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News from Bree
spymaster@theonering.net
Mar 17 2014, 5:01pm
Post #1 of 27
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Philippa Boyens talks There and Back Again with Empire Online
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 Our good friends over at Empire Online have posted a great little story: co-writer and producer Philippa Boyens is talking Hobbit movie number three! Boyens' passion for Thorin (and for actor Richard Armitage!) is clear in her comments about the Dwarf-who-would-be-King's storyline, and she hints at the darkness to come in The Hobbit: There and Back Again. She also talks about the rift which opens up amongst the dwarves, and reminds us that Peter Jackson is hard at work even as you read this, cutting and shaping this third and final visit to Middle-earth.
Read the entire, (spoiler-free) article here.
(This post was edited by entmaiden on Mar 18 2014, 1:38am)
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tsmith675
Mithlond
Mar 17 2014, 10:16pm
Post #4 of 27
(2035 views)
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"This day we FIGHT!"
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Arannir
Doriath
Mar 17 2014, 10:45pm
Post #5 of 27
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Always good to hear from her.
I think there will be a huge pay-off for the splitting of the company... It already worked for DoS - but I agree that it adds a lot of weight to the story having some of the dwarves there.
Especially those who have not been there or born yet to witness the massacre at Erebor but who will be filled with terror, shock and mercy (towards the Lake-towners) because of the terror in Esgaroth.
The old rights and ancient feuds of Thorin and those around him against the immediate feelings of a younger generation, caught between loyalty to Thorin and the recognition of the injustice and evil that happened to the Men of the Lake.
And you also have Kili who was not only left behind for the sake of the quest but who has also experienced how wonderful and benefiting it can be to collaborate with another race - building something new instead of letting history dictate your behaviour and future.
This also adds to the drama of the last act when Fili and Kili will eventually remain loyal to their uncle in battle and die for it.
This struggle of quest/history/destiny vs. new ways/collaboration/insight will help massively to bring the story of the company to an emotional fulfilling climax, add to the dwarves' characters and make for very good storytelling.
“All good stories deserve embellishment."
Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."
(This post was edited by Arannir on Mar 17 2014, 10:47pm)
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ShireHorse
Nargothrond
Mar 17 2014, 11:42pm
Post #7 of 27
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I don't quite understand the eye-rolling on this page
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except that some people have got the knives out - unfairly - for PB. I agree with both her and Arannir that, by splitting the dwarves, some interesting responses and situations have been created.
And it's interesting to know that PJ has sort of got the last film together, at least in outline, and that we are definitely going to see Thorin descend into madness.
And, finally, I'm sure she's right: what happens to Thorin in this film is not only central to the whole plot, but we are likely to get a performance that's really worth watching from RA.
What has she said that is so unacceptable or so awful? Or have I misunderstood the reactions of some posters?
(This post was edited by ShireHorse on Mar 17 2014, 11:44pm)
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QuackingTroll
Doriath
Mar 17 2014, 11:44pm
Post #8 of 27
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Just referring to the comments at the bottom of the article. People knocking the film for no reason.
I'm not a huge fan of the direction these films have taken, but I don't go out of my way to throw it in people's faces at every chance. Just wish they'd take their opinions somewhere more relevant, like IMdB or Rotten Tomatoes.
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QuackingTroll
Doriath
Mar 17 2014, 11:54pm
Post #9 of 27
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PJ has the film together in outline?!
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I remember a quote in the Rhythm and Hues documentary "Life after Pi" someone said that directors often shoot films before they have any idea of how the third act will play out. I found this interesting because surely the third act is often the most important part of the story?
It's interesting that even with all the planning, writing, pre-production, storyboards and pre-viz, plus the production stage its self, that there's still some uncertainty on the third film! How is it not written in stone by now?? I wonder how many directors work like this or whether it's to do with PJ changing his mind a lot or maybe it's just because the three-film split has changed so much?
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Bishop
Mithlond
Mar 18 2014, 12:05am
Post #10 of 27
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I take this to mean there will be Dwarves on both sides of the inevitable confrontation between Thorin and co and everyone else.
Bofur (James Nesbitt) comes more into his own in the third film. A rift
begins to open up. And I can’t say much more without going into spoilers
for film three
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tsmith675
Mithlond
Mar 18 2014, 12:22am
Post #11 of 27
(1899 views)
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Yeah, sorry I had no idea what you were talking about 
"This day we FIGHT!"
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Ham_Sammy
Dor-Lomin
Mar 18 2014, 1:03am
Post #12 of 27
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Interesting. Should be interesting to see how that plays out.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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sycorax82
Nargothrond
Mar 18 2014, 1:03am
Post #13 of 27
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My guess is Bofur refuses to rejoin Thorin after seeing the horror of Smaug
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Knowing Thorin unleashed Smaug on Laketown, resulting in such devastation and loss of life, Bofur will turn away from his leader and join the people of the lake.
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QuackingTroll
Doriath
Mar 18 2014, 1:13am
Post #14 of 27
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"One of the storylines I care a lot about is the Thorin one"
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Glad they haven't cut the Thorin one out. Seems Boyens is fond of that.
Now I'm just hoping for confirmation on the Bilbo storyline, because that's my favourite. 
Have I misread something?
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Mar 18 2014, 1:29am
Post #15 of 27
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maybe it's just because the three-film split has changed so much?
... but I think it has more to do with PJ's directing style - he likes to create his film in the editing suite as much (if not more so) than on the script.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
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Mar 18 2014, 3:32am
Post #16 of 27
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Remember that originally in RotK
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Aragorn was to fight Sauron in a kind of Annatar guise, and that was filmed - but PJ decided against that after seeing the rough cut as a whole, and so the large troll was substituted in the fight.
These films have been very "organic", creating themselves almost; so it could very well be that he didn't expect to know exactly how certain things would finally play out, until he could see it start coming together. Much like an author writing a book, and thinking they know how the plot will go, then something unexpected interferes...
Hm, like how Tolkien wrote his books, maybe? 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
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Mar 18 2014, 6:09am
Post #18 of 27
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Yes, I don't think it's at all unusual.
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I think they shoot enough to go in several different directions and then find the story that "works" best when they start editing. I don't think it's unique to PJ; I've watched enough documentaries and commentaries on other movies to know that a script as shot is nearly always much longer than a finished film and that directors often change things in large and small ways when they start the editing process. I remember watching a commentary once in which someone kept marveling at the way that director wrote the script and shot very tight to it (sorry I can't remember what/who at this point) and how unusual it was.
We're just getting a lot more insight into the process than most fans get. After all, how many movies do we all watch the progress of this closely? Most films you go and see them once they're done and never hear much at all about how they were made. It's easy to worry about this sort of thing when you're so invested in the final product, but the truth is that most of us aren't actually that familiar with the process of putting together a film and our impressions of how it works from publicity materials are often greatly simplified from the reality. I know I've learned a huge amount about the process of making movies from following LOTR and TH, and mainly because these filmmakers have been much more willing than most to give insight into the process.
Silverlode
"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dûm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Mar 18 2014, 6:45am
Post #19 of 27
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I know I've learned a huge amount about the process of making movies from following LOTR and TH, and mainly because these filmmakers have been much more willing than most to give insight into the process.
The mysteries of making a film became a lot clearer to me from the first behind-the-scenes appendices in FOTR - and that it's a lot more demanding and complex than I had thought.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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dormouse
Gondolin
Mar 18 2014, 8:10am
Post #20 of 27
(1649 views)
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Not so surprising as you might think....
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The same happens with writing a book - or painting a picture. You may know where it's going. You may know what you want to achieve, starting out. You may make a detailed plan - and if you're writing a book, for example, or planning a film, you may have to come up with a detailed plan to submit to someone else.
But how it comes together, and the links and threads and ideas that take shape in your mind when you're working on the thing - those you can't predict. And those are often the best parts.
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SafeUnderHill
Nargothrond
Mar 18 2014, 10:56am
Post #21 of 27
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That is because he is still editing it.
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Of course they know what is going to happen and how the film will be structured but since it is being edited, it is not yet complete. And he has the freedom to change things in the editing suite to make the best film he can.
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Shagrat
Mithlond
Mar 18 2014, 11:10am
Post #22 of 27
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Freeman has confirmed that Bofur is in Erebor the night before the battle, and offers him the chance to slip away. It seems it is he who will be on guard duty, nicely mirroring their scene in AUJ.
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Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Mar 18 2014, 1:57pm
Post #23 of 27
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Boyens stated: "Bofur (James Nesbitt) comes more into his own in the third film. A rift begins to open up. And I can’t say much more without going into spoilers for film three, but it’s primarily because we needed him to be there when the dragon attacks."
That is slightly ironic since the only reason why Bofur was left behind was that James Nesbitt had to take some time off to fulfill another obligation and wouldn't be available for the Erebor sequences in DoS.
This does echo the events of the book, if not for the exact same reasons:
Then Bilbo longed to escape from the dark fortress and to go down and join in the mirth and feasting by the fires. Some of the younger dwarves were moved in their hearts, too, and they muttered that they wished things had fallen out otherwise and that they might welcome such folk as friends; but Thorin scowled.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Mar 18 2014, 8:51pm
Post #24 of 27
(1428 views)
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Alfred Hitchcock, John Ford, Jean-Luc Godard, and Guillermo del Toro are known for "editing in the camera".
There are two main reasons for doing so.
First, before digital video studios loved it because expensive film stock wasn't wasted.
Second, directors loved it because there wouldn't be any leftover shots so studio hacks couldn't decide to reedit their film.
Of course, nowadays we fans definitely wouldn't like it because there wouldn't be any leftover shots for an Extended Edition.
******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.
Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?
So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Mar 18 2014, 8:56pm
Post #25 of 27
(1438 views)
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Tolkien did the same with LOTR.
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He was still revising it right up until the time it went to the printers.
As someone once said, "Art is never finished, only abandoned."
******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.
Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?
So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.
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