. Furthermore, I hope that a LotR series won't try to emulate the sensationalist character that Got has, which Tolkien would surely not enjoy.
I have to disagree on that. I think they look very cinematic level. The Lannisters armor, The Mountain's armor\helmet and The Tyrells look like something Gondor soldiers could have used. And I don't think it would be gritty as GOT. It's two different universe, and this show would probably me more like in the books or PJ tone.
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Kangi Ska
Gondolin
Nov 5 2017, 1:34pm
Post #52 of 210
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I doubt that Peter Jackson will be involved.
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Weta might get in on effects work but Peter probably would not be interested. He has other priorities. Maybe Paul McCartney could play Theoden (To old for Frodo now.) Ringo could be Bandobras Took.
As to the honor-ability of the players toward Tolkien's source material that would depend on the writers, producers, director and the money. But that is a way out from now. Somebody must have a pitch. I would pay to see what that is. KS
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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No One in Particular
Menegroth
Nov 5 2017, 2:54pm
Post #53 of 210
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I would prefer the casting of unknowns or relative unknows, thus avoiding the whole "we paid for so-and-so big name, now we're gonna have 'em in every scene whether they belong there or not!"
While you live, shine
Have no grief at all
Life exists only for a short while
And time demands an end.
Seikilos Epitaph
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Nov 5 2017, 3:03pm
Post #54 of 210
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I would prefer the casting of unknowns or relative unknows, thus avoiding the whole "we paid for so-and-so big name, now we're gonna have 'em in every scene whether they belong there or not!"
True. If such a show is successful than the unknowns/little-knowns will become big names--if they're well-chosen!
"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 5 2017, 3:05pm)
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SirDennisC
Gondolin
Nov 5 2017, 5:55pm
Post #55 of 210
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Not sure why production design for those shows should have been mocked. Regardless, my point remains that a more rustic/less expensive looking production would be my preference for a series based in M-e. As for GoT I can’t comment as I stopped watching it years ago when they (true to plot apparently) killed off Boromir ;) I am aware, however, that they’re into the penultimate season of the series.
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Victariongreyjoy
Nargothrond
Nov 5 2017, 7:19pm
Post #56 of 210
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I haven't watched Last Kingdom or Vikings, so I can't comment on them. But GOT is probably the best thing ever happened after LOTR, and the scale and scope of it are movie quality. Battle of Bastards, Hardhome and Blackwater Bay proves it's possible to have a high quality Middle Earth tv show.
In terms of custom designs, not everybody wears armor in Middle Earth. So that put cost down a lot. The orcs doesn't need full metal plates unless there is a big major battle.
(This post was edited by Victariongreyjoy on Nov 5 2017, 7:24pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Nov 5 2017, 7:50pm
Post #57 of 210
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In terms of custom designs, not everybody wears armor in Middle Earth. So that put cost down a lot. The orcs doesn't need full metal plates unless there is a big major battle.
Well, I wouldn't expect anyone in Middle-earth to be wearing full-metal armor. Going by Tolkien's legendarium, no one had developed it--not even the Dwarves.
"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock
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Victariongreyjoy
Nargothrond
Nov 5 2017, 8:00pm
Post #58 of 210
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That means most of the money can go to set designs and CGI. I have feeling Amazon will go through with this. They will play it safe by involving the Tolkien families in producing the show. Like the dreadful Shannara Chronicles, where Terry Brooks is heavily involved.
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Fichtenbrenner
Nevrast
Nov 5 2017, 8:12pm
Post #59 of 210
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In terms of custom designs, not everybody wears armor in Middle Earth. So that put cost down a lot. The orcs doesn't need full metal plates unless there is a big major battle. Well, I wouldn't expect anyone in Middle-earth to be wearing full-metal armor. Going by Tolkien's legendarium, no one had developed it--not even the Dwarves.
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Kangi Ska
Gondolin
Nov 5 2017, 8:25pm
Post #60 of 210
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From the Tolkien artist Ted Nasmith my friend
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"My friend Mehdi Ahmadi linked this article announcing Amazon's possible interest in creating a TV adaptation of LotR. Later that day my friend author Alison Baird emailed her reaction to the news, saying she'd wondered why LotR was suddenly trending on Twitter. She'd recently reread the LotR Appendices, remarking that a new production might well include material from the considerable 1st and 2nd Age accounts described there.
We exchanged opinions on the question, including whether the selling of TV rights to LotR could potentially open the door, via the Appendices, to, as she suggested, a serialized epic not on LotR, necessarily, but on The Fall of Numenor. To quote her, "Just think of it: we could see Numenor at its height! Ar-Pharazon the Golden! The fleet sailing to challenge Valinor, and the Atlantis-like fall of the island. And they could work in the forging of the Rings at the beginning, and the Last Alliance with Gil-galad at the end which leads directly to LOTR."
"And the characters! We'd get to know Elendil and his sons in Numenor, then follow them as they fled to Middle-earth and built their cities and fought against Sauron. We would also see a very different version of Sauron: not the scary armoured demon or the fiery eyeball, but Annatar the Deceiver who "seemed fair and wise". I always saw him as symbolizing the dangers of charismatic demagogues. A good lesson for our celebrity-obsessed times, I think..."
I tend to feel that writers of such fantasy adaptations can often do more with less, and the Numenorean epic is rich with potential for dark intrigue and breathtaking spectacle, all of it portending the eventual realms that are the backdrop of LotR.
And yes, such a production could be a massive disaster that sinks into the sea faster than Mt. Meneltarma under the Great Wave, but it could also be a major achievement."
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Victariongreyjoy
Nargothrond
Nov 5 2017, 8:40pm
Post #61 of 210
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The idea of making a series of Numenor is better than adapting anything from the first age. Numenor has been mentioned several times in the movies, so it's logical that they continue something the wide audience are aware of. But we also need some major battles than just dramatic drama all the time. Like what GOT has every season.
I was thinking the war of the elves could be the one of them.
I've posted a thread about what kind of forces Sauron used during the second age, who his commander was etc. This is a great oppertunity to take some small liberty to flesh out these things.
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Victariongreyjoy
Nargothrond
Nov 5 2017, 10:48pm
Post #62 of 210
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The tone should be like Shadow of Mordor game
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I think a tone like the games are suitable for a LOTR tv show.
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squire
Gondolin
Nov 5 2017, 11:15pm
Post #63 of 210
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"We need some battles" even though Tolkien didn't
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The whole point of the Numenor epic is that you don't need battles to tell a gripping story of empire, hubris, and a tragic Fall. Both the beginning of the Downfall, the arrival of Numenor's fleet in Middle-earth, so strong that the Enemy surrendered without fighting, and the end, the arrival of Numenor's fleet in Valinor, so strong the Powers destroyed and remade the world rather than wage a war in heaven itself, are object-lessons in the uselessness of warfare at a fundamentally moral decision point.
I know that many fans of the Tolkien films, at least, believe that it ain't Tolkien if it doesn't have a gigantic set-piece epic battle. But to demand "some major battles" in a Tolkien story that doesn't have any, because battles are a key element of modern-day fantasy films, is to confuse genre with its originator.
If I thought the producers of a Tolkien TV series were genuinely interested in what Tolkien wrote, I'd expect a complexly written and deeply characterized series of mini-dramas, focusing on themes of power, death, morality, art, and poetry. War and combat has a place, but it's a relatively small one, being more background atmosphere in an medieval-style world than a major vehicle for the drama. But, especially given the responses I'm already seeing to this still-mysterious news about Amazon's pivot into a large-scale GOT-style fantasy series, I suspect the producers haven't the slightest interest in adapting Tolkien's unique vision to a modern serial production. Rather I'd guess they are looking to recapture the audience that Peter Jackson built for an updated, bloodier, sexier, and considerably cruder 'version' of Tolkien's art that kind of looks, sounds, and feels like all the others.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
 = Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Nov 5 2017, 11:43pm
Post #64 of 210
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That means most of the money can go to set designs and CGI. I have feeling Amazon will go through with this. They will play it safe by involving the Tolkien families in producing the show. Like the dreadful Shannara Chronicles, where Terry Brooks is heavily involved.
I'm not sure that producing chain mail and the like is an less expensive or time-consuming than producing plate armor. And it seems likely that very few members of the Tolkien family would want to be involved. Maybe Royd Tolkien, who was a supporter of the films.
"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Nov 5 2017, 11:45pm
Post #65 of 210
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That actually means no full-plate armor like in the 1400s, so the soldiers would have looked more like knights of the 1200s with long mail shirts.
Essentially correct. Although with multiple cultures and races involved there is certainly room for some variety.
"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Nov 5 2017, 11:52pm
Post #66 of 210
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Yes, a dramatic presentation of Sauron's war with the Elves of the Second Age and the rise and fall of Númenor has a great deal of potential. I don't see much hope that a long-form adaptation of that story would be attempted unless it is a follow-up to a television version of the main story of The Lord of the Rings. It's an unknown quantity that would present vast challenges. Few studios have enough vision to invest in such a risky venture.
Such a project might benefit greatly from being able to utilize the Akallabeth, Tolkien's chronicle of the downfall of Númenor in The Silmarillion, but I don't see much hope of that happening.
"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 5 2017, 11:59pm)
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Victariongreyjoy
Nargothrond
Nov 6 2017, 12:04am
Post #67 of 210
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I think by making a young Strider show first is important for connecting to the Numenor stuff. Just to introduce Numenor to the audience and they get to know what's it about.
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Glaurung63
Menegroth
Nov 6 2017, 12:20am
Post #68 of 210
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Bombadil, Goldberry, Old Man Willow need at least TWO HOURS....
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Or they've lost me. Joking but serious as well. If this is a LOTR series, will it be more character driven or special effects...I fear lots of cgi. But cgi has gotten amazingly better. Will they copy PJ and tell the ring story?
I am thinking unknown actors for the roles....but I can't imagine any actor wanting to take on any of the roles! "Oh, he is good, but he ain't Ian/Viggo/Elijah". "She is good but she's no Miranda/Cate/Liv". But some won't care and see the challenge. And surprise us!
I remain cautiously optimistic....
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Dor-Lomin
Nov 6 2017, 12:23am
Post #69 of 210
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The more I think about this, the more angry it makes me.
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The fact that this is being done because an executive wants his own "Game of Thrones" to compete with HBO immediately sets things off on the wrong foot.
Not least because it shows an insane lack of imagination. Thrones was no doubt greenlit because of the proven popularity of fantasy on film that PJ's The Lord of the Rings established. But Game of Thrones was its own thing - unquestionably different from LotR in tone and content. It was in many ways a cinematic successor to Rings, but wholly unique.
And what's Amazon's answer to Thrones? By going back to LotR, instead of taking a look at the vast wealth of fantasy stories that are ripe for adaptation.
Look at what Starz did. They got a fantasy/historical epic fantasy series of their own, but went in a wildly different direction from GoT. They adapted Diana Gabaldon's Outlander novels into a stunning series from Battlestar Galactica's showrunner Ronald D. Moore. It's not the ratings getter that GoT is for HBO, but it's their flagship show nonetheless.
I've seen many comments across the internet saying the timing here is perfect, because GoT will be ending soon. But, of course, in reality, it won't be long after its conclusion that one or more of HBO's Thrones spin-off shows launches. Granted, that's not the most original idea either (HBO doesn't want to let their golden goose go), but at least that series will have the advantage of being a new story, with new characters, which will keep audiences guessing week to week. Amazon's Rings series, meanwhile, will be retreading narrative ground that the audience is already very familiar with. Unless, of course, they veer wildly off-book - which I'm sure would thrill Tolkien fans everywhere.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Nov 6 2017, 12:33am)
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duats
Hithlum
Nov 6 2017, 12:53am
Post #70 of 210
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I think that's the route they'll have to go.
Truth be told, the only "name" I can think of to play Gandalf after Ian McKellen is Derek Jacobi, and he's pushing eighty years old.
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Lissuin
Doriath
Nov 6 2017, 2:07am
Post #71 of 210
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I am so afraid you might be right, Squire.
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Let's say I'm more hopeful than optimistic that I would like what these folks would want to produce.
If I thought the producers of a Tolkien TV series were genuinely interested in what Tolkien wrote, I'd expect a complexly written and deeply characterized series of mini-dramas, focusing on themes of power, death, morality, art, and poetry. Indeed.
There were several years between my first reading of The Hobbit and my second, and in that time I had completely forgotten that there was a battle of multiple armies at the end. Tolkien includes battles because of the tragic, heroic part they play in the struggle he chronicles at the end of the Third Age, but they take up relatively few pages and for the most part he leaves the details to the reader's imagination. After his personal experience of war, that isn't surprising.
As much as I enjoy the films we now have, it's usual for me to fast forward during the battles and other grisly slaughter. I stopped reading A Song of Fire and Ice at book two and have never seen the tv series. Would a series set in any age of Middle-earth now have to have sex and violence equal to or amped up even higher than GOT to be commercially successful? Yuck, IMHO.
... updated, bloodier, sexier, and considerably cruder 'version' of Tolkien's art that kind of looks, sounds, and feels like all the others.
Hopeful (a fool's hope?) but not optimistic - and this from a generally cockeyed optimist. I'll hold onto hope for some sort of eucatastrophe here if anything does come of the rumour. Maybe the universe can pull it off.
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Kangi Ska
Gondolin
Nov 6 2017, 3:03am
Post #72 of 210
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is not about battles. There are battles and skirmishes but Lord of the Rings is about people.KS
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Bombadil
Gondolin
Nov 6 2017, 4:48am
Post #73 of 210
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When trying to engage people over these many years
bom has tried many ways to interest people
in his Hobby known as the
Third Age of this World.
Generations come
Generations go
but once
Tolkien
Take Hold
he Never letzzz go.
Don't Cha Know?
No time left to slowly reflect how just how much
OUR Professor has affected our World since
1933 AD..SoOo..
just sit back & let it FLOW &
Ripple widely down throughout The Rivers of History until...
"The World has Changed,
&
ALL will finally feel it ...in the Water"
{ sent by Hedgehog under the HEDGE on the West borders of the Old Forest }
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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corsair
Lindon
Nov 6 2017, 12:27pm
Post #74 of 210
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This has been my dream for years. A TV series based on TLOTR, emphasis being on the Silmarillon. Feanor, Celebrimbor, Gondolin etc. This would make a series that would blow GOT out of the water! Bring it on..
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Nov 6 2017, 2:08pm
Post #75 of 210
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This has been my dream for years. A TV series based on TLOTR, emphasis being on the Silmarillon. Feanor, Celebrimbor, Gondolin etc. This would make a series that would blow GOT out of the water! Bring it on..
Even if this goes through, I don't think you'll get that wish. My assumption, right now, is that The Silmarillion is still off the table.
"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock
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Remakes NOT? Additional Stories YES!
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