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Kim
Doriath

Dec 30 2013, 1:17am
Post #1 of 16
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Made in Hollywood interview with Richard Armitage
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wXb4kLNl7U I found this interview very interesting, especially Richard's comments on the following:- Why Thorin goes into the mountain: did he go for Bilbo, or the Arkenstone? He says it was left up to the audience to decide. What do you think?
- Smaug is being controlled by the evil power of Sauron - "far more dangerous than just a malevolent beast." Interesting.
- Several different stories within the movie: one viewing isn't enough; "feels like you're watching more material than you can deal with." I would agree with this - I couldn't really take it all in on my first viewing.
Thoughts?
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DavidDevant
Menegroth
Dec 30 2013, 1:40am
Post #2 of 16
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Interestingly the word "controlled"
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Doesn't give quite the same connotations when I watched the clip as reading it in text. Although it does spark an interesting thought. I wonder if Sauron has sent messengers to Smaug with overtures? It might explain some of his more current knowledge!
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Kilidoescartwheels
Doriath
Dec 30 2013, 1:47am
Post #3 of 16
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Oh I'm sorry, I get so distracted when I hear his voice But as for your questions:
- Why Thorin goes into the mountain: did he go for Bilbo, or the Arkenstone? He says it was left up to the audience to decide. What do you think?
- Smaug is being controlled by the evil power of Sauron - "far more dangerous than just a malevolent beast." Interesting.
- Several different stories within the movie: one viewing isn't enough; "feels like you're watching more material than you can deal with." I would agree with this - I couldn't really take it all in on my first viewing.
I think Thorin went after the Arkenstone (sorry Bilbo) - in fact, I couldn't imagine Thorin NOT being the first person in, being he wanted the Arkenstone so badly. And in AUJ he was such a take-charge person, and protective of his men, so it seemed almost out of character for him to send Bilbo in by himself. But at least the movie explained that, the burglar's purpose was to get the Arkenstone. That scene where he pulls his sword on Bilbo, great opportunity for Richard to switch back and forth between the AUJ Thorin and Mad Thorin, and great acting, too! Did I mention he's dreamy? Smaug controlled by Sauron, no I don't really see that, although it would explain how Smaug knows about the quest. Maybe used or even unleashed, but not controlled. And yes there are 3 stories going on, and in that sense this movie does remind me of Two Towers (not sure that's a good thing). All I know is I've seen it twice and I DEFINITELY want to see it again, and not just for Richard, I really enjoyed it for the most part.
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Avandel
Gondolin
Dec 30 2013, 2:13am
Post #4 of 16
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thank you for link, RA is always great re interviews
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I absolutely think Thorin goes into the mountain after Bilbo, it's difficult to see expression as Thorin is in profile, but after Balin says "his name is Bilbo etc." right before the camera leaves Thorin you can see his eyes changing and lowering slightly, like someone who is thinking about the hobbit who saved his life, who saved all of them. But I think so much of the quest and Arkenstone is going on through Thorin's mind at the same time, Thorin registers that Bilbo is alive and w. the first touch of dragon sickness coming into play (after seeing all the gold), Thorin switches focus to the stone - e.g., when Thorin holds the sword to Bilbo he's wavering between himself and dragon-sickness, right on the edge. Interestingly for me it's the shocking sight of the dragon that snaps Thorin out of it. (Also, you don't go RUNNING to find a stone. But you run if one you care about is in danger). Well, yes, there is a lot going on in DOS, in a good way, one of the reasons after the first view I needed to see it again immediately. Love it, it's like a good beefy book with multiple characters and narratives, but for me they are all flowing side by side and together very nicely. And I want MORE. I'm not too clear, right now, that Smaug is being controlled by Sauron (tho the cast would know better than I). To me Smaug seems like one with his own agenda, much like the spider of LOTR, two evils living side by side - I had the feeling that Smaug doesn't care about Sauron - the darkness may come but it's nothing to Smaug, except something to watch happen and possibly be amused by. (Tho there is that flash of the Eye tho that could be re the Ring itself, forged by Sauron - maybe it's just I like the idea of Smaug being independently cunning and evil, his own character). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2uBmSAEldI
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Kim
Doriath

Dec 30 2013, 2:29am
Post #5 of 16
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for the link, I had seen that interview before as well (love the interviewer's t-shirt). I agree with you that Thorin went into the mountain after Bilbo. When he first runs into the treasure room, I actually thought the look on his face was more, "I'm home" than "ooh, look at all that gold", but I can see how the latter would then bring out the first touch of dragon sicknesses. Which then explains why he pulled the sword on Bilbo. I still haven't fully made up my mind about that, but it does make sense this way. Re Smaug and Sauron, I thought it was interesting that Smaug perceived the ring and we got a flash of the Eye. I was wondering if that was part of the "Smaug can get inside your head" thing, or a more overt connection to Sauron. And yeah, I can see Smaug having his own agenda, but being interested to see what Sauron does (as long as it doesn't interfere with his gold).
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kapainter
Registered User

Dec 30 2013, 3:27am
Post #6 of 16
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Thanks for the interview post!
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Ideally, I would like to believe there's a joint desire to both save Bilbo and recover the Arkenstone, but I think that while physical distance allows him to enter Erebor for Bilbo, physical proximity clouds his judgment and turns it solely towards the 'stone...Which is a shame, really, because it took time for Bilbo to garner Thorin's trust and yet the riches/Arkenstone quickly dispel a great deal of Thorin's good favor... I completely agree it's the kind of movie that deserves multiple viewings :). The first time, it's all shock and awe. Frankly, it was a little overwhelming at times because the pace didn't slow much and thus you had to keep with the quickly growing story. With that said, I thought it was absolutely delightful and enjoyed it just as much upon my second viewing. Can we also take a moment to appreciate how absolutely stunning Smaug was in this film? The sheer enormity of our "chiefest of calamities," the expression in his eyes (particularly upon seeing the gold statue), and how utterly realistic it all felt. I was continually amazed at how I didn't have a lingering thought in the back of my mind that, "wow, too bad the graphics on this dragon detract from its presence." Instead, Smaug felt just as real as Martin Freeman--just wonderful :).
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Owain
Dor-Lomin

Dec 30 2013, 3:37am
Post #7 of 16
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Middle Earth is New Zealand! "Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."
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Kim
Doriath

Dec 30 2013, 3:47am
Post #8 of 16
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Ideally, I would like to believe there's a joint desire to both save Bilbo and recover the Arkenstone, but I think that while physical distance allows him to enter Erebor for Bilbo, physical proximity clouds his judgment and turns it solely towards the 'stone...Which is a shame, really, because it took time for Bilbo to garner Thorin's trust and yet the riches/Arkenstone quickly dispel a great deal of Thorin's good favor... Good point, he could very well have started in focused on Bilbo, and gotten distracted by all that gold. And right after he insisted to Balin that "I am not my grandfather." I completely agree it's the kind of movie that deserves multiple viewings :). The first time, it's all shock and awe. Frankly, it was a little overwhelming at times because the pace didn't slow much and thus you had to keep with the quickly growing story. With that said, I thought it was absolutely delightful and enjoyed it just as much upon my second viewing. Yes, I found that on my first viewing too - it pretty much took off at a run, and didn't slow down much til the end. Can we also take a moment to appreciate how absolutely stunning Smaug was in this film? The sheer enormity of our "chiefest of calamities," the expression in his eyes (particularly upon seeing the gold statue), and how utterly realistic it all felt. I was continually amazed at how I didn't have a lingering thought in the back of my mind that, "wow, too bad the graphics on this dragon detract from its presence." Instead, Smaug felt just as real as Martin Freeman--just wonderful :). Agreed. In addition to his expression when staring at the statue, I also noticed his expression right after calling Bilbo "Barrel Rider" the last time, believing that the dwarves were plotting with the people of Lake-town - you could see his thoughts clearly on his face.
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Old Toby
Hithlum

Dec 30 2013, 4:55am
Post #9 of 16
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I believe Thorin went after Bilbo after being reminded and admonished by Balin
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His expression changed then, when he realises Balin is right. And he went running into the passage, not walking, which says to me he had that sense of urgency. I don't think he would have gone willy-nilly down the passage like that with hopes of finding the Arkenstone. Certainly not when he knows there is a live dragon there! And I have a bit of a different take on when he stops on the ledge overlooking all the gold in the hall. I never thought he was awe-struck; after all, he had grown up with all that gold and was well acquainted with the mountains of gold his grandfather was keeping there (as in his watching him in AUJ). I think it just stopped him momentarily, taking it all in again, since it had been sixty years since he'd seen it all. Then when Bilbo comes running up, and Thorin asks about the Arkenstone, I suspect he was reacting to his suspicion that perhaps Bilbo had found it but didn't want to admit it. I wasn't at all surprised at his hostile reaction towards Bilbo at that moment. After all, the Arkenstone was everything to Thorin, not just because it symbolized his kingship, but because it was what would draw all the dwarf houses together under one banner...or one stone, as it were. I cannot see the connection of Sauron to Smaug, I'm sorry to say. Although I would think Sauron knows about Smaug and I wouldn't put it past him to use Smaug for his own ends - as he does everything else - at this point in the story I would be surprised if Sauron was in some way orchestrating Smaug's actions. Alarmed, really. And absolutely, one viewing is not enough! Maybe even more than two! (I've seen it six times already!)
"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)
(This post was edited by Old Toby on Dec 30 2013, 4:57am)
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Kim
Doriath

Dec 30 2013, 5:12am
Post #10 of 16
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that Thorin was suspicious of Bilbo? After all, Bilbo was just fulfilling his part of the contract - he'd signed on as a burglar, so he was just doing what he was hired to do. He'd never given any indication that he was interested in the Arkenstone for himself, so why would he take it, in Thorin's viewpoint?
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Kim
Doriath

Dec 30 2013, 5:16am
Post #11 of 16
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Yes, that was what caught my attention
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I found it interesting that he used the word control, when we really haven't seen that in the movie. It does seem like there's been some kind of communication between the two. And as Old Toby says below, I could see Sauron using Smaug for his own purposes (just as Gandalf had suspected), but I don't know that he could actually control him.
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Kim
Doriath

Dec 30 2013, 5:22am
Post #12 of 16
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Yes, have to watch it a couple of times
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Once to listen to that voice, and once to actually hear what he's saying. I like how you put that "Maybe used or even unleashed, but not controlled." Really makes me curious why he phrased it that way. Wonder if we'll find out in the DOS EE, or TABA. Perhaps I'd better go watch the interview again, in the name of, uh, research.
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Old Toby
Hithlum

Dec 30 2013, 7:55am
Post #13 of 16
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I think Thorin was suspicious of Bilbo because
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he hesitated so long in answering Thorin at all, then when he did, he changed the subject. If he hadn't found the Arkenstone, then, from Thorin's perspective, he would have said so. If he had found it, Thorin would have expected him to give it to him immediately or at least respond in the affirmative. So his hesitation and lack of response altogether made him suspect, I would think. Maybe I'm getting into Thorin's head too much! LOL!
"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator

Dec 30 2013, 8:02am
Post #14 of 16
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I think that's exactly what was going on. On Bilbo's side, he hesitates because he's just been told by Smaug that Thorin will be destroyed by obsession if he gets it, and here comes Thorin, knowing that Smaug has woken up, ignoring that danger - in fact, not even letting Bilbo point out that there's a live dragon about to come after them - and demanding to know about the Arkenstone. He even blocks Bilbo's escape route with his sword. One might reasonably expect a rational person to come in asking "Are you all right? Let's get out of here!", not "Where's my jewel? You're not getting out till you answer me!" Bilbo doesn't really understand what the Arkenstone means to the dwarves and he's really thrown by Thorin's single-mindedness here.
Silverlode "Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."
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Avandel
Gondolin
Dec 30 2013, 3:40pm
Post #15 of 16
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Thorin seeing the gold and a few more points
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I also think some of Thorin's reaction to the gold is simple homecoming - after all, he'd seen his grandfather's mountains of treasure before, but it had been a long time. Agree with other posters that, well, Bilbo is not doing too well answering Thorin (dragon sickness or not, Thorin also has suffered much to get to this point). Part of the problem with Bilbo earning the respect of the company is if you are capable of burglary (the keys) and courageous, well, to a stressed out and a touch maddened Thorin, you might also be capable of something else - especially if you are not answering clearly. Don't think the dwarves know yet how Bilbo has been successful at sneaking around (the Ring?) Another reason I think Thorin went in to save Bilbo is the other dwarves charging in shortly after - seems to me they ALL went in after Bilbo, but in Erebor the taller, and headstrong Thorin was easily ahead - it's his home after all and he knows the corridors. The other dwarves had been agitating to go for Bilbo, as well. None of that scenario makes sense to me if your primary motive is the Arkenstone - after all, if you knew a dragon was awake but you wanted a "thing" you'd probably try to be a bit more subtle, not just charge in. Interestingly Bilbo is still worried about Thorin, calling after him as Thorin tells him to follow Balin. And Thorin seems to be willing to sacrifice himself, again, if he'd joined Bilbo and Balin, Smaug probably would have just blasted the corridor instead of the pit, killing all three. Glad for the comment about barrel-rider! - FINALLY Smaug's decision to "suddenly" torch Laketown makes sense. All the times I've seen this film and I never caught that - it just seemed kind of abrupt. Guess I have been in Mirkwood too much.... P.S. Enough cannot be said about the wonder of the creation of Smaug. A complete masterwork, visually, movement, voice, expression, scales, the texture of the skin - that open mouth and the blackened tongue, the way the claws curl, the sinuous movement of the neck, the flare of the head spines - and the way he breathes fire.
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Avandel
Gondolin
Dec 30 2013, 7:44pm
Post #16 of 16
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"Bilbo doesn't really understand what the Arkenstone means to the dwarves and he's really thrown by Thorin's single-mindedness here." And of course that great expression of anger from Bilbo when Smaug talks about the Arkenstone corrupting Thorin, driving him mad - to me it's very touching that Bilbo wants to protect Thorin, and yet, as you say, neither understands the importance of the stone (as the movie presents it, doesn't even know what it is) and I think, Bilbo does not understand the completely uncompromising concepts of loyalty and honor from a DWARF standpoint which will probably show up in TABA. E.g., it's not just Bilbo and Thorin, it's the difference in how 2 cultures would deal with things (as in, for instance, Bilbo finding out Bard's name, while it wouldn't even occur to the dwarves to ask).
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