|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
a.s.
Doriath
Feb 1 2008, 11:03pm
Post #76 of 132
(869 views)
Shortcut
|
Sends alert to family to lock up the steak knives.
Many of us have been attempting to send you some subtle messages that you are offending many people here. But you seem to be missing the subtlety, so let's be blunt:
You are offending many people here.
No one will mind a bit if you express your opinion about the movies and/or director and/or book and or anything. It's not about PJ worship.
Watch:
I dislike one decision PJ made in the films, and that is the change to Faramir's character. While I understand that film is a different medium and there was a need to move the Ring along in the story, I deeply resent that particular change.
That was opinion.
Now, watch this:
PJ is the most arogant and stupid movie director I've seen in a long time. He knows nothing about the books at all and anyone who thinks he's a great director is really full of stuff and obviously has not read the books. I mean, look what he did to Faramir, and as any idiot knows, Faramir is a good guy all along. I read the books, so I know. Anyone disagreeing with me is not a real Tolkien fan.
That was insult.
Try to see the difference. Because I for one am feeling like I can't even read these threads anymore, and you know what? I resent that! I missed all the excitement and hype and questions and new posts and glugs and repeated "information" the first time around and I want to participate this time around in some innocent fun and squeeing, frankly. And you are spoiling that fun.
A great many of us (including the actual published Tolkien scholars we have among us, whose forbearance has been charming to see) have kept our temper through the last several days with you and your insults to us (and our sibs, whom we love even when we disagree with them). I have just lost mine, for which I apologize. But only to a certain extent. Let me just say I apologize to the rest of those reading this rant.
But you need to back off if you really want to be part of our community--our family, really--because we have an understanding here about polite argument. There is a difference between stating your opinion and insulting people, and you have stepped over the line. Please stop. You are not some poor picked on, misunderstood, innocent poster. You are intentionally insulting us and then whining about being misunderstood when called on the carpet about it.
We're a pretty smart bunch, actually, despite your obvious disdain. We can tell an insult from an opinion. Those of us who have read the books for decades have somehow (to this point) found a way to discuss the movies sanely and politely with those who have never read them! Imagine that.
And take a clue. Please.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
"And we must all bring Provisions."
"Bring what ?"
"Things to eat."
"Oh!" said Pooh happily. "I thought you said Provisions.
I'll go and tell them." And he stumped off.
|
|
|
Tim
Dor-Lomin
Feb 1 2008, 11:07pm
Post #77 of 132
(829 views)
Shortcut
|
"Sir are you classified as human?"
"Negative! I am a meat popsicle!"
|
|
|
Annael
Elvenhome
Feb 1 2008, 11:08pm
Post #78 of 132
(823 views)
Shortcut
|
I was one of the founders of the Reading Room, and for a couple of years I was very active in it. And then - I'd kinda said all I had to say. I still lurk there, because occasionally someone new says something I haven't thought of or encountered before. But mostly I hang out on Off Topic with a few ventures into Main and Movie from time to time, because after 8-1/2 years here it's the community that keeps me coming back. If you assume from my posts that I do not measure up to your idea of a serious Tolkien fan, however, you would be seriously mistaken. I first read the books in 1967 and I lost count of how many times I have read them somewhere after the 50th reading. I have two shelves of books by and about Tolkien (including a first-edition Silmarillion which I bought the second it came out, having eagerly awaited it for a decade) and have published an essay on the mythic themes in LOTR.
As for PJ-worshipping, there may be a handful of people here who qualify as such, but the vast majority would agree with you that the films were good but not perfect. I for one didn't mind Arwen having a bigger role, but there's a lot I didn't like - all the "cliffhanger" stuff that PJ added, nuclear Galadriel, the wargs, the pile of skulls - and what happened to Gandalf in the third film, all full of doubts and fear? That wasn't my Gandalf!
I think what people are reacting to isn't your opinion as such, but the implication that you are somehow a "better" fan than most of the people here. Remember we're all weirdos to the people out in the real world; we don't need to be insulting each other here in our sanctuary.
.We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are.
- Anais Nin
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
(This post was edited by Annael on Feb 1 2008, 11:09pm)
|
|
|
entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 1 2008, 11:24pm
Post #79 of 132
(829 views)
Shortcut
|
|
One comment about your excellent post
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Before the first set of movies came out, there was a lot of squeeing, but mixed in with that there was an equal amount of projectile vomiting and stomach distress at how Peter was going to/actually did ruin the movies. There were lots of accusations from the supposed "real fans" that the rest of us "worshippers" weren't smart enough or discerning enough to realize that the movies were crap. There was a lot of "you folks" and "you people" finger-pointing - actually from all sides. The narrow-minded book purists were just as condescending then as they are now (I'm not including all book purists in that comment, just the ones who think they're the only ones who are right). We had the same single-track posters, who pounded us with their particular agendas in every post, proclaiming their credentials over and over again.
I wasn't here in the days before the movies, but I was here right after they were released. There were equal amounts of exhiliration and disgust, and a lot of shouting back and forth. What we're seeing now is the same we saw then - the names are just slightly changed.
So don't let all of this get you down. It's part of the fun, and one day you'll look back on these days with nostalgia.  At least with the Hobbit movies, we've got smilies. 
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
|
|
|
Darkstone
Elvenhome
Feb 1 2008, 11:24pm
Post #80 of 132
(832 views)
Shortcut
|
At least not on your part.
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Feb 1 2008, 11:28pm)
|
|
|
L. Ron Halfelven
Hithlum
Feb 1 2008, 11:29pm
Post #81 of 132
(795 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Heck, Don Rickles would have made the point more tactfully./
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I don't want to go to work today,
But the master of the whip says nay, nay, nay.
|
|
|
a.s.
Doriath
Feb 1 2008, 11:30pm
Post #82 of 132
(842 views)
Shortcut
|
|
good grounding in reality!! not to mention
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
the reminder that I have smilies on my side.
LOL
a.s.
"an seileachan"
"And we must all bring Provisions."
"Bring what ?"
"Things to eat."
"Oh!" said Pooh happily. "I thought you said Provisions.
I'll go and tell them." And he stumped off.
|
|
|
Tolkien Forever
Mithlond
Feb 1 2008, 11:41pm
Post #83 of 132
(828 views)
Shortcut
|
My God, A.S, (and others) You are so offended over such insignifigant, trivial things as MY
(or anyones) opinions?
You are going to have a very unhappy life if what others think effects you so much - you can't control their thoughts or words although the 'tolerance police' certainly are trying very hard these days - sadly.
This 'discussion' is quite pointless & going in circles. Flame away, I'm outa this thread for good.
Again, Peace (really), TF
|
|
|
entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 1 2008, 11:44pm
Post #84 of 132
(820 views)
Shortcut
|
about the members who loudly announced their departure. They often came back, but they made sure we knew it was ALL OUR FAULT. 
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
|
|
|
a.s.
Doriath
Feb 1 2008, 11:48pm
Post #85 of 132
(807 views)
Shortcut
|
Just in case.
LOL
a.s.
"an seileachan"
"And we must all bring Provisions."
"Bring what ?"
"Things to eat."
"Oh!" said Pooh happily. "I thought you said Provisions.
I'll go and tell them." And he stumped off.
|
|
|
Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 1 2008, 11:50pm
Post #86 of 132
(819 views)
Shortcut
|
if you're a jerk, you're no fun! Our goal here isn't to plug our own opinions and ignore everyone else's, but rather to enjoy hanging out and talking with others who have a shared passion but widely differing perspectives on it.
We make a habit of being civil to each other. There's every kind of fan here, book fans and movie fans and everything in between. Some have been here years, some only hours. And they all deserve your courtesy, even when you find them exasperating. Some of them may find you equally exasperating! It usually cuts both ways. We survive each other by treating all opinions with at least a form of politeness, even when we think they're utter nonsense...which we either point out with reason and as much patience as we can muster, or by hijacking the thread into total absurdity (a favorite TORn tradition).   But not by personal attacks.
A word to the wise: You cannot demand that people laugh, or demand a certain reaction from them. If you meant a comment to be amusing but it wasn't taken that way, it is wise to apologize and attempt to clarify. This makes it much more likely that they'll understand you and laugh next time. Telling them to just get over it never works.
Bear with us, and we'll bear with you.
Silverlode
"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you." -On Fairy Stories
|
|
|
Tim
Dor-Lomin
Feb 1 2008, 11:54pm
Post #87 of 132
(837 views)
Shortcut
|
I've been on snarky forums, and this is in no way a snarky forum. These have to be the politest people I've run into in a long time.
Why are you leaving, are you letting other people's opinions offend you? Where's your tolerance for our opinion? Did you become unhappy because of what we thought effected you?
People here respect your opinion, they just don't want you to be rude about it.
My God, A.S, (and others) You are so offended over such insignifigant, trivial things as MY
(or anyones) opinions?
You are going to have a very unhappy life if what others think effects you so much - you can't control their thoughts or words although the 'tolerance police' certainly are trying very hard these days - sadly.
This 'discussion' is quite pointless & going in circles. Flame away, I'm outa this thread for good.
Again, Peace (really), TF
"Sir are you classified as human?"
"Negative! I am a meat popsicle!"
|
|
|
Smaug_The_Magnificent
Lindon
Feb 2 2008, 12:08am
Post #88 of 132
(816 views)
Shortcut
|
Now now people, I'm all for discussion, but this is taking it a bit far. Whether you like or dislike PJ, it doesn't matter to me. I was only pointing out how sad I was that PJ wouldn't be directing these new films, and how sad I was that it didn't appear he'd have much creative control. Thanks to all of you who gave me some comforting words, but for the rest of you who seemed to have turned this into a war of words, perhaps because of your passion for the books and or films. Let's please draw a line under this now and try to get along, after all we're all after the same thing... a good representation of The Hobbit in film form!!! At the end of the day, we wouldn't even be discussing this if PJ hadn't made The Lord Of The Rings would we?!
I really don't want to have to ask admin to close this thread!!!
Many thanks.
Smaug 
|
|
|
MrCere
Sr. Staff
Feb 2 2008, 12:09am
Post #89 of 132
(789 views)
Shortcut
|
|
A lot more could be said, but I will refrain {NT}
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
|
|
|
Tim
Dor-Lomin
Feb 2 2008, 12:34am
Post #90 of 132
(786 views)
Shortcut
|
Both New Line and MGM will have a huge investment in The Hobbit and the other movie. That's why PJ's lawsuit was settled, PJ was awarded a nice chunk of change, and PJ was given the creative reigns. Both New Line and MGM are making sure, and will make sure that PJ is involved so that their dollars will be fruitful and multiply.
At the end of the day, we wouldn't even be discussing this if PJ hadn't made The Lord Of The Rings would we?!
"Sir are you classified as human?"
"Negative! I am a meat popsicle!"
|
|
|
Annael
Elvenhome
Feb 2 2008, 1:17am
Post #91 of 132
(797 views)
Shortcut
|
|
where is Finglas when we need him?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Advising those leaving in a huff not to let the door . . .
.We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are.
- Anais Nin
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
|
|
|
Annael
Elvenhome
Feb 2 2008, 1:23am
Post #92 of 132
(791 views)
Shortcut
|
when someone says "that's the way I feel."
I'm only offended when they say "you're stupid if you don't feel the same way."
.We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are.
- Anais Nin
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
|
|
|
Altaira
Superuser
Feb 2 2008, 3:58am
Post #93 of 132
(773 views)
Shortcut
|
I'm sure he's lurking in the wings. Just in case.
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
TORn Calendar
|
|
|
Altaira
Superuser
Feb 2 2008, 4:37am
Post #94 of 132
(775 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I want to make it very clear that people who haven't read the books are welcome here!
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Tolkien Forever: One more reason I say I suspect SOME people haven't read the books is because of the threads they post or comments they make on threads,
Like you've said... why in the world does it matter to you that "SOME" people *gasp* haven't read the books!? This site welcomes all fans of The Lord of the Rings, whether they're movie-only fans, long-time readers or "serious" scholars. Even if they've never seen the movies or read the books are are just now inquiring about Tolkien, PJ, or are even new Del Toro fans, etc. they're welcome here! The beauty of this site is that (almost) everyone here seem quite capable of welcoming and embracing them very graciously.
If the posts on Main and Movie bother you so much, why on earth are you spending all your time there? Main and Movie are not meant to cater to people who consider themselves book-only scholars and purists. That's why we have an assortment of different boards. Surely that's become obvious to you by now. Get thee over to the Reading Room where you'll be much more comfortable with your self-imposed desire of a certain "Tolkien I.Q." Of course, if you insist on upholding a certain level of scholarly discourse in threads you start there, you may, in turn, be held to a very high bar.
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
TORn Calendar
(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 2 2008, 4:49am)
|
|
|
Finding Frodo
Dor-Lomin
Feb 2 2008, 4:41am
Post #95 of 132
(769 views)
Shortcut
|
I hope the Morris dancing has become more pleasant again, since you referred to the complainer in the past tense.
Excellent post.
Where's Frodo?
|
|
|
Magpie
Elvenhome
Feb 2 2008, 6:27am
Post #96 of 132
(753 views)
Shortcut
|
the Morris dancing is past tense for me (for the malcontent as well.. he moved on after I did).
I left Morris dancing the summer I found Tolkien. It was a good trade, all in all.
|
|
|
Sunflower
Doriath
Feb 2 2008, 6:58am
Post #97 of 132
(764 views)
Shortcut
|
If YOU had read "The Godfather", TF, you would know that it's spelled Sollozzo, not "Solatzo." Maybe you oughta check it out of the library sometime.
I read just about every thing that Tolkien wrote way back in the 80's, TF. Yet I LOVE the movies too. I am not a total PJ-worshipper, (I had no idea just how big a role Fran played in the making of the trilogy, and I've come to appreciate her role more over the yrs, to the point where I hope she collaberates on the Hobbit script, and with Shore.
I pop up all over the Main and Movie Boards, yet I do not discuss the Books in the Reading Room...can it POSSIBLY be because I am busy and have a limited amount of time on the Internet, hence I must pick and choose what I discuss, and prefer to talk in areas where there is constantly shifting news? .) Did THAT ever occur to you? Or must we show out slavish devotion to The Author in the Book areas ONLY? NE Brigand is a both Reading Room founder and one of the PJ skeptics, and has admitted to only seeing the films ONCE< and the EE's NEVER, yet he has learned to respect the Movie lovers. he posts in the Movie boards too.
Finally, I'll remind you that you forget just how much Spielberg was HATED by the Academy and critics until Schindler's List. I sometimes think that he made that movie deliberately b./c he thought that making a Holocaust epic would be the only way he could FINALLY get some respect. And it worked. I can't tell you how ANGRY it made me to read critical reaction to SL and all the media seemed to be saying, FIRST SENTENCE OF REVIEW' "Steven Spielberg has grown up." Hm, he seemed like an adult to me.... Not bad for a guy whose name in German means "Play Mountain" (hence the mashed potatoes in Close Encounters.) Many people would have said he was overrated before ET (me not one of them), but he wasn't perfect. As for Lucas, there is a widely accepted belief even among his biggest fans that he just CANNOT write a decent script to save his life. He has admitted that he is a lazy writer. (Everyone, insert your favorite piece of SW Saga dialogue here).
Not knocking them of course. But I seem to be able to have an open mind--I "worship" Lucas and Spielberg but admit that there is room for criticism, and nO ONE is perfect. Can;t you do the same with PJ? At least show a little respect if you don't like him? There is a way to be "middle of the road:" you know.
(This post was edited by Sunflower on Feb 2 2008, 7:02am)
|
|
|
CAhobbit
Nargothrond
Feb 2 2008, 7:40am
Post #98 of 132
(767 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Hated seems a little strong....
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
When I look at his films pre Schindlers List that had him nominated as a best director I just don't see any (at the time) that would have been close to getting the award. Why? Well...
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Great movie (at least I think so) but it's a sci-fi film and that genre doesn't seem to garner many wins at Oscars (at least in best picture, acting or direction).
Raiders of the Lost Ark
Action adventure movies seem to befall the same fate as sci-fi and fantasty films (for the most part).
E.T
Again, sci-fi film
I think a film he really could have won best director for (before Schindler's List) would have been "The Color Purple" (great movie) but he wasn't even nominated. Perhaps he was overlooked but he did have some good competition whenever he was nominated. Of course many have said that the academy overlooked many people over the years. Peter O'Toole (which really seems that way...honestly, nominated so many times and no win), Ron Howard (finally got it for Beautiful Mind), Roman Polanski just to name a few.
Do not meddle in the affairs of hobbits for we can bite your kneecaps off!
CAhobbit's flickr page
CAhobbit's myspace
|
|
|
Sunflower
Doriath
Feb 2 2008, 7:53am
Post #100 of 132
(733 views)
Shortcut
|
ET I think got 7 or 8 nominations, and was actually a favorite to pull off the same kind of ground-breaking BP win as ROTK did, except that Richard Attenborough's team came up with a brilliant marketing plan for Gandhi that basically said that if you didn't vote for his film, it was a vote against World Peace. Funny considering that it was ET that had a special screening at the United Nations that year. (This is true, and it was NOT part of an Oscar campaign.) The contest was actually VERY close. You forget the overwhelming effect Et has on people. If Oscar loves anything, it's a sentimental weepie. I have a book on the Oscars, I follow Oscar season, so I know a bit of trivia.
"All About Oscar" by Emmanuel Levy. (2003 the latest edition, it's been updated 3 or 4 times, it's something of a classic). FANTASTIC book on the Oscars!)
You're right, I was a little strong in saying Spielberg was "hated", but for all his artistic genius, he wasn't treated with the proper respect either. I was reading one of Tehanu's old essays and she was talking about how the derisive "geeks and fanboys" refs in critical reaction to LOTR faded as time went on, b/c people could see that it was sheer genius.
(This post was edited by Sunflower on Feb 2 2008, 7:58am)
|
|
|
|
|
Flippin' Heck!!!
[
