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DainPig
Mithlond
Dec 14 2015, 6:52am
Post #1 of 28
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Map of the battle of five armies
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Cheers
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
Hey guys, this is my blog: dainpigblog.blogspot.com
Dain Ironfoot has come!! And his pig's here too! It's going to be a great feast tonight, we are gonna eat Dain's pig! :0
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Smaug the iron
Mithlond
Dec 14 2015, 12:19pm
Post #2 of 28
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It really shows where all the armies are during the battle.
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Dec 14 2015, 3:29pm
Post #4 of 28
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Although, according to the geological (topographical?) map found on page 7 of The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies Visual Companion, the ridge where the Were-worms emerge should be called the Eastern Spur, terminating in the Southeast Knoll. The spur just to the west of the Front Gate is Ravenwing Ridge which ends at Birdseye Toll (where Tolkien placed Ravenhill in the book). And, just for the sake of completeness, south of Dale and east of the River Running is the Running Plateau. Oh, and I might be wrong about this, but I think that the Eagles with Radagast and Beorn arrived from the west (where they live in the Misty Mountains), not the east.
Does anyone know who actually drew the maps appearing in this book?
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Dec 14 2015, 3:32pm)
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DainPig
Mithlond
Dec 14 2015, 4:37pm
Post #5 of 28
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Oh, and I might be wrong about this, but I think that the Eagles with Radagast and Beorn arrived from the west (where they live in the Misty Mountains), not the east.
Well, Otaku, I say the eagles arrived from the east because we see them coming from behind Thorin, and behind Thorin is the east.
How aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you all???
Hey guys, this is my blog: dainpigblog.blogspot.com
Dain Ironfoot has come!! And his pig's here too! It's going to be a great feast tonight, we are gonna eat Dain's pig! :0
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Dec 14 2015, 4:57pm
Post #6 of 28
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Okay, pop the disc in the Blu-ray player:
Thorin and Azog are fighting on the ice. We can see the larger battle in the background. With the battle in the valley clearly visible behind him, Azog looks up, past Thorin, at the approaching eagles. The valley is east of Ravenhill. So the eagles arrive from the west. Settled.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Dec 14 2015, 4:59pm)
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pajasek99
Registered User
Dec 14 2015, 5:09pm
Post #7 of 28
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There are images of battle, first from Art of War and second from appendixes.
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Smaug the iron
Mithlond
Dec 14 2015, 5:19pm
Post #8 of 28
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You mean they are arrive from the east.
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So the eagles arrive from the west. The Eagles arrives from the battlefield to Ravenhill. And Ravenhill is West of the battlefield so the eagles must arrive from east. Plus Bolgs army arrives from West of Ravenhill.
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Dec 14 2015, 5:48pm
Post #9 of 28
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No. They don't. I just watched the scene.
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The Eagles arrives from the battlefield to Ravenhill. And Ravenhill is West of the battlefield so the eagles must arrive from east.
No. I just watched it. You have it exactly backwards. Azog is looking over Thorin's head at the arriving eagles. The battlefield is behind Azog to the EAST of Ravenhill which means that the eagles arrive from the WEST. See for yourself. If we see some of them flying from right to left in the next longshot then that only means that they are wheeling around the valley.
Plus Bolgs army arrives from West of Ravenhill.
Well, from the North, according to Gandalf. Of course, Ravenhill in the film is north of Dale, jutting from Ravenwing Ridge to the west, so close enough. Yes, the Goblin Mercenaries and the bats both arrive from the west from the other side of Ravenhill. However, nothing about that precludes the eagles arriving from the same direction.
The battle map of the Battle of the Five Armies (that I assume is from the final Hobbit Chronicles book) is orientated oddly, with North towards the upper left side of the page. It shows the eagles fighting Bolg's army west of the River Running, not on the main battlefield. That may be confusing the issue for me.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Dec 14 2015, 6:02pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Dec 14 2015, 6:07pm
Post #11 of 28
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My mistake was thinking that what we were seeing behind Azog was the battle in the valley of Dale. If what we see is Bolg's army still on the other side of the river, north and west of Ravenhill, then that alters things. That does make we wonder why we don't see anything going on behind Thorin. Of course, it would still make more sense for the eagles to be arriving from the west, but oh well...
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Dec 14 2015, 6:21pm)
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LSF
Mithlond
Dec 14 2015, 6:26pm
Post #12 of 28
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The eagles arrive from the west, since that is where they live and it makes no sense that they wouldn't. But they came from more south-west direction, more south than Dale. Then they turn around, to fly west (which is when we see them), to engage Bolg's army coming from that direction.
(This post was edited by LSF on Dec 14 2015, 6:32pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Dec 14 2015, 6:37pm
Post #13 of 28
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The eagles arrive from the west, since that is where they live and it makes no sense that they wouldn't. But they came from more south-west direction, more south than Dale. Then they turn around, to fly west (which is when we see them), to engage Bolg's army coming from that direction.
That does not seem to be the case according to the battle map. We do seem to first see them from the east, but maybe slightly to the south as well. It doesn't make much sense to me either, but that seems to be the case.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
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LSF
Mithlond
Dec 14 2015, 6:43pm
Post #14 of 28
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I said they fly west, meaning they would fly from the east of Ravenhill. The battle map shows them appearing right beside Ravenhill, which is the point where we see them, so I think I'm right. I am saying they arrive from south-west, which we don't see. But then when we see them, they appear to arrive from the east, because they turned around. Makes sense to me.
(This post was edited by LSF on Dec 14 2015, 6:45pm)
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Bombadil
Gondolin
Dec 15 2015, 11:22am
Post #15 of 28
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Peter..Thang you Berry ..buch..(sneeze.)
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Bomby..
www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Konrad S
Menegroth
Dec 15 2015, 1:15pm
Post #16 of 28
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Well i think these two is better than the first one...
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Dec 15 2015, 1:48pm
Post #17 of 28
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Here is Karen Wynn Fonstad's map from The Atlas of Middle-earth, illustrating Tolkien's Battle of Five Armies:
Also note how the position of Ravenhill changes from the book to the films (although the location is not altered on Thror's map in the Hobbit films). Click on the image to enlarge it:
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Dec 15 2015, 2:01pm)
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ThorinsNemesis
Menegroth
Dec 15 2015, 2:28pm
Post #18 of 28
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In DOS the Dwarves see Dale while they are standing at the Overlook before the slopes of Erebor. And I think the tunnels which the wereworms dug in BOTFA were also located at the Overlook.
The question is: where exactly is it on the map?
I have seen the close topographical map of Erebor's ridges in the BOTFA Visual Companion and there is a large hill of sorts located south of Dale named the 'Running Plateau' - is this 'Running Plateau' the Overlook?
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Dec 15 2015, 2:55pm
Post #19 of 28
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I'm not sure that the Overlook even exists on Tolkien's map, but I don't think that it could correspond to where the Were-worms emerged. They would have come out at the base of the East Ridge. The company would have been coming up from the south, following the river. Judging by the broken bridge visible from the Overlook, I would say that the company is west and somewhat south of Dale. Perhaps the Overlook is another name for what one of the maps names Birdseye Tor (where Tolkien placed Ravenhill in the book). It's only a guess, but it is the best guess I've got.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Dec 15 2015, 2:58pm)
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ThorinsNemesis
Menegroth
Dec 15 2015, 3:03pm
Post #20 of 28
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I think the Overlook is south and east of Dale, as you can see Ravenhill in the distance and it looks like the Overlook isn't west of Dale; another proof is that in BOTFA you can see that the broken bridge on the picture is the Eastern bridge of Dale, so it looks like the company is looking at it from the south: http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/thdos-trailer02-036.jpg . So maybe the Running Plateau is the location of the Overlook?
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pajasek99
Registered User
Dec 15 2015, 4:17pm
Post #21 of 28
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Overlook and tunnels.
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ThorinsNemesis
Menegroth
Dec 15 2015, 5:11pm
Post #22 of 28
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So the Overlook really seems to be on the southwestern ridge of Erebor  .
By the way, where did you get the upper left/grey picture of Dale? Is it from the Appendices  ?
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Timdalf
Ossiriand
Dec 15 2015, 5:16pm
Post #23 of 28
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at least seems to have correctly put Dale in a valley before the Front Gate, not up on a hill... considering the literal meaning of the word "dale"! Just one more annoying film oversight... unless the founders of the town were being clever! But then I would have thought they would have called it Tor! Sigh!
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pajasek99
Registered User
Dec 15 2015, 5:18pm
Post #24 of 28
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Yes, this picture of Dale is from the Appendices, chapter about dale.
I´ve created extended map of Battle with overlook and better compass.
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Dec 15 2015, 8:13pm
Post #25 of 28
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Peter Jackson has the river actually running through Dale. I assumed that the ruined bridge that we spy when the company first sees the city is at the southern end of the ruins. If I'm mistaken then that changes their perspective from what I thought it was.
"Things need not to have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure
when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
- Dream of the Endless
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