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Beorn's Bees
Lorien
Aug 8 2014, 3:09am
Post #1 of 23
(967 views)
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Are fan edits disrespectful?
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A thread a few weeks ago made made me wonder - are fan edits disrespectful to the film makers? In my opinion, I think FE's are an art form in their own. Some would say it is rude to those who made the film. I just consider it another spin on someone else's story. Thoughts?
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Meneldor
Valinor
Aug 8 2014, 3:37am
Post #2 of 23
(805 views)
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IMO, a fan edit is no different from fast forwarding
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past a scene you don't like. Who hasn't done that?
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Cirashala
Valinor
Aug 8 2014, 4:26am
Post #3 of 23
(800 views)
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the only time when it is disrespectful, IMHO, is when it is sold or otherwise distributed illegally.
But yeah- Meneldor is right. It's no different than fast forwarding through scenes one either doesn't like, or isn't in the mood for on a particular day (for instance, if my talents were to lie in editing, I would probably omit all Gollum scenes from LOTR for "short marathon" days, because though he's extremely well done, the character himself just annoys the crap out of me (I don't think I handle split personality disorder well)- however I would keep the long version too because occasionally I do like to watch through the whole thing). It's also nice to have the condensed version of my 6-7 hours, rather than 12, through fast forwarding because most days I don't have the time (or my small daughters interrupt me often) to make it through the full nearly 12 hours long movie marathon.
But no, it isn't disrespectful, I think, and some people have such talent for editing that, IMO, if they own the movie, and want to omit/rearrange things in order to better appreciate it (say, if people want to omit Azog because they're more purist, or want a version truer to Tolkien, etc) then why not?
Jackson has done some fantastic work visually, even if he deviates from the book at times. So what better way for a more purist sort of person to still enjoy the work and creativity and visual aesthetic of the movie to omit the parts they don't personally like? If Tauriel, or Azog, or the way they did white council/high fells, etc, bugs them and ruins the whole movie for them, why should others opinions deny them the chance to actually enjoy it with their edits?
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Arannir
Valinor
Aug 8 2014, 8:50am
Post #4 of 23
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a) ... you sell it.
b) ... you use your edit to boast about your editing abilities and how superior they are to those who have edited the original movie.
You used way too much of someone else's work to be so proud about something like this or even to take money for it (not even mentioning that it is illegal)... especially since you only had to please yourself - not all the people with interest in a movie (producers, audience, etc.) when you actually are responsible.
Funnily, there are people out there who claim PJ has hurt some moral standards by changing Tolkien's works... but have no issue selling "their" versions of his (lawfully made) movies.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Aug 8 2014, 8:53am)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Aug 8 2014, 1:32pm
Post #5 of 23
(774 views)
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A fan edit can be seen as an intellectual exercise, discovering if a more concise edit can work better than the original.
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Magpie
Immortal
Aug 8 2014, 1:57pm
Post #6 of 23
(773 views)
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as a training exercise.
Many students use existing work to refine particular skills. There's a myriad number of components to any artistic work and students can't be good at them all.
As a time saver, one might pick some existing piece and rework it while trying to develop one of those skills.
And, at the same time, one starts to examine and understand what makes 'good art'.
Arranir, I agree wholeheartedly with what you said.
Making a fan edit of a film is not disrespectful. That doesn't mean a fan *editor* of a film can't be disrespectful.
Disrespectful behavior and attitude is disrespectful. Doesn't matter what the situation or activity is.
(This post was edited by Magpie on Aug 8 2014, 1:57pm)
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
Aug 8 2014, 2:23pm
Post #7 of 23
(763 views)
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Fan edits are personal and are not intended to be distributed usually so in that case no.
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Annael
Elvenhome
Aug 8 2014, 2:50pm
Post #8 of 23
(764 views)
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film-makers who edit their films themselves might learn something that would improve their craft, were they to watch some fan-edited versions.
I say this as someone who edits people's writing AND as an author who has others edit her work. The editor's goal is making sure that the writer communicates exactly what she or he wants to communicate to the reader. And I find that most writers, especially the more experienced ones, understand and appreciate this. I am leery of people who think they don't need this help - especially film-makers!
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Darkstone
Immortal
Aug 8 2014, 3:03pm
Post #9 of 23
(766 views)
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Personally, I made an Eowyn-only fan edit which is usually continually looping on another nearby computer screen.
Of course it's strictly for my own personal viewing. I would never distribute it. Even for free. That would be wrong.
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Arwen's daughter
Half-elven
Aug 8 2014, 3:57pm
Post #10 of 23
(754 views)
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It's just another form of fan art in my eyes
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There's an exercise beginning writers often use to rewrite a favorite book or story in their own style as a way of learning how things fit together in a good novel/story. Fan edits seem very similar to me.
Sometimes when I'm making a costume recreation from a movie I have to make tweaks. Either because I can't find what I need or to better suit my body shape or my budget or because there are things that are actually in the movie costumes that "read" as a mistake in a fan costume. Sometimes I "fix" those things because they work better for me.
Fan writers routinely change the way a series ends or who the main character ends up with. They rewrite scenes to fit their own wishes. Or they expand the universe further to insert themselves or other characters they would like to see there.
People make fan edits for many reasons. Because something in the movie bothers them. Because the movies don't fit into their time budget. Or just because they want to see the movie in a different style. It's all the same to me as any other form of fan art.
Now, that said, these things can certainly be presented disrespectfully. But that doesn't make them inherently disrespectful, to my mind. We're all just playing in someone else's sandbox and hoping we don't step on any toes along the way.
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Aug 10 2014, 12:28am
Post #11 of 23
(727 views)
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I seems to me that it's a only half an art form
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Taking something someone else has already created and making your "version" of it. It's like fanfics. People claim it's their writing and maybe it is to some extent but they haven't built the characters or created the world. It's like coloring in coloring books vs drawing or painting.
That isn't to say it isn't fun or a good exercise in editing or writing, which it can be at times. But without only a few exceptions (that I could count on one hand), I've never known a fan edit or fanfic that could stand up to the original. The copycat storytellers I've read/watched were never able to get the same... vibe.. as the original; the thing that made the original so worthy of being copied.
But hey, if folks want to play, I say go ahead. Just don't toot your horn that you got it right and the original got it wrong. That, I feel, is disrespectful.
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Starling
Half-elven
Aug 10 2014, 3:57am
Post #12 of 23
(717 views)
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You have saved me from having to make the effort of writing a post! What you said is exactly how I feel.
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IdrilLalaith
Rivendell
Aug 10 2014, 5:17pm
Post #13 of 23
(707 views)
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Depends on if you see editing as only half an art
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While I certainly agree with you that fan editors can't take the credit of making the entire movie, neither can the editors of the actual film.
I took an editing class in college. There were about 15 of us in the class and we each were given the exact same footage and told to make a short film based on it. While the basic story was the same, the editing styles, what was emphasized, and the tone differed quite a lot.
I do believe that editing is an art unto itself. There are a lot of movies out there that could have been so much better if the editing had been improved. One of my film professors said that a movie is written three times: in pre-production (script), production (filming), and post-production (editing & special effects). I definitely believe this.
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Aug 10 2014, 7:06pm
Post #14 of 23
(698 views)
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Professional editors working as a team with a director, screen writer, cast and crew
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I see that collaboration as completely different from folks making Youtube videos of movies to make themselves happy. Professional editing is an art, something that is not easy and sometimes forgotten. Those folks are working with a team creating the original work, not mucking about after the fact.
A friend of mine who is a professional editor of printed material said fanfics are like playing in the sandbox. Who knows what great engineering marvels started with a five year old making castles? It's fun, it starts creativity flowing maybe. But at some point, the true artists stop playing with someone else's creations and start making their own. Can some movies be made better by a bit of editing? I don't know. What is "better" and who's opinion do we ask for? The crowd? The critics? The director? The folks who vote on the Oscars? "Better" is subjective, at least to me.
Like I said, fan edits can be fun and educational but, getting back to what I think was the driver for the original post, anything beyond having fun or trying to learn something about the writing/filming process smacks of just a bit too much taking of another's work and having too much love for one's own opinion for my taste. It's just my opinion, but fan "editors" who think they know better have little to do with the professionals who actually do.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Aug 11 2014, 1:00am
Post #15 of 23
(687 views)
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For some reason this reminded me of Thomas Jefferson
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who made an edited version of the Gospels for his own use. Of course now it's available to the public.
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sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea
Aug 11 2014, 4:50am
Post #16 of 23
(680 views)
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on the restoration of Jefferson's original. It was really interesting-- i'd recommend it.
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Aug 11 2014, 8:50pm
Post #17 of 23
(662 views)
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I have seen some people post on TORn about their "edit," and how convinced they are that their edited version is so much better - yeah, that sounds somewhat disrespectful to me. And I think it is different from simply fast-forwarding through a "boring" scene. It takes quite a bit of time to make a copy & clip out the scenes, and it's certainly nothing I can do. I don't think you can call it a "labor of love," either - unless you're talking about those YouTube videos where scenes are set to your favorite song - I WISH I could do that!
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Aug 11 2014, 8:56pm
Post #18 of 23
(659 views)
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"A friend of mine who is a professional editor of printed material said fanfics are like playing in the sandbox. Who knows what great engineering marvels started with a five year old making castles? It's fun, it starts creativity flowing maybe. But at some point, the true artists stop playing with someone else's creations and start making their own."
I'm actually NOT writing a Hobbit fanfic - I'm working on a story that's heavily inspired by PJ's movies, but hopefully more of a salute than a rip-off.
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Aug 13 2014, 1:40am
Post #20 of 23
(631 views)
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I wasn't referring to anyone in particular
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It was just a general statement about fanfics.
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DaughterofLaketown
Gondor
Aug 13 2014, 5:13am
Post #21 of 23
(626 views)
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I think it's good to write fanfiction becuase at least people are using their time being creative and practicing their writing.
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But obviously if you want to move beyond a hobby you should try writing your own.
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