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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
New Virtual Cinematography video!
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smaug the stupendous
The Shire

Apr 18 2014, 3:35am

Post #1 of 31 (1358 views)
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New Virtual Cinematography video! Can't Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85LO9tH2Khc

Shows how they did all the fully CGI shots in the film. 1/4 of the shots were fully CGI! I think thats a bit too much but check the video out!


TheHutt
Gondor


Apr 18 2014, 6:20am

Post #2 of 31 (909 views)
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Here the Weta link: [In reply to] Can't Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX3VFxcAZME

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Booklet Project



SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Apr 18 2014, 9:04am

Post #3 of 31 (807 views)
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Again [In reply to] Can't Post

Just to point out, it is not a quarter of the film that is CGI just one quarter of hand shots. There will be a lot of completely CGI shots which are very short which is why there are a lot of them.


Arannir
Valinor


Apr 18 2014, 9:23am

Post #4 of 31 (787 views)
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Not too much imho. [In reply to] Can't Post

Though it is as pointed out above the other way round.

Imho it is not too much as the look of the movie is amazing and the CGI much better than in any comparable film-


ďAll good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


tsmith675
Gondor


Apr 18 2014, 1:17pm

Post #5 of 31 (730 views)
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I honestly don't see why people hate CGI so much. [In reply to] Can't Post

Practical effects aren't better than CG effects. Just like CG effects aren't better than practical effects. CGI is at the point now where it looks like practical effects (mostly). There are obviously some instances of poor CGI use. But ten again, I can see in many films poor set work where I can tell they are obviously on a set. So I don't get why people dislike it so much.

I know people will say they don't like the unnecessary use of CGI, but why not? Why does it matter? Not all CGI looks good, just like all practical effects look good. I was actually surprised at how much was actually CGI. Most of the shots I couldn't even tell. But people seem to get pissed when they hear "A quarter of the shots are CGI" even when they couldn't tell a lot of the shots were CGI in the first place. It makes my brain hurt.

Our destiny lies above us.


BlackFox
Half-elven


Apr 18 2014, 1:25pm

Post #6 of 31 (726 views)
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I personally have a serious case of CGI-detecting-blindness [In reply to] Can't Post

They have me fooled 99% of the time.


"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau

(This post was edited by BlackFox on Apr 18 2014, 1:28pm)


Imladris18
Lorien


Apr 18 2014, 1:26pm

Post #7 of 31 (709 views)
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Because there's this stigma that CGI is the cheap and easy way to do things. [In reply to] Can't Post

Which couldn't be father from the truth. Also, heavy CGI implies more action, which, for whatever reason, movies with lots of action are also critically "bad" movies.

A very, very, very realistic CGI shot will still get criticized simply because some people can notice that it's not real, regardless of the actual quality of the CGI.



dormouse
Half-elven


Apr 18 2014, 1:40pm

Post #8 of 31 (697 views)
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Me too.... [In reply to] Can't Post

And I can't see what the fuss is about


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 18 2014, 2:05pm

Post #9 of 31 (698 views)
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Yep. [In reply to] Can't Post

Sometimes what I'd swear is cgi is real, and other times what I'd swear is real turns out to be cgi, so I don't worry about it. (Like those ruins the Fellowship pass by in FOTR had me wondering where in NZ would there be such a beautiful old cathedral.)

Anyway, I grew up on creature features with rubber suited monsters and wire propelled spaceships, so I learned long ago to suspend belief. You gotta meet the filmmakers halfway if you really want to enjoy a film.

******************************************
https://www.facebook.com/slatesforsarah

(This post was edited by Darkstone on Apr 18 2014, 2:07pm)


Thranderz
Rohan


Apr 18 2014, 2:13pm

Post #10 of 31 (678 views)
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Fantastic! [In reply to] Can't Post

If you're immersed in their world then CGI should just aid in the immersion, you shouldn't be trying to point it out. What you said about meeting them half way hits the nail on the head for me!Smile

I simply walked into Mordor.


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 18 2014, 2:26pm

Post #11 of 31 (678 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

If you do things the expensive and hard way you end up with studio breaking mega-flops like Heaven's Gate (1980), Waterworld (1995), and Sahara (2006).

Really, it is the producer's job to make a movie as easily and cheaply as possible. He'll get fired otherwise, and rightly so.

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Imladris18
Lorien


Apr 18 2014, 2:40pm

Post #12 of 31 (669 views)
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Well, right. [In reply to] Can't Post

But I think the perception is that it's cheap/lazy.



BlackFox
Half-elven


Apr 18 2014, 2:46pm

Post #13 of 31 (667 views)
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Words of gold, Darkstone! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
You gotta meet the filmmakers halfway if you really want to enjoy a film.



"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 18 2014, 4:24pm

Post #14 of 31 (630 views)
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Yeah. [In reply to] Can't Post

I know the overuse of teal/orange color grading is pretty much a good sign the filmmaker got lazy.

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glor
Rohan

Apr 18 2014, 4:29pm

Post #15 of 31 (645 views)
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Lazy... [In reply to] Can't Post

or the notion that computer generated equals no human creative hands or minds involved and, no skill. There is a prejudice against any creative medium that involves the use of computer technology as if, the process involved in such works is done by the microchips not, the human operator and therefore has less value than traditional methods of artistic expression.

I also think there is a certain amount of politics with a small p. CGI, like electronic music challenges those whose livelihoods are dependent on more traditional mediums of creativity, there are directors and actors who claim not to like CGI and refuse to work with it yet, it is more likely the case that they cannot work with it. CGI movies for instance have garnered a reputation for bad acting, many actors from traditional film and Tv backgrounds struggle with their performances in the CGI medium, yet actors from a theatrical background have a stronger tendency to produce high quality performances in CGI films. This is probably because theatre actors have the skill set and experience to work with imaginary rather than real backgrounds, and props, for instance, standing alone on a setless stage giving a battle speech in Shakespeare and having the chops to convince an audience that a battle is taking place, in a film, it's similar and has to be created later in post-production by the CGI team. From an acting POV, CGI and theatre involve similar skill sets and experience.

Tv and film actors, especially many of Hollywoods movie stars are severly lacking in theatre experience and instead have a style of acting that involves reacting and interacting with 'real' objects and people on set, putting such an actor on a full blown green set is like a fish out fo water, as Lucas proved in the Star wars prequels where, some of the finest movie actors of that generation gave some of the most wooden performances of their careers.

An interesting observation; bad movies made largely using traditional techniques, have the blame laid at the director, the scriptwriter or the cast depending on why said film is considered rotten, the reason for a films failure is often analysed and broken down into it's component parts. However, if that film is CGI based that analysis is usually omitted and instead what is left is often nothing more than a critique that amounts to, this film is bad because it is CGI. The fact that a CGI film can be bad for the same reasons a traditional film is considered a turkey, is rarely explored

I think from the industry and critics there is an element of badmouthing CGI not because it is less creative but because it is threatening, this combined with misconceptions about computers and creativity and the critical responses that focus on CGI as the reason for turkeys has created a highly negative discourse around CGI.

Having said that, the wind is beginning to blow in a different direction, films like Life of Pi and Gravity have sought to challenge the discourse around CGI and the audience perception of what a CGI film is as far as genre and subject matter are concerned, that is grown up Oscar bait movies as opposed to blockbusters and superhero films. I think this is because the studios and those with a bit of smarts in Hollywood realise that with the changing film market films need to be made cheaper in order to make profits and sustain the industry if it is to survive, CGI is a way to do that because it can be cheaper than using real sets and locations but in order to do this they have to elevate CGI films in the minds of audiences, the promotion around Gravity is a good example of seeking to challenge the preconceptions around CGi with it's heavy emphasis on the acting and it's subsequent campaign for acting Oscar glory in the shape of Sandra Bullock.


(This post was edited by glor on Apr 18 2014, 4:33pm)


SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Apr 18 2014, 5:31pm

Post #16 of 31 (616 views)
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Wow [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been meaning to let out my feelings about digital work in film, seeing how it gets so much bad press, and in just the first paragraph you seem to have explained the situation perfectly. I look forward to reading the whole thing.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Apr 18 2014, 7:42pm

Post #17 of 31 (594 views)
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Remember TTT shot of Meduseld [In reply to] Can't Post

with Eowyn standing on the front steps with the wall of mountains off to her side? That looked so CGI to me. Could have knocked me down with a feather when I realised the mountains were real.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Starling
Half-elven


Apr 18 2014, 8:57pm

Post #18 of 31 (576 views)
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But I went there a few years ago, [In reply to] Can't Post

and discovered the mountains were just painted on a few sheets of cardboard. So disappointing. Frown


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 18 2014, 9:01pm

Post #19 of 31 (570 views)
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But.. [In reply to] Can't Post

...it was REAL cardboard!

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Starling
Half-elven


Apr 18 2014, 9:11pm

Post #20 of 31 (563 views)
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True [In reply to] Can't Post

And painted entirely by hand.


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 18 2014, 9:13pm

Post #21 of 31 (551 views)
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Soggy mountains must be a nightmare to mop up after rain. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 



Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 18 2014, 9:21pm

Post #22 of 31 (544 views)
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Soggy Mountain Breakdown / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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https://www.facebook.com/slatesforsarah


BlackFox
Half-elven


Apr 18 2014, 9:25pm

Post #23 of 31 (540 views)
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I don't like where this is going... // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau

(This post was edited by BlackFox on Apr 18 2014, 9:26pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 18 2014, 9:27pm

Post #24 of 31 (533 views)
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The Englishman Who Went Up a Hill But Came Down a Soggy Mountain. / [In reply to] Can't Post

Two threads in one day. Love it.



BlackFox
Half-elven


Apr 18 2014, 9:33pm

Post #25 of 31 (545 views)
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I can't resist... [In reply to] Can't Post

Soggyback Mountain! Evil


"Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake." - Henry David Thoreau

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