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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
A female's point of view
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Sep 28 2013, 10:24am

Post #51 of 108 (511 views)
Oh wicked..... ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

And also priceless! thanks for this, it had me in stitches.

And then I started thinking of any other songs that might have Santa in, and therefore a Thorin application.

"Santa Claus is coming to town"

You'd better watch out, dragon go fly
Azog get out, I'm telling you why
Thorin Oakenshield's in town!

...but then comes the line, 'He sees you when you're sleeping". We do seem to have hit a rich seam of humour here. Wink

And as for "I saw Mummy kissing Santa".... Evil

Grey Havens

Sep 28 2013, 10:36am

Post #52 of 108 (494 views)
I know you didn't mean it to, [In reply to] Can't Post

but your post made me giggle: that females don't take to these films. I haven't done a statistical analysis for a while, but back in LOTR's heyday a very strong majority of the posters on these boards was female. And many (most?) were enthusiastic fans of either the books or the movies, or both. (I realize you weren't specifically talking about the books, but I think the two go together.) Nowadays I suspect there's still a female majority across all the boards here, though this majority may be less on The Hobbit board. I suspect the relative increase in male posters on The Hobbit board isn't because males like the movie more than females, however, but instead for more complicated reasons. And I'd also suggest that a number of male posters on The Hobbit board in fact are NOT fans of the movie. So gender ratio of active posters doesn't necessarily indicate that one gender is more likely to "take to the films" than the other.

And by far and away, the most enthusiastic fans I know of The Hobbit movie (and the LOTR movies, and the books too) are in fact female -- okay, so maybe I met them here on TORn, but still, they're real people too! And I know men who are polite fans of the movies but who are DEEPLY committed, scholarly fans of the books. I'm married to one of them.

I'd suggest you've got bad luck with your mum and girlfriend. Have to say I've had bad luck with my mum, too. She doesn't get why I find Dwarves so fascinating -- because, as she says, they're not real, and why should I waste my time with things that aren't real? She Doesn't Get It. But that's not because she's female. That's just how she is.

It doesn't take a Y chromosome to appreciate the themes that run throughout Tolkien's work, whether in the books or the movies. We females can appreciate a good imaginative adventure story, where the little people triumph over evil through quiet courage and determination, in a world where wizards fight demons and horses come running when you whistle. Where friendship, honour and loyalty matter, and where a king is known by his healing hands. Where light shines forever beyond the reach of darkness, and where the smallest of beings can topple the mightiest of evils. Where trees and foxes talk, and trolls turn to stone in the daylight Just Like They're Supposed To. Where eagles save the day when they're really needed, and a Werebear can be your saviour -- if you're lucky. What's not to like here? And why should it matter if I'm female or not?

Oh, and did I mention Hot Dwarves? Wink


Sep 28 2013, 10:41am

Post #53 of 108 (501 views)
Females versus males and LOTR/The Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

In my experience online, somewhat more females than males like the Middle-Earth films (I developed friendships with several at the time the LOTR films were released). However, I would like to add that in my circle of off-line acquaintances, no one apart from my sisters pays much attention to either Tolkien's books or the films.

One of the major draws to the films for me has been the portrayal of key male characters: Thorin, Gandalf, Aragorn and Bilbo (in The Hobbit and older Bilbo in FOTR). It is the acting that I value the most (though Thorin is also incredibly attractive of course). Thranduil and Beorn also look promising.

I have found most of the female characters so far quite irritating, and have not liked their expanded roles in the films (especially because of the loss of Glorfindel). The latest one, who has been given so much promotion, is a source of irritation and is unfortunately alienating me when it comes to DoS. I only hope her role will be small, and that she will not be made any kind of major character.

(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Sep 28 2013, 10:46am)

Grey Havens

Sep 28 2013, 10:52am

Post #54 of 108 (490 views)
Relating? [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To

In AUJ, there is basically nothing for a female to relate to. All we've really got is Bilbo. Bilbo is however easily relatable for a lot of people, even more so in AUJ. In the book, kind of.
Most of the dwarves are indeed vulgar and unlikeable, but that's a given -- they're dwarves. I imagine the only people who could relate with the dwarves properly are those with similarly poor conduct. I suppose there are also people who could relate to the dwarves' loss of a sense of home, and etc.

I agreed with most of what you wrote except for this bit. I'm not actually sure what you mean by "relating to", but I think you mean something along the lines of "understand the motivations of and have empathy for" -- correct me if I'm wrong!

Are you suggesting that in AUJ there are things for males to relate to? But not females? I'd really have to disagree with that, for starters just because I don't think the things that males can relate to are fundamentally different from the things that females relate to. Though we have to watch how we define "relating to", of course.

And even setting aside that disagreement, I think there's plenty for a female (not to the exclusion of males, however) to relate to in AUJ (depending, of course, on how we're defining "relate to"). Thorin's a wonderfully complex character, and I think it's pretty easy to relate to his conflicts and complexities. The rest of the Dwarves? Unlikeable??? On the contrary, I adore them! Their table manners might need a touch of refining, and perhaps using your host's parlour furniture for a bonfire might not be the most polite thing to do, but still. I'd hang out with them over The Fellowship any day of the week. Or any month of the year. Or...you get the idea. (Of course, you might accuse my conduct of being similar to that of the Dwarves, but I'll leave that to your judgment!)

Grey Havens

Sep 28 2013, 10:57am

Post #55 of 108 (492 views)
Maybe we need to do a series of parodies [In reply to] Can't Post

wherein we substitute "Thorin" for "Santa". I wonder how far that could take us.

Actually, no, I don't need to be taken any farther than "I saw Mummy kissing Thorin"! That's good enough for me.

ROFL, dormouse!

Grey Havens

Sep 28 2013, 10:59am

Post #56 of 108 (486 views)
If you find any extra feminine energy, Magpie, [In reply to] Can't Post

send some of it my way, will ya? My kids are wearing me out!

Well-written as always, Magpie. And I heartily agree.

Riven Delve
Tol Eressea

Sep 28 2013, 11:39am

Post #57 of 108 (490 views)
Priceless! [In reply to] Can't Post

No Thorin? What a bleak and meaningless world that would be. Sly

"Our perennial spiritual and psychological task is to look at things familiar until they become unfamiliar again." --G. K. Chesterton

Semper Fi

Sep 28 2013, 11:50am

Post #58 of 108 (488 views)
You said it! [In reply to] Can't Post

That was perfect! I'm not good with words so big thanks for successfully conveying what I tried but failed miserably, lmao! LaughLaughLaugh

Yep, women tend to be obsessive in different ways than men. Guy obsession is more in detail ("flames on Optimus????") while girl obsession is more relationship-directed. That's how I see it.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.


Sep 28 2013, 12:30pm

Post #59 of 108 (469 views)
Another woman here who has loved Tolkien’s books for decades. [In reply to] Can't Post

We longtime fans of the books accept that the books, especially The Hobbit, are largely (But not exclusively) about males. Some of us are old enough to be accustomed to that, having grown up in a literary world where all the fun stuff happened to guys.

I suspect, though I don’t know of course, that the desire on the part of the film makers to increase the “feminine energy” of the Hobbit movies has more to do with making the movies attractive to movie only fans rather than to book lovers. Most of the latter will see the movies anyway.

The inclusion of female characters is fine with me as long as it works in the context of the movie. I think that Tauriel was featured in the first trailer to emphasize that DoS will introduce new characters and situations, including a badass She-Elf.


Sep 28 2013, 1:04pm

Post #60 of 108 (484 views)
How do you know that Tauriel is the only female guard? [In reply to] Can't Post

For all that I know, every fifth guard is a female. Do you know something that I don't?

I know you don't "need" to have this "feminine energy", but I don't see why it is a problem. I don't "need" it either. But I am happy to have it.

And I think it is as much "eye candy" for male viewers as it is "feminine energy" for female viewers. Tongue

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Sep 28 2013, 1:05pm

Post #61 of 108 (459 views)
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

that's a deep subject.

I like it and I am a girl but I also like math, physics, programming, table-top gaming (I am a GM even), fixing things in my house (as much as I am capable of), Amtgard / LARPing, and things. So it may be a thing that a girl would need to be a tomboyish sort to get into. We have a wild adventure through the wilderness with the brotherhoodly comradery of 13 bearded dudes, an adventure that is so much about friendship rather than romance (a thing that I think girls get pelted with and almost held to at gunpoint to learn to like or die without - literally), and a person growing in their own personal independence and capability (rather than developing a relationship with a significant other who can be presumed to be responsible to take care of them).

My mom doesn't like it but my close friends that are girls seemed to like it well enough (maybe not their favorite but they didn't fall asleep or complain alot or indicate they didn't want to see the next one either). However, those friends of mine which happen to be girls do also have tomboyish streaks and the vast majority of my friends are guys. We all like traipsing through wild places (either actual parks or just our imaginations) on adventures and play-fighting (either physically or using cards and game pieces or both) and seem to all find a ton of value in our friendships - and we all kind of steered clear of that traditional marriage-children path in life with romance often playing a minor role in our day-to-day hopes and concerns (at best).

This movie definitely does not cater to those things which society has defined to be "feminine", however, many girls similarly do not cater to these things - so - girls who haven't bought into the voice of mother culture's calling for them might still like it quite a bit.


Sep 28 2013, 1:09pm

Post #62 of 108 (489 views)
A Mom's review of The Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

I really like this. Here's a review from a Mom who was never much of a fan: http://www.patheos.com/...-one-moms-admission/

"I've found it is the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because I’m afraid, and he gives me courage.” - Gandalf the Grey.

"Do not be afraid Mithrandir, if ever you should need my help, I will come." - Lady Galadriel.

(This post was edited by burgahobbit on Sep 28 2013, 1:09pm)

Tol Eressea

Sep 28 2013, 1:19pm

Post #63 of 108 (473 views)
We really have to stop meeting like this... [In reply to] Can't Post

My posts seem to have some magnetic attraction for you... Tongue

I think you have hit the proverbial nail...I meant to comment about the fact that Tauriel is more than likely created for the benefit of the male viewers, but it wouldn't be "PC" to admit that so we're being told she's meant to appeal to us girls!

"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Sep 28 2013, 2:30pm

Post #64 of 108 (450 views)
I do tend to respond to people who I like and respect more than others // [In reply to] Can't Post


'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Sep 28 2013, 2:39pm

Post #65 of 108 (454 views)
I have the same "problem" [In reply to] Can't Post

I am more inclined to reply to someone who I admire. Not gonna name any names but people like Ainur, Ziggy, Roheryn and Daniel are all people that I respect and I like it when they reply to me Blush There are many others too but I'd be typing for a few minutes Wink

I simply walked into Mordor.


Sep 28 2013, 3:26pm

Post #66 of 108 (439 views)
I dunno about this... [In reply to] Can't Post

The UNEXPECTED JOURNEY midnight showing I went to last year had tons of women and girls there.

I'm into Japanese monster films, you know, Godzilla type stuff, now there's a genre predominantly liked by men. I see waaaaaaaay more female Tolkien fans than female kaiju/tokusatsu fans.

Na Vedui

Sep 28 2013, 5:12pm

Post #67 of 108 (415 views)
Older readers [In reply to] Can't Post

"We longtime fans of the books accept that the books, especially The Hobbit, are largely (But not exclusively) about males. Some of us are old enough to be accustomed to that, having grown up in a literary world where all the fun stuff happened to guys."

Yes, this certainly resonates with me. And the easiest guys for girls/women to identify with are ones who are just getting on with their adventures, and/or who relate decently to the women they encounter. Womanisers, and men who continually refer to women in disrespectful ways when they talk about them, are more off-putting because they are constantly throwing their different gender in your face and not in a nice way. Even boy characters can do this, on a smaller scale ("Girls - always crying, and can't throw straight" kind of stuff). Tolkien's male characters (thankfully) belong to the other sort and feel like fellow human beings (even when they are Elves or Dwarves or Wizards). Someone like Bilbo is a lovely hero to follow and really feels like kin. Doesn't *have* to be hot - he's family.

Tol Eressea

Sep 28 2013, 5:15pm

Post #68 of 108 (424 views)
Hmm, interesting, I've found the opposite in fact. My mum loved it (and she's not usually into fantasy and the such!) [In reply to] Can't Post

My sis loved it. A couple of my friends who are girls love it. My girlfriend loved it (though then again, she's a Tolkien fanatic like me, so maybe that doesn't count ;) )

Sooo, from my observations, it's been pretty liked amongst girls. I'd actually say -less- so with boys... Most of my friends actually didn't think much of it at all, and some greatly disliked it.. Didn't get that reaction from any of the girls I know!! Wink

So, all in all, it's a mixed bag! Angelic

"So your own praise will forever keep your name green,
Both here on Earth and on the stage of the stars" - J.G.Kittel, writing about the composer Jan Dismas Zelenka (1740)

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!

Ethel Duath

Sep 28 2013, 5:28pm

Post #69 of 108 (400 views)
Mods up! Wonderfully said! [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree completely, and with Elizabeth as well.

I think they should post your comments here on the main home page. Seriously. Smile

Thank you.

Tol Eressea

Sep 28 2013, 5:41pm

Post #70 of 108 (386 views)
prefectly agree. Tolkien can/should connect with all, no matter what background // [In reply to] Can't Post


"So your own praise will forever keep your name green,
Both here on Earth and on the stage of the stars" - J.G.Kittel, writing about the composer Jan Dismas Zelenka (1740)

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!

Ethel Duath

Sep 28 2013, 5:52pm

Post #71 of 108 (388 views)
You guys are killing me! :D // [In reply to] Can't Post


Superuser / Moderator

Sep 28 2013, 6:01pm

Post #72 of 108 (409 views)
If this were a movie just about the story of The Hobbit, I'd agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I also loved the Hobbit with book. However, since the movie-makers are going to take on the events of the wider world at the time of The Hobbit, I'm glad they're giving Galadriel a role as it wouldn't make sense to include the White Council without her.

I also love the fact that there will be another female character that at least has some lines and can't think of a better place to add one than making the prison guard female. It sounds like her character will advance the storyline of why Thranduil showed up at the Battle of Five Armies and why Legolas showed up at the Council of Elrond.

To me, it makes much less sense to ignore the fact that there would have been strong female characters in Middle-earth at the time; again, only because these movies are as much about Middle-earth at the time as they are about the original story of The Hobbit.

Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.

"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase


Sep 28 2013, 6:18pm

Post #73 of 108 (384 views)
Elf-women generally fight only at extreme need [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To
I was about to post the same thing. It's the fact that Tauriel is the token female guard that gets me. Why not have every, I don't know...5th Elven guard a female if you are trying to show that it's not that unusual for a female Elf to be a soldier? It's the giving of Tauriel a prominent talking role that makes her look shoe-horned in as a token gesture to this "feminine energy" they suppose that women viewers need. I for one certainly don't! Smile

Tolkien wrote that although Elven women are as physically capable as male Elves, they rarely fight because of spiritual reasons. Tauriel should have an exceptional reason for becoming a soldier. I am hoping that we learn of such a motive when we discover more about her background. If Tauriel is a token female then isn't Galadriel as well? Jackson could have shoved the whole Necromancer subplot into the background just as Tolkien did himself.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

Tol Eressea

Sep 28 2013, 6:21pm

Post #74 of 108 (390 views)
wow.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I will never be able to hear that song with a straight face again! Tongue

Silverlode, Ro, Starling-you guys crack me up! Sly

Thanks for the much needed laugh!

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.

Tol Eressea

Sep 28 2013, 6:22pm

Post #75 of 108 (390 views)
He's got a sword that's gleaming bright [In reply to] Can't Post

I stopped right there!


Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

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