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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor
Dec 6 2013, 3:51pm
Post #1 of 17
(1818 views)
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Benedict Cumberbatch on The Necromancer (movie spoilers)
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This was posted on TORn homepage: http://www.theonering.net/...desolation-of-smaug/
The most interesting quote is something PJ told Benedict:
"He's like a black hole. Everything goes toward, and through, him. He's not formed - not fully formed. He's between shapes and he's sorta shapeshifting but not born... not like Beorn. He's lost He's not quite manifest yet"
I really like this description of Sauron because it's true to the books. He can't take physical form yet... which is also true to the LOTR movie canon. He needs the Ring to return to his former powerful self. What do you think?
"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 6 2013, 3:59pm
Post #2 of 17
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I can't wait to see Ben's Necromancer and how that plays out. I really think it's a brilliant aspect of Jackson's adaptation that he decided to enhance the presence and deal with the whole Necromancer/Dol Guldur story. It dovetails into LOTR and in my opinion makes that set of films even stronger.
I can't wait to see the itne interpretation that they bring to it, both from a story and motion capture/voice standpoints.
...
Spoiler
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In one interview Ben said that he suggested using the Black Speech "backwards" and PJ went with it. I cannot WAIT to watch that.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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Annatar598
Rohan
Dec 6 2013, 4:02pm
Post #3 of 17
(1251 views)
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I hope the execution is good and unlike the LOST monster.
Poor Sauron :( I feel bad for the dude.
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tsmith675
Gondor
Dec 6 2013, 4:05pm
Post #4 of 17
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He seems like such an amazing guy. I would love to meet him some day. He's always so great in interviews.
"Seriously, why was the scene with CGI dwarf ass NOT in the theatrical cut?!"
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Dec 6 2013, 4:26pm
Post #5 of 17
(1178 views)
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Any time there are interviews & the same Questions
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seems that their
"Character Profile"
which they read
BEFORE
ever stepping on Set,
Is the official answer....
carried throughout
the Endless Interviews.
BUT yes!
the idea of
Black Speech Backwards is Brillent.
This idea though
is NOT new..
Sound engineers hear this
all the time
when rewinding?
Remember
the Beatles anyone?
Bomby does.
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor
Dec 6 2013, 4:52pm
Post #6 of 17
(1131 views)
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Because he is lost between the worlds? Or because you fear that his execution won't be good? According to a few people who already saw DOS:
MOVIE SPOILER
He looks like a black cloud or like the darkness itself changing shapes (not just the one we see in AUJ) and at one point this black cloud turns into flames and than into the flaming eyeball.
MOVIE SPOILER END
I haven't seen the movie yet so I'm not sure if this is true or not... but it sounds possible. After all Sauron isn't able to take a real shape at this point so make him more of a black hole sounds good for me. He basically is nothing at this point... nothing but a shadow or a soul searching for a way to return to the world of the living. Perhaps thanks to Thrains Ring of Power he was able to return to a certain point to create this... image of him to seduce Azog and Bolg and summon the spirits of the Nine to Dol Guldur.
The Necromancer is one of the things of DOS I'm most looking forward to. His appearance in AUJ was more of a disappointment because it was just a second or two. I can't wait to see and especially hear his voice taunting Gandalf.
"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."
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nhui06
Rivendell
Dec 6 2013, 5:26pm
Post #7 of 17
(1101 views)
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AUJ appearance was disappointing...
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Not sure why they made him look like Slenderman (Google it if you do not know what that is). They could have just made him into a regular cloaked shadow or something, and that would have worked better.
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor
Dec 6 2013, 5:48pm
Post #8 of 17
(1059 views)
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I know exactly what you mean
"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."
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Mithfânion
Rivendell
Dec 6 2013, 9:03pm
Post #9 of 17
(961 views)
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It's a perfectly fine description of how Sauron would have been at the time.
I have to admit though, that with as many changes as they've already made, I would not have minded if they gave him a more corporeal form in the second and third film. Now that we know most of the confrontation with him is in the 3rd film, I hope they will make him awe inspiring and very powerful.
And that Saruman gets a chance to shine for the side of good as well, for once.
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Macsen
Lorien
Dec 6 2013, 9:29pm
Post #10 of 17
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PJ has never managed to get Sauron quite right. He was Ok in FOTR, but the more they have shown him from TTT onwards the more it's become apparent that their ideas are as unsubstantial as Sauron's physical form. He could be great but a lighthouse in TTT and ROTK and a bad Star Trek special effect in AUJ isn't scaring anybody. If only they spent as much time of Sauron as they have on Smaug. They have one chance left in TABA but I'm not getting my hopes up!
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor
Dec 6 2013, 9:32pm
Post #11 of 17
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Saruman should be the one who...
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And that Saruman gets a chance to shine for the side of good as well, for once. Yes! I even hope that he's the one who is responsible for Saurons defeat at this point. Although I fear/guess they'll give this to Galadriel. But it would be nice to see Saruman fighting Sauron. Until now they didn't show why he was the head of their order. We saw Gandalf fighting and defeating a Balrog and other evil creatures, we saw Radagast defending his home against spiders and even defeating (a very weak spirit) of the Witch-King. What did Saruman do so far? He defeated Gandalf the Grey in FOTR but lost every other battle against him later (TTT when he lost the control over Theoden, ROTK when he lost his staff). And in AUJ he was an arrogant and bureaucratic old man but not the head of the Istari and not the "number one wizard" who is "a good and noble man" how Sir Christopher Lee describes him. But if he's the one who defeats the Necromancer... that would change a lot. Let Galadriel destroy Dol Guldur but Saruman should be the one who drove Sauron away. He should be the last one who actually sees Sauron. If the corruption already started there or later when he found the Palantir doesn't matter.
I have to admit though, that with as many changes as they've already made, I would not have minded if they gave him a more corporeal form in the second and third film. Now that we know most of the confrontation with him is in the 3rd film, I hope they will make him awe inspiring and very powerful. He should be powerful. Indeed. But not too powerful. I would like to see that he perhaps even wants to do something he can't do. This bungee-thing Benedict Cumberbatch mentioned... I really want to see Sauron realizing that he needs the Ring to overpower all his enemies. Otherwise the audience would ask... why does he need the Ring? He already defeated Gandalf & Co as a black shadow cloud. It's ok if he can defeat Gandalf or Radagast but when the whole council attacks he shouldn't be able to stand against them. But I hope it's not Galadriel who defeats him. It should be Gandalf or even better Saruman.
"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."
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Ostadan
Rivendell
Dec 6 2013, 9:55pm
Post #12 of 17
(939 views)
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While consistent with the LotR films -- obviously of prime importance here -- it is not consistent with the books. In the book, Gollum describes the number of fingers (and colour) of Sauron's very material hand; and elsewhere, Tolkien wrote: "Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic. In his earlier incarnation he was able to veil his power (as Gandalf did) and could appear as a commanding figure of great strength of body and supremely royal demeanour and countenance."
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Mithfânion
Rivendell
Dec 6 2013, 11:41pm
Post #13 of 17
(878 views)
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Yes! I even hope that he's the one who is responsible for Saurons defeat at this point. Although I fear/guess they'll give this to Galadriel. But it would be nice to see Saruman fighting Sauron. Until now they didn't show why he was the head of their order. He should be powerful. Indeed. But not too powerful. I would like to see that he perhaps even wants to do something he can't do. This bungee-thing Benedict Cumberbatch mentioned... I really want to see Sauron realizing that he needs the Ring to overpower all his enemies. Otherwise the audience would ask... why does he need the Ring? He already defeated Gandalf & Co as a black shadow cloud. It's ok if he can defeat Gandalf or Radagast but when the whole council attacks he shouldn't be able to stand against them. But I hope it's not Galadriel who defeats him. It should be Gandalf or even better Saruman. I basically agree with every single point you've made. I also fear that since we already know that Boyens wanted Galadriel to kick ass, she will probably hog most of the glory in the defeat of Sauron. I can only hope that the 3 Istari all get to show their stuff as well. I'm especially sceptical about them doing right by Chris Lee' s Saruman. In the LoTR they already reduced him to Sauron's puppet, and they have at no point showed why he is the head of his order, certainly not in AUJ, where he was disappointing. Since he is cut entirely from film 2, please give him something interesting to do in TABA.
Re: Sauron. I think they can have him take physical form but they probably decided not to. I think this description of him will also apply to how he looks in film 3. As you say, he should not be able to withstand the might of the White Council, and mot likely they will show him as being unable to withstand it as well. Obviously he needs to be soundly defeated in order for their own LoTR films to make sense.
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Dec 7 2013, 1:38am
Post #14 of 17
(850 views)
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I did find the Necromancer rendering in AUJ somewhat disappointing. I would have preferred a less human shape than the generic Encounter of the 3rd kind shadowed out alien form that they did. I would have rather seen a cloaked figure as well, or a dark menacing cloud. Something.
I'm looking forward to DoS to see what they do.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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Faleel
Rohan
Dec 7 2013, 2:11am
Post #15 of 17
(847 views)
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"Earlier incarnation"
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Finrod
Rohan
Dec 7 2013, 2:24am
Post #16 of 17
(862 views)
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This was posted on TORn homepage: http://www.theonering.net/...desolation-of-smaug/
The most interesting quote is something PJ told Benedict:
"He's like a black hole. Everything goes toward, and through, him. He's not formed - not fully formed. He's between shapes and he's sorta shapeshifting but not born... not like Beorn. He's lost He's not quite manifest yet"
I really like this description of Sauron because it's true to the books. He can't take physical form yet... which is also true to the LOTR movie canon. He needs the Ring to return to his former powerful self. What do you think?
The book never said such a thing. It is purely a fabulation of Jackson’s based on his misunderstanding.
…all eyes looked upon the ring; for he held it now aloft, and the green jewels gleamed there that the Noldor had devised in Valinor. For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured; that was the badge of Finarfin and his house.The Silmarillion, pp 150-151 while Felagund laughs beneath the treesin Valinor and comes no more
to this grey world of tears and war.The Lays of Beleriand, p 311
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ElendilTheShort
Gondor
Dec 7 2013, 6:02am
Post #17 of 17
(814 views)
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it is noted in the movies that he could not take on a form but he definitely had a form by the time of LOTR in the books and I think it's reasonable to think that rebuilding a form would happen gradually over the 3000 years since his previous death, not suddenly in the 60 or so years between The Hobbit and LOTR.
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