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Jazmine
Dor-Lomin
Feb 22 2008, 8:16pm
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The Arkenstone...any ideas?
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If the Hobbit movie does ever happen, (and I really hope it does, preferably sometime this century!), does anyone have any ideas what the Arkenstone might look like?? I've been thinking about it, and I think the design of it could make or break the whole movie! They had to design the One Ring in LoTR, but its not really as challenging, a ring, is just a ring at the end of the day. But the Arkenstone is completely different, way more challenging! And I think anyone who's read and loved the book has their own idea of what it looks like! The only thing I'm sure of, is that it has to be breathtaking. When its first on screen, it has to be a total WOW moment. What do you think? Can they do it?
*Jazminatar the Brown*
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Compa_Mighty
Dor-Lomin
Feb 23 2008, 2:50am
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It's really interesting that you have brought this up. We have been discussing everything you might possibly think considering the movie for over a year now, and no one ever mentioned The Arkenstone.
As for your question, I don't have a clue. I picture it somewhat like a shining crystal ball. Quartz maybe? It has to be about the size of a volleyball or football (that's a soccer one), doesn't it?
Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!
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Noneoftheabove
Menegroth
Feb 23 2008, 2:50am
Post #3 of 18
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Tolkien seems to describe the Arkenstone as a giant diamond in my mind, and most other artists depict it as such. Not very exciting...
From the Hobbit chapter "Not at Home", Tolkien writes:
"The great jewel shone before his feet of its own inner light, and yet, cut and fashioned by the dwarves, who had dug it from the heart of the mountain long ago, it took all light that fell upon it and changed it into ten thousand sparks of white radiance shot with glints of the rainbow."
Yet the description of the gem having an inner radiance is special. The nature of the gem is magical, and that is the key to start with I think. That feature worries me however, because it could be easily overdone and end up looking silly. The Dwarves are master craftsmen in gems and stonework. So instead of the traditional "brilliant cut" diamond, I'd like to try other designs and a more subtle approach to the Arkenstone's magic and beauty if it were my film to make.
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burrahobbit
Nargothrond
Feb 23 2008, 10:52am
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That would be larger than Bilbo's head! 
Bilbo has to steal the stone without the dwarves noticing and climb down with it to Bard and Thranduil. I remember it being described as larger than Bilbo's fist, so I'm thinking it should be a bit bigger than a softball. That would still make the Arkenstone greater than the most famous diamonds found in the real world.
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burrahobbit
Nargothrond
Feb 23 2008, 11:24am
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Gimli's description of how he would make the Glittering Caves more beautiful through subtle lighting and craft, illustrates how the dwarves sought to compliment nature in their work. I agree that the Arkenstone should to be something unique from the usual crystal globe. Here's a Donato Giancola picture that follows the globe route- nice colours but there's just something too predictable about it:
Doing something unusual and more 'natural' with the cut might help, or even having an uncut stone. I like 'teardrop' shaped stones like the Cullinan diamond:
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orcbane
Mithlond
Feb 23 2008, 4:18pm
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Found still attached to Liz Taylors skeleton
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would be a nice and very realistic touch I think. Good deetail to scrutinize btw Jazmine. Given PJ's prediliction for gigantism, it just may end up watermellon size. I do agree the round & classical diamond shapes don't cut it. Pyramidal design would evoke too current themes. I suppose I would start searching all known stone cut types & hope one grabbed me.
An Ent juggling spikey things ?
(This post was edited by orcbane on Feb 23 2008, 4:19pm)
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Noneoftheabove
Menegroth
Feb 24 2008, 8:03am
Post #7 of 18
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burrahobbit's Arkenstone ideas
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I'm in favor of Giancola's Arkenstone design very much. And yet I can relate to what you mean by predictable as a design. My thoughts keep drifting back to a humble, uncut diamond of very large size. And yet to be true to Tolkien it must be a cut stone.
On the other hand I like the tear drop design. This Arkenstone could have dual meaning with the tragedy of luring the Dragon and the fight over it that comes soon after Bilbo discovers it.
(This post was edited by Noneoftheabove on Feb 24 2008, 8:09am)
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kareniel
Menegroth
Feb 24 2008, 12:39pm
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Artistic license would allow a cabochon-cut gem that glowed rather than sparkled with a soft light in a color between sky blue and violet. It would have a subtle, mysterious beauty rather than a spectacular one. Good question, Jazmine!
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Jazmine
Dor-Lomin
Feb 24 2008, 12:47pm
Post #9 of 18
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I do like the teardrop design...
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And I agree, it can't be too huge, otherwise Bilbo smuggling it away would just be completely impractical. While a large diamond style stone would look pretty good, I'm hoping they go for something unique. Something that makes it different from everything else. Thorin described it as follows: "It was like a globe with a thousand faces; it shone like silver in the firelight, like water in the sun, like snow under the stars, like rain upon the Moon!"
And then, when Bilbo comes across it in the dragon's hoarde, "It was tinged with a flickering sparkle of many colours at the surface, reflected and splintered from the wavering light of his torch. At last he looked down upon it, and he caught his breath. The great jewel shone before his feet of its own inner light, and yet, cut and fashioned by the dwarves, who had dug it from the heart of the mountain long ago, it took all light that fell upon it and changed it into ten thousand sparks of white radiance shot with glints of the rainbow."
I really think they need to come up with something really spectacular for the movie, and I'm not sure a regular diamond would cut it! I've seen a few illustrations, but nothing that's blown me away!
*Jazminatar the Brown*
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Idril Celebrindal
Dor-Lomin
Feb 24 2008, 10:33pm
Post #10 of 18
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Pictures of famous (and infamous) diamonds
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Maybe we can look at some real-world diamonds for inspiration!
The Koh-i-noor diamond (British Crown Jewels)
The Dar-ye-Noor, part of the Iranian crown jewels
The Great Star of Africa (Cullinan) Diamond:
The Hope Diamond
The Agra diamond:
The Centenary diamond
Hortensia diamond
Orlov diamond
With caffeine, all things are possible.
The pity of Bilbo will screw up the fate of many.
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Idril Celebrindal
Dor-Lomin
Feb 24 2008, 10:54pm
Post #11 of 18
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And here's a few from Rolozo Tolkien
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Michael Hague's illustration for The Hobbit:
Ted Naismith:
Peter Green:
With caffeine, all things are possible.
The pity of Bilbo will screw up the fate of many.
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burrahobbit
Nargothrond
Feb 24 2008, 11:26pm
Post #12 of 18
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I like the shape of the centenary diamond...
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It looks like a good hefty dwarven stone- certainly not a 'girl's best friend' kind of diamond . Interesting post!
Seeing all those pictures again makes the point that the Arkenstones has got to be more than a typical expensive diamond. Those famous stones look glitzy, but not breathtakingly magical. Reminds me of Ohio Hobbit's post in thread below about the use of eye lights in LotR- they'll definitely need some unique Arkenstone lights to give the stone its magic.
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Jazmine
Dor-Lomin
Feb 24 2008, 11:35pm
Post #13 of 18
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The Centenary & Agra diamonds...
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look promising as a starting point. In Nasmith's painting, the Arkenstone is a little obscure looking, I'd love to see how Ted would do it closer up? I'm actually seeing him at an exhibition in April, along with Alan Lee & John Howe. I may ask if any of them have any ideas for it, and see if they can do me a quick sketch! Actually, I know there are a few artistic types who post on these boards, it might be interesting to see if they have any good ideas! I paint/sketch/draw myself, but so far haven't come up with anything worth sharing! I've seen some pretty good artwork on these boards though, so I'm sure someone could come up with something!
*Jazminatar the Brown*
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burrahobbit
Nargothrond
Feb 25 2008, 10:39am
Post #14 of 18
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Sounds like a great exhibition...
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That would be amazing to see all the best Tolkien artists together, and if you can get them to do a sketch for you then even better! Hope you have a fun time. 
It's interesting how neither Lee, Howe or Nasmith has really gone for painting the Arkenstone in any detail before. I guess they felt Tolkien's vivid description didn't need a book illustration (or that it would be difficult for an image to live up to the description).
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Jazmine
Dor-Lomin
Feb 25 2008, 9:07pm
Post #15 of 18
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In the books the Arkenstone's description didn't really need an illustration, it had already cast an image in the readers mind. Thats what I think will be so difficult. So many people have their own vision of this wonderful jewel, how on earth can they satisfy that on screen?!
I will definately try and at least get some words out of them on the design! Needless to say, if I'm lucky enough to get any sketches I will be running home to post on here immediately!
*Jazminatar the Brown*
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Feb 26 2008, 7:24pm
Post #16 of 18
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Here are the book descriptions
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""It was like a globe with a thousand facets; it shone like silver in the firelight, like water in the sun, like snow under the stars, like rain upon the Moon!""
"It was the Arkenstone, the Heart of the Mountain. So Bilbo guessed from Thorin's description; but indeed there could not be two such gems, even in so marvellous a hoard, even in all the world. Ever as he climbed, the same white gleam had shone before him and drawn his feet towards it. Slowly it grew to a little globe of pallid light. Now as he came near, it was tinged with a flickering sparkle of many colours at the surface, reflected and splintered from the wavering light of his torch. At last he looked down upon it, and he caught his breath. The great jewel shone before his feet of its own inner light, and yet, cut and fashioned by the dwarves, who had dug it from the heart of the mountain long ago. It took all light that fell upon it and changed it into ten thousand sparks of white radiance shot with glints of the rainbow.
Suddenly Bilbo's arm went towards it drawn by its enchantment. His small hand would not close about it, for it was a large and heavy gem; but he lifted it, shut his eyes, and put it in his deepest pocket."
""You may see it!" said he. "It is this!" and he drew forth the Arkenstone, and threw away the wrapping.
The Elvenking himself, whose eyes were used to things of wonder and beauty, stood up in amazement. Even Bard gazed marvelling at it in silence. It was as if a globe had been filled with moonlight and hung before them in a net woven of the glint of frosty stars."
For me, the Donato illustration and Centenary diamond resemble what my image of it has been. I also see it as about the size between a softball and a baseball. By the description, Bilbo's hand doesn't fit around it, but he can easily handle it with one grip; he can wrap it in a rag and keep it in his pocket without it bulging so much as to give him away, and it's described over and over as a globe but not a smooth surface like the palantir. I can't WAIT to see what they come up with for the film!!
 
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
TORn's Observations Lists
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Ainu Laire
Dor-Lomin
Feb 27 2008, 6:35am
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Frankly put, nothing really here has just screamed Arkenstone. The well done pictures (such as the Hope diamond) simply don't fit the description, while the Koh-i-noor diamond seems to fit the shape and size of the Arkenstone, but the photograph does not capture its brilliance.
What would need to be done is simply that the lighting would need to be very, very precise on close ups on the stone to really capture its brilliance. Maybe some CGI magic, as well- subtle magic, if used though.
I was never much a fan of diamonds, anyhow, so trying to imagine a diamond-like gem as the best thing in the world is difficult for me. XD
My LJ
My art site
NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.
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Jazmine
Dor-Lomin
Feb 27 2008, 11:13pm
Post #18 of 18
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A diamond doesn't really seem special enough. I've not come across any illustrations that are that detailed though to be honest. I'd just hate for it to end up looking really boring or tacky in the movie! It's got to be something that makes you catch your breath, like Bilbo did when he saw it! Tough stuff!
*Jazminatar the Brown*
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