I don't think Legolas was angry and hurt over Tauriel's feelings for Kili. I seems to me he just couldn't stand to be the second choice of Tauriel's. I'm not sure he wasn't hurt, but I don't think he was at all angry. He seems to indulge her Dwarf-interest without holding it against her. He gets snarky in DOS about Kili, but I don't remember him being snarky in TBotFA.

OhioHobbit and I discussed whether Thranduil reversed his ruling to banish Tauriel. I felt he did and OhioHobbit wanted it to be explicit. But the moment seemed to me to open Thranduil up to the world again. He gave up his son to help defeat the evil and not just to hide and endure. It's those moments at the end when Thranduil tells Legolas to find Strider that showed that Thranduil really was in fact giving up something he loved -- such a touching exchange between them, though in typical Elf-fashion it's quite understated.

I often hear the criticism that the romance only serves to get more females into theaters and doesnt really effect the story in any way. But it seems to me that's not entirely true. Having just seen BOTFA for the first time, I think the romance and subsequent death of Kili coupled with Tauriels severe grief gained her and Legolas the sympathy of King Thranduil which probably played a part in his decision to allow Legolas to leave the woodland realm in search for Strider even though, interestingly enough, he had just established strict isolation rules on his kingdom in order to protect it and his son from the rise of Sauron (in DOS)

Thoughts?

Since we don't hear about him much in LOTR except when he sends his emissaries to the Council of Elrond, it makes me wonder if in the 60 years between The Hobbit and LOTR (a blink of an eye to an elf), he has already decided to take his kingdom and go West. By the end of ROTK, Rivendell is empty and it is assumed that all the other elves have left also. By the time we are at the end of The Hobbit and he sends his son out into the big bad world, are we already seeing Thranduil moving towards simply pulling out of Middle Earth altogether? He's not just sending him out into the world that he has tried to shield him from, he's sending him out to actively become a part of its salvation, separating him physically and culturally from his own people. If so, then that puts a different spin on the departure of Legolas.

"Though I don't know I kind of wonder, if on the other hand, Thranduil and Co just stayed and never left and faded into obscurity. Which is kind of even more poignant. "

spawning massive fanfics.....

or perhaps they disguised themselves as environmental activists, put on red watch caps and sailed on Calypso, hung out with Jane Goodall, rescued sea otters, and silently stalked rhino poachers............

I had a thought concerning something that I don't think people are stopping to consider before they criticize the Kili/Tauriel romance supblot:

Kili and Tauriel's romance actually serves as a nice precursor to and foundation for the development of Legolas' friendship with Gimli in The Lord of the Rings.

I'm fully convinced that, when all 6 of Jackson's ME films are watched sequentially, the way in which audiences perceive the development of Legolas and Gimli's friendship will be altered by Legolas having already seen camaraderie between Elf and Dwarf - despite the ages-old emnity between the two cultures - develop due to having watched the woman he loved - Tauriel - willingly put her life on the line for a Dwarf... and one who is a cousin (distant or otherwise), no less, of the Dwarf with whom he himself develops an unbreakable bond of friendship.

But see all this gets in the way of being able to blame silly women writers for putting in silly and purposeless romantic subplots for silly women who like that sort of silly thing(or evil studios who think people like that of stuff). I don't even like romances in general, I like this one because it DOES imo serve a great purpose and one that keeps nicely with the themes of Tolkien.

In Reply To

I can't tell if you're being facetious with the bolded, but on the off-chance you're not, who says that the Kili/Tauriel romance was thought up by Phillipa and Fran?

I just found this forum a few days ago (latecomer if ever there was one) and i wanted to post some thoughts about this relationship, but I got the impression that most people here are against the romance and/or tired of talking about it. So instead of putting up a new thread in the front page to irritate numerous people, I'll just pour it here if you'll excuse me... Everyone is free to ignore this anyway, right? :) I'm sorry if I repeat something that has already been said. i have read the board over a week now but can't recall who said what, and some may have had the same ideas.


I know I''m in a minority here, but I like Tauriel. She has integrity, compassion and courage to do what she thinks is right, regardless of the commands given by her superiors. There is also a plausible political & military reasoning behind her going after the orcs and to heal Kili: ”It is our fight. It will not end here. With every victory this evil will grow. If your father has his way, we will do nothing...” etc.


She is young for an elf and more open to new ideas (such as dwarwes being possibly likable creatures with positive qualities!) than the older elves who are more set in their ways and more engaged in keeping old grudges. They open each others' eyes to see beyond the racial prejudices. And while her relationship with Kili was unexpected, I think it adds to the trilogy rather than takes anything away. Why would it be so unthinkable that a young, lively and reckless dwarf became infatuated with a female elf – who had just happened to save his life in their shared battle (and looked amazing while doing it), and who was also ready to open up a little and have a meaningful discussion with him during his captivity? And would it be impossible that the elf in question was intrigued by this apparently kindred spirit, as well as touched by his promise to his mom and his growing affection for her saviour?


Come to think of it, I don't even know if the viewers against this relationship are actually mostly against

1. there being a new character interacting with the canonical characters
2. there being a romance of any kind, if there wasn't one in the book
3. there being a romance specifically between a dwarf and an elf
4. the way the romance has been depicted (i.e. rushed and therefore unrealistic)?

All of the above? ;)


The triangle with Legolas was quite subtle. Then again, since Thranduil denied any possibility of a relationship (other than professional) between Legolas and Tauriel, she may quite understandably have felt free to occasionally devote her time and company to someone else while off duty.


Someone somewhere criticized the scenes on the basis of ”having a dwarf fall in love with an elf (or the other way round) without any point.” Um... Since when has falling in love has any point in it? Isn't it always one of the most irrational and ”pointless” and surprisingly chaotic experience a human (dwarf, elf, what-have-you) can have? Or should we start from the POV that every single thing that happens in a movie must always have the ultimate motive of advancing the main plot? I would say that having some additional, unrelated things (such as taking a bath, meeting relatives, enjoying music or falling in love) happening along the main plot only deepens it and makes it more ”real” or at least realistic, as much as we can use that word with tales of fantasy.


I don't think the relationship was forced, but it was unfortunately very rushed. Somewehere along the way, Tauriel's general compassion and somewhat hesitant (?) interest in Kili evolved into something deeper that matched his feelings for her. The reason for that must be that this trilogy being a mixture of adventure, thriller and the age-old battle between good and evil, rather than a romance. It seems that romantic relationships are almost ALWAYS rushed and therefore progress far too quickly in all movies except those in the ”romance genre”, where the relationship itself is the main focus. Since there is so much happening all the time, with several groups of characters in various locations pulling several plot lines, it is impossible to give any new relationship the time it would take to advance realistically. If more time was given to Kili & Tauriel's interaction in the early stages, we might have bought their relationship more easily – but that would of course be impossible in a situation where so many viewers were set against the whole relationship from the start.


Well, we don't really know what may have happened after the initial discussion that Kili and Tauriel had that night at his cell. For all we know they may very well have sat in deep discussion most of the night, while Tauriel missed the whole feast... ;) I was hoping there would be a bit more about their ”getting to know each other” (before the scene in Lake-town) in the DoS EE, but sadly there was not. (It seems clear to me that when Kili asked her to come with him by the lake, she was about to say ”yes” when Legolas interrupted.) Still I think that the actors managed wonderfully with the time they were given, and that their scenes were a welcome bit of starlight amidst all the fighting. Kili's fate was made more bittersweet by Tauriel not being able to save him one more time but instead having to face an endless lifetime of memories. (And possibly also not having told Kili that she loved him too.) I would like to know what happened to her after the war – just one of so many unanswered questions at the end...