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Anduneglin
Registered User
Feb 1 2008, 11:50pm
Post #1 of 17
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Second Hobbit Movie Query
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Ok, so I haven't posted here for, well, about 5 years (except once), but it seems time to once again consult the great breadth of knowledge and even greater speculative ability present here.
I looked through some threads, but couldn't find much of what people think the second "Hobbit" movie will be about. This is undoubtedly due to my lack of TORn investigative proficiency.
However, it seems to me that, if one movie will be "The Hobbit," and a second the time "between" that and LotR, the second will need some, well, DRAMA: something a bit more tittilating than Bilbo's repeated close encounters with the S-Bs and Aragorn's looking for Gollum, and looking for him some more, and a bit more, and then for several more years, and then, hey, at the end, FINDING him. And then the woodelves losing him. Bummer. And Gandalf sort-of suspecting that Bilbo found the One Ring, but waiting until LotR to actually do some research on it in Gondor.
Any thoughts?
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Eledhwen
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 2 2008, 12:51am
Post #2 of 17
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Young Aragorn, serving in Rohan and Gondor and defeating the Corsairs of Umbar, and going South. But I can't imagine being that lucky.
The New Zealand Christmas tree, the pohutukawa; Wellington, December 2007
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Annael
Elvenhome
Feb 2 2008, 1:15am
Post #3 of 17
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and how he and Arwen fell in love.
I'd also like to see the White Council in action - driving the Enemy out of Dol Guldur, debating the One Ring, etc.
.We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are.
- Anais Nin
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
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squire
Gondolin
Feb 2 2008, 1:48am
Post #4 of 17
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You're right. No one knows what it will be "about". A dramatic standalone storyline is essential, but one sufficient to drive an entire feature film does not exist in Tolkien's writings on the years between Bilbo's return and the Long-expected Party.
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the current consensus is that whatever the second movie is, it will be a $150 million fan fiction.
GDT: Hey, Pete!
PJ: Will, how’s it going, man? Script booming along, is it?
GDT: Problemo, Peter. This second movie doesn’t make sense to me the way you’ve blocked it out.
PJ: What’s wrong?
GDT: Well, there’s no center. Who’s it about? I can’t tell if Aragorn, or Bilbo, or Balin, or Gandalf, or Gollum, or you know, Sauron the, the, um, Necromancer is the main character. The thing just bounces around between them all.
PJ: Yeah, sure! That’s on purpose: it’s an ensemble gig, like Crash or Babel. Right? Fran calls it “interlacing”. It fills in all the gaps.
GDT: Gaps? We’re spending 150 million on filling up gaps? Jeez, if there’s this many gaps between the Hobbit and your films, maybe we’d be better off ignoring them. Who the hell cares about gaps between two movies that take place what, eighty years apart? With a classic character like Bilbo and that creepy talking Ring as the link? Isn’t that enough?
PJ: What, so make the Hobbit as two films? We thought about it. I’m not crazy about it, not at all. It makes The Hobbit two-thirds as big as Lord of the Rings. We can’t have that – it’s not that big a story.
GDT: Well, where’s this quote, bridge, unquote idea come from?
PJ: The Appendices, man! Check them out! They’re cool – full of stuff about what happens in Middle-earth before Bilbo’s party. And, don’t forget – it’s all we have the rights to, ‘cause they’re at the end of the third book and got included in the original sale by Tolkien.
GDT: You actually read them? I can’t even get past that Bombazine guy. You’re good!
PJ: Well, no. Not a lot of them. Or any, really. Ah, no I haven’t, Will, to be honest. But Fran did once, and Phil swears by them. And my script-writing ladies are good at this stuff, you know – ask Oscar! Ha Ha!
GDT: Ha ha! Got it, Pete! OK, so, you have no idea.
PJ: None whatever. Phil and Fran are on it, though.
GDT: Let me know when I can breathe again. Make it soon, buddy. Bilbo, I can handle. "Greatest Hits from the Tale of Years" - I can't.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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Anduneglin
Registered User
Feb 2 2008, 2:35am
Post #5 of 17
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Nice to re-make your acquaintance, Annael.
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It's been a while.
And I hope that's right as well.
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Annael
Elvenhome
Feb 2 2008, 3:29am
Post #7 of 17
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Nice when oldtimers come back after an absence.
.We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are.
- Anais Nin
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Feb 2 2008, 3:30am
Post #8 of 17
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There are ooodles of possibilities. It would make sense they'd have a bit at the beginning to remind us of (or continue) Bilbo's return and life in Hobbiton.
We have Balin and Gandalf visiting from time-to-time... maybe spawning Balin's desire to return to Moria; which would tie in LotR:FotR.
Future leaders being born or coming into power: Denethor (see why he behaves as he does with his sons and Gondor) - Theoden (story of Eowyn/Eomer/Grima and seeing how Grima comes under the influence of Saruman)
Story of Saruman turning from White Council leader to full-blown lust for the Ring and manipulating others as he begins his own little Quest.
Story of Drogo/Primula/Bilbo/Frodo and how Bilbo came to adopt a very young Frodo (ending at the end of the film with Frodo heading out to the woods with a book for a quiet read whilst Bilbo deals with party preparations).
The story of Arathorn/Gilraen/Aragorn and coming to Rivendell.
Gandalf and Aragorn meeting.
Aragorn and Arwen meeting.
Legolas growing and becoming ambassador for Thranduil and Mirkwood.
Gimli insisting on travelling to Rivendell with Gloin.
Balin in Moria.
A young Sam coming to work the gardens of Bag End with his Gaffer and meeting Frodo... and eventually hooking up with Pippin and Merry. Oooo, there's young Rosie walking with her gammer again!
There are lots and lots of storylines that intersect and lead us to the events of FotR. I think one of the most dramatic plots could be Saruman's betrayal and his influence on Rohan through Grima. Then there's Gollum seeking the Bagginses. There'd have to be choices made of which plots to follow and craftiness on pulling them together; but I'd like to see the last part of film 2 show how events lead up to the doings of Rohan, Gondor, Rivendell, Lothlorien, Isengard... all the places and events we visit in FotR, TTT, & RotK :)
 
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
TORn's Observations Lists
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Finding Frodo
Dor-Lomin
Feb 2 2008, 3:42am
Post #9 of 17
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I'd most like to see just one Hobbit movie, but to answer your question, I think it would make the most sense to see Aragorn's development. We could see him as a baby, see Arathorn's death and Gilraen fleeing to Rivendell (or was she already there? Too lazy to look.) Anyway, we could see some of his upbringing in Rivendell, particularly his meeting Arwen. It would be great if we saw young Aragorn reading a book or hearing a performance of the tale of Tinúviel. The film-makers could show the story coming alive in a vision, as songs do in Rivendell, and
Lúthien could be played by Liv Tyler so we can see the resemblence. Elrond could see the vision too, and seeing how painful it was for Lúthien's people to lose her to Beren and mortal life could be his motivation for forbidding the marriage at that time. So Aragorn goes out to prove himself, but I don't think we need to see all the adventures of Thorongil. I think the story would lose focus.
Somewhere in there, Bilbo could make a trip to Rivendell with Gandalf or even Balin as a companion, and he could meet young Aragorn. Aunt Dora Baggins wrote a nice fanfic on that topic.
Welcome back to TORn! I don't recognize your nick, but I hope you stick around this time.
Where's Frodo?
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ArathornJax
Nargothrond
Feb 2 2008, 5:19am
Post #10 of 17
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I stated this in another thread but I see the second film as being centered around a central theme, from which the other themes or sub-plots move around. In LOTR we saw the central theme being the destruction of the ring, and all the sub-plots connected back to that.
So for The Hobbit II (whatever it is called), I see as the central theme The Hunt for the Ring. I say this because Sauron begins to seek for the ring as does Saurman (we could see Saruman turning toward evil, and being captured by Sauron via the palantir). Gollum comes out of the Misty Mountains to seek for it and as a result is captured, tortured etc. You could see Aragorn serving Thengel and Ecthelion II and you could see Denethor's jealousy of Aragorn. Thus you would have Aragorn meeting Arwen in Lothlorien, and from there you could have him and Gandalf search out for Gollum. After Gollum's capture you would have him taken by Aragorn to Mirkwood and there he meets up with Legolos and the Wood Elves. Oh, and I forgot in there, you have Balin's foray into Moria and you could show the end of that effort.
Finally, you have the Shire. I think there you would show Bilbo adopting Frodo and the buildup of that relationship. More importantly you could show Bilbo changing over time as the ring begin to wears on him (ie avoiding the Sackville-B's, his ventures into the Shire). I also think you could show the Dunedan Rangers protecting the Shire. I also forgot to mention you would of course have Saruman investigating the Gladden Fields, and then the Black Riders searching the area of the Anduin. And of course you have the growing conflict in Gondor and in Ithilien and you could bring in both Faramir and Boromir.
Whether it is that, or something else, the movie will have a central theme, and everything will move away from there. I will also say here that I think Hobbits will be less involved in the second film, and we'll see more of Middle Earth and the other people who live there.
Let us then be up and doing
With a heart for any fate;
Still achieving, still pursuing,
Learn to labor and to wait.
H.W. Longfellow
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Finding Frodo
Dor-Lomin
Feb 2 2008, 5:40am
Post #11 of 17
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I wouldn't want too many sub-plots, though. I would say - Gollum hunts for the Ring while being hunted by Gandalf and Aragorn
- Saruman hunts for the Ring while deceiving the White Council
- Sauron hunts for the Ring while growing in power
I don't see room for Aragorn doing too terribly much else there except helping Gandalf hunt for Gollum.
Where's Frodo?
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Ainu Laire
Dor-Lomin
Feb 2 2008, 6:06am
Post #13 of 17
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The fan girl in me is screaming "Aragorn" and everything about him.
The realist in me- when thinking about a plot to connect them altogether- is thinking Dol Guldur. This will make die-hard fans burst a vessel, but one thing I'm thinking that *may* work is putting many of the major events in this 80 year time period (Aragorn-Gollum, Aragorn-Arwen, the White Council, going after the Necromancer and discovering he's Sauron) into a much shorter period of time- something that would fit a 3 hour movie.
Like, what I'm imagining is that the movie opens with the White Council (it can be the first one, the second one, or a combination of both- or you could have both councils in the movie at different scenes, having them happen months apart instead of, like, 13 years apart), and they discuss the Necromancer (mentioned in The Hobbit, of course) and Dol Guldur, and perhaps even the One Ring and what may have happened to it.
After Council, Gandalf talks with Elrond about Aragorn, who he just saw in Gondor a few months back. Maybe talks about Arwen. Talks about the preparation of an attack on Umbar...
Then we see Thorongil decking it out on havens of Umbar, killing and burning things and all that fun stuff. He leaves Gondor, goes a long way to Lorien, meets Arwen, yada yada yada.
Gandalf, in the meanwhile, goes to Thranduil's place. Talks about Dol Guldur, and theennn talks about Gollum, asking for the king to let him keep the creature there. King is cool with it, Gandalf high tails it out of there.
Meets with Aragorn at some time, they go hunt Gollum for however long (or maybe only Aragorn does), Aragorn finds him, brings him to Mirkwood, maybe on the way sees, I dunno, Bad Stuff happening in the area around Dol Guldur. And to tie it in further, maybe Gollum knows something about the place that no one else knows *shrugs* Also, after Aragorn brings Gollum to Mirkwood, he can also escape in the film. Covering up for it being left out in FOTR.
And the big battle is, of course, storming Dol Guldur, finding that Sauron is the Necromancer, and basically doing what Lorien is supposed to be doing in the War of the Ring but, well, doesn't.
Very sketchy, but something like that could work. Maybe. You know, there is a reason why I am not a script writer...
Gah, I hope they do a decent job on the second film.
My LJ
My art site
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Feb 2 2008, 6:47am
Post #14 of 17
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Aragorn must be involved, but he cannot be central. Not for a bridge film. Gandalf and The Council are more important
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A similar thread, centering on Throngil appeared on the Hobbit blog. I responded thus, and stand by it:
This is a bridge to LOTR, especially to FOTR, not Aragorn's Tale. ROTK is a third of focus on Aragorn. This film should give him no more than a fourth of its focus. His youth in Rivendell, meeting with Gandalf and with Arwen, and of course his hunt for Gollum need to be in.
But if it comes to a choice between Aragorn serving Ecthellion, and Gandalf invading Dol Guldur or battling the Nine. . . Gandalf and his espionage on The Necromancer win hands down. Besides being more dramatic and cinematic, it is also FAR more relevant to the overall story. If it comes to a choice between Aragorn at the side of Thengel or Theoden, and The White Council waging war on Dol Guldur, or meeting to discuss The Great Rings. . . or even between an Aragorn/Thengel moment and seeing Balin's company laid to waste by the power and sorcery of The Balrog, Durin's Bane of old. . . I am going for the Council and for Balin and The Balrog.
Aragorn should definitely factor into the bridge film, but it should NOT be his story, otherwise it won't be much of a bridging film at all. We should not get so caugt up in the hero worship of Aragorn that we miss the central plot purpose. This is a chapter in the history of The War of The Ring, not the history of the kings of Arnor and Gondor.
I know I have a Gandalf Bias, but he and the council should be central. Without The Council, and especially without the ceaseless vigilance of Gandalf, Sauron would have almost certainly reclaimed his ring before anyone, including Aragorn, truly realized he was even actively searching for it. He would likely have unleashed Smaug on Rivendell, and very possibly A Balrog on Lorien, for it is dubious if even the White Ring and its Lady could have stood against a Demon of Might with Nazgul in his train. His sorcery was nearly a match for Gandalf's (see the chamber door of Marzabul) and the Balrogs were notorios slayers of even the High Elven Princes and Chieftans. "Of all Elf Banes most deadly. . ." Anyway, that is a whole other topic. The main thing is, Aragorn should not be the main character of the bridge. A major character but not the main one. . . umm, and I will NEED to see GLORFINDEL.
To quote some kid from Mad Max Beyon Thunderdome ( the one in which Tina Turner did such fascinating work), "This ain't one body's tale, its the tale of us all. Aragorn as Middle Earth's Anakin. . . more pivotal than Frodo? More consequential to the War of The Ring than Gandalf? Just because he is the future king of Arnor and Gondor?
No. To quote Gandalf, "You think, as is your wont, my lord, of Gondor only. Yet there are other men, and other lives, and times yet to be, and for me, I pity even his (Sauron's) slaves. . . I will say this. That the rule of no realm is mine, neither of Gondor nor any other, great or small. But ALL THINGS THAT ARE IN PERIL AS THE WORLD NOW STANDS, THOSE ARE MY CARE. AND FOR MY PART, I WILL NOT WHOLLY FAIL OF MY TASK, THOUGH GONDOR SHOULD PERISH, IF ANYTHING PASSES THROUGH THIS NIGHT THAT CAN STILL GROW FAIR, OR BEAR FRUIT AND FLOWER AGAIN IN DAYS TO COME. FOR I ALSO AM A STEWARD. DID YOU NOT KNOW?"
The purpose of this film is to provide relevant back story, and to link The Hobbit with LOTR in a meanigful way. Aragorn has a role, but not THE ROLE. To put him at the center of all the counseling, planning and action would be either a distraction or a lie.
"These things," said Elrond, "It is the part of Gandalf to make clear. And I call upon him last. For it is the place of honour. And, in all this matter, he has been the chief." "ANd I would have Mithrandir place it (the crown) upon my head. For he has been the mover of all that has been accomplished, and this is his victory." With all that considered, how can a plot adjoiner between The Hobbit and Fellowship put heavier focus on Aragorn than on Gandalf, or those who posed the most significant direct opposition to Sauron?
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Ainu Laire
Dor-Lomin
Feb 2 2008, 8:46am
Post #15 of 17
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It's late and I got caught up in hero worship again. I defintely don't think it should star him, though I think he would play a rather large role, nonetheless. Gandalf is definitely someone I imagine starring. But my history concerning him is sketchy compared to Aragorn's, thus why my musings were, well, more Aragorn-centered. Sorry if that was misleading.
My LJ
My art site
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
Feb 2 2008, 10:37am
Post #16 of 17
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He's probably pretty darn close
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to the truth right now. I love it!!
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
TORn's Observations Lists
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AinurOlorin
Gondolin
Feb 3 2008, 8:15am
Post #17 of 17
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My post was only technically a reply to yours, fellow Ainu
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Actually, I thought your post just ahead of mine was actually one that helped bring some of those love struck over Aragorn, either as a heartthrob or as an action hero, back to reality about what the content of a BRIDGE film would probably need to be. lol. SO not really a criticism or rebuttal at all to you. 
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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