|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Annael
Elvenhome
Feb 18 2008, 4:05pm
Post #26 of 64
(753 views)
Shortcut
|
|
*whistling sound passing overhead*
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
//
Only the mediocre are always at their best.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 18 2008, 4:10pm
Post #27 of 64
(727 views)
Shortcut
|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
Hengist
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 18 2008, 4:26pm
Post #28 of 64
(745 views)
Shortcut
|
|
"These are not the dark things you are looking for"
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
either that or they had clipboards and a shiney badge - you can get anywhere with them.....
I May be a scientist but I'm also a Ninja fencer!
|
|
|
Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 18 2008, 6:27pm
Post #30 of 64
(735 views)
Shortcut
|
The Princess Bride? Sure. Monty Python? Of course. Galaxy Quest? Most certainly! But the VSD? I may weep...
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
|
|
|
Annael
Elvenhome
Feb 18 2008, 8:05pm
Post #32 of 64
(726 views)
Shortcut
|
don't.
Only the mediocre are always at their best.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
|
|
|
L. Ron Halfelven
Hithlum
Feb 18 2008, 9:45pm
Post #33 of 64
(728 views)
Shortcut
|
|
It undoubtedly helped that these were the guards:
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
"We don't need to do anything apart from just stop bright things from leaving Mordor."
Where is the horse and the rider?.... Oh.
|
|
|
Aunt Dora Baggins
Elvenhome
Feb 18 2008, 9:58pm
Post #34 of 64
(731 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Hey, come on over to the Reading Room.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I really think you'd enjoy the discussion there. A lot of it is over my head (I've read LotR 25 times, but my analytical skills are pretty weak.) But I still love lurking there and occasionally posting.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
|
|
Tolkien Forever
Mithlond
Feb 18 2008, 10:53pm
Post #35 of 64
(724 views)
Shortcut
|
It hardly takes a genius to figure out what that's about...
The Sillymarillion, I'm thinking 'The names are funny', by 2/3 of the way through, I realized it was the same joke over & over & over again & again & again & - you get my point. I never got to the extra take off's on Alkabeth & 'of The Ring's of Power..'
I was so bored it took all my energy to finish the Sillymarillion proper.
Still, props to the guy for all the funny name take offs.
|
|
|
Tolkien Forever
Mithlond
Feb 18 2008, 11:16pm
Post #36 of 64
(725 views)
Shortcut
|
Don't you have to read the book?
I'm currently reading it to my ten year old so who has autism....
We just finished Book 1 FOTR last night.
I read it aloud with different voices for each character - when I read The Hobbit, he covered his ears when I did Gollum & was scared at Smaug. 
I spend too much time here now & fear if I went into The Reading Room, forget it.
Besides I tend to go in for theories like 'Why didn''t the Balrog leave Moria?' or 'Where did Dragons come from?',
et all.
BTW: I've also read the books 25 times (I guess) - I never counted, but it must be 25 at least.
|
|
|
stormcrow20
Mithlond
Feb 19 2008, 12:12am
Post #37 of 64
(721 views)
Shortcut
|
theories are much welcomed in the Reading Room. You can create a new topic on whatever you like, anytime you like. As for time, all you have to do is just split your time spent on this forum between Main and the RR.
I spend too much time here now & fear if I went into The Reading Room, forget it.
Besides I tend to go in for theories like 'Why didn''t the Balrog leave Moria?' or 'Where did Dragons come from?',
et all.
"Good Morning!"
(This post was edited by stormcrow20 on Feb 19 2008, 12:14am)
|
|
|
Tolkien Forever
Mithlond
Feb 19 2008, 12:43am
Post #38 of 64
(716 views)
Shortcut
|
Don't theories get more 'action' (readers) in 'Main'?
Think i'll go check the RR now however & see what tickles my fancie.....
|
|
|
Aunt Dora Baggins
Elvenhome
Feb 19 2008, 1:03am
Post #39 of 64
(714 views)
Shortcut
|
the Reading Room is the source of the UUT (Utterly Unsupportable Theory, invented by the late and lamented Reverend). There's a *lot* of speculation goes on there. I really think you'd enjoy it.
A quick "search posts" for UUT in the Reading Room comes up with lots of interesting posts. The first one listed concernts Beorn's wife:
http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=2179;search_string=UUT;#2179
I read LotR out loud to my kids too, many years ago. They were 5 and 9. They *begged* me to skip the Council of Elrond, so we kind of skimmed through that chapter. I found an audio tape recently of the first hour of that adventure; wish I had the whole thing. I love hearing them giggle over "Drownded!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
|
|
namadriel
Menegroth
Feb 19 2008, 1:26am
Post #40 of 64
(684 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Tapped them on the right shoulder, and snuck past on the left //
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
|
|
|
Tolkien Forever
Mithlond
Feb 19 2008, 1:41am
Post #41 of 64
(715 views)
Shortcut
|
Unlike The Reverend (may he rest in peace), the UUT seems alive and well, where folks will say, despite producing a quote from Tolkien himself to back up a point, "Well, I still chose to interpret it this way (despite incontrovertable evidence that you've just shown me by the author himself)". 
|
|
|
squire
Gondolin
Feb 19 2008, 2:14am
Post #42 of 64
(733 views)
Shortcut
|
Typically, UUT debates thrive in the absence of any "incontrovertible evidence" from Tolkien's texts. By definition they are "Unproveable" or "Unsupported".
One thing I've learned here, though, is that Tolkien's texts are rarely incontrovertible, and are very often open to multiple interpretations.
I know well the feeling you describe: when you're certain that Tolkien absolutely meant something to be true and understood by all, but no matter how hard you try and no matter how many quotes you cite, you just cannot convince another person that you are right. For instance, do you think Aragorn is "arrogant" -- or "rightfully proud of his elevated rank and talents, and of the respect that it naturally demands of lesser persons"? I am certain that the latter interpretation is correct. But it's not as simple as it seems to use Tolkien's texts to prove either case, let me tell you, 'cause I just about died trying one day on TORn and got absolutely nowhere.
Surely there are "facts" about Middle-earth that one reader knows and another does not, because the latter one has not done all the reading. But I think those are absolutely the least interesting debates one can have about Tolkien, since they are solved once and for all by both people reading the same page of a book for the first time. Bilbo's front door is round. A mallorn is a species of tree. Beleriand is a drowned land that was west of the great lands of the Third Age's Middle-earth. Etc.
The really interesting debates are when Tolkien is being less than "factual", or when a text is challenged by another text from a another story or time in Tolkien's life. What color is Galadriel's hair? Is Bilbo's ring in The Hobbit the same ring as in The Lord of the Rings? Why is Farmer Giles' grey mare so darned important? Was Feanor a good guy? Do the orcs have souls? Etc. These are a few of the roughly five thousand questions I've seen debated here in the past four or five years, on which the author does not give incontrovertible evidence.
When your interlocutor says he or she "still [chooses] to interpret it this way", they are telling you that you are interpreting a text that has no meaning independent of its readers in a way that makes sense to you. It does not necessarily make sense in the same way to others, who are reading the same text and taking a different meaning away from it.
I resisted this disconcerting discovery for a long time, then finally accepted it. I began to learn a lot more about Tolkien, thereafter, from my fellow real fans.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
|
|
|
entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 19 2008, 2:26am
Post #43 of 64
(697 views)
Shortcut
|
but I don't like the other two.
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
|
|
|
entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 19 2008, 2:30am
Post #44 of 64
(712 views)
Shortcut
|
is that Eowyn rode out with the Rohirrim several times before she left with Merry. Dernhelm was well known to some of the companies of the Eored.
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
|
|
|
stormcrow20
Mithlond
Feb 19 2008, 4:25am
Post #45 of 64
(694 views)
Shortcut
|
but the Reading Room has more regular posters there who would be more to your liking, I believe, as we have tried to tell you. Several of those posters are rarely seen anywhere but in the RR.
"Good Morning!"
|
|
|
Tolkien Forever
Mithlond
Feb 19 2008, 4:56am
Post #46 of 64
(705 views)
Shortcut
|
Those subjects where you offer what I call 'scripture' (Tolkien's text) to back you up & get nowhere just doesn't do any good - you can't change a person's opinion.
For example, I was debating the fact that Morgoth did not have the power he once did as Melkor by the end of the First Age...
Despite the Morgoth's Ring' Theories & quotes in that book that say he had little power left & indeed Sauron in the Second Age had more 'effective' power' than Morgoth at the end of the 1st Age, (not to mention arguements about Morgoth's inabilty to change shape any longer, his inabilty to asail the Maia Arien & to fight off Ungoliant), I got nowhere for a week or two before giving up.
It seems that if many have their mind made up, no proof will convince them. Me, on the other hand will admit when wrong, like here. The desert, only refers to the area between the sea & Tharbad. The area extending to Hollin, that's still debatable as to the extent it was devasted, but obviously some brush & trees grew there, so it might've been a wasteland, but certainly not what we call desert proper.
|
|
|
Annael
Elvenhome
Feb 19 2008, 5:45am
Post #47 of 64
(703 views)
Shortcut
|
that Finduilas was more than a little in love with "Thorongil" - and Denethor knew it, and knew who he really was too, which factored into his attitude about giving up the rule of Gondor later.
Only the mediocre are always at their best.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Feb 19 2008, 9:43am
Post #48 of 64
(668 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I read it to my daughter when she was 9
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
and to my grandkiddies. Even if they don't completely "get" the story, the fact that you're spending quiet time reading with them is such a gift... for everyone :)
 
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
TORn's Observations Lists
|
|
|
a.s.
Doriath
Feb 19 2008, 12:25pm
Post #49 of 64
(679 views)
Shortcut
|
|
perhaps you meant this post to be in the RR?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
There are some of us who mainly hang in the RR and rarely get to the other boards, so will miss this response to your original RR post. Maybe you can post a link to this response over there so others will know?
Discussing unprovable points is fun, but rarely changes another's mind. The points are unprovable by their nature. They can be supported (weakly or strongly) by evidence or conjecture based on interpretation of text, but not finally decided. The RR is a good place to defend a thesis around a particular point, but not a good place to endlessly discuss "what ifs". I think that's why we have an Arena!
a.s.
"an seileachan"
"Just look along the road, and tell me if you can see either of them."
"I see nobody on the road," said Alice.
"I only wish I had such eyes," the King remarked in a fretful tone. "To be able to see Nobody! And at that distance too! Why, it's as much as I can do to see real people, by this light!"
|
|
|
|
|
