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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
no dain, beorn or bolg footage at all?
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boldog
Rohan

Aug 17 2013, 2:11am

Post #1 of 59 (2118 views)
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no dain, beorn or bolg footage at all? Can't Post

Why, out of all the main characters, these three are so secret? We have seen pictures and toys of bolg but no footage. We seen beorn footage from trailer and brief pic from calendar and that's it. And dain we have seen absolutely nothing! Are these three reduced now to minor roles? To me they are all very important characters, but it seems that jackson must think tauriel and Lego as more superior! What do you think? And I mean no footage even behind the scenes!

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"

(This post was edited by boldog on Aug 17 2013, 2:13am)


Yngwulff
Gondor


Aug 17 2013, 2:12am

Post #2 of 59 (969 views)
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maybe [In reply to] Can't Post

next trailer now pick up shooting is done ...

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.



duats
Grey Havens

Aug 17 2013, 2:28am

Post #3 of 59 (972 views)
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Dain may very well not show up until Film Three [In reply to] Can't Post

After all, the character doesn't appear in the book until the Battle of Five Armies, so the lack of pictures/footage isn't all that surprising.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 17 2013, 3:27am

Post #4 of 59 (1012 views)
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everyone should know by now [In reply to] Can't Post

That Jackson's made up content takes priority over the actual stuff from the story...Tongue

Or at least it seems that way to me. Seems Jackson wants to impress people with what he can write and to heck with the story Tolkien wrote because we ALL know Tolkien was going to rewrite the Hobbit anyways. Tauriel and Legolas were the main characters in the new version Angelic didn't anyone get the memo?

Honestly I'm still on board cause I wanna finish this train wreck, its just too bad that the rest of the ride isn't nearly as good as the part that was LOTR Wink
at least after AUJ it can't get much worse


Olessan
Bree


Aug 17 2013, 4:23am

Post #5 of 59 (1004 views)
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I don't get it. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
That Jackson's made up content takes priority over the actual stuff from the story...Tongue

Or at least it seems that way to me. Seems Jackson wants to impress people with what he can write and to heck with the story Tolkien wrote because we ALL know Tolkien was going to rewrite the Hobbit anyways. Tauriel and Legolas were the main characters in the new version Angelic didn't anyone get the memo?

Honestly I'm still on board cause I wanna finish this train wreck, its just too bad that the rest of the ride isn't nearly as good as the part that was LOTR Wink
at least after AUJ it can't get much worse


I see you heavily criticize the Hobbit trilogy as I lurk around the forums. Why can't you just respect the films as they are? They are adaptions, not word-for-word translations. The books and films are two separate entities.
One example is the Dwarves. Some of the designs are questionable for the film, but in the book they have absolutely zero characterization. If they were 'book-accurate' in the movie, it'd be a disaster. Thirteen cranky, bearded, almost-identical old guys, a Hobbit, and occasionally a wizard. Boring. Unengaging. Stale.

I see this ridiculous amount of hate showing up on tORn lately. I used to check here every day but with 'fans' doing nothing but complain, there's no point. There is no friendly discussion here any more and it's poisoning the boards.

Legolas should logically show up since he's Thranduil's son. Who cares if they made the captain of the guard a woman? That's only an issue for the misogynists. They do need to dial her back in the promo material, though. (Have you yet complained about Azog, the worst part so far?)
In order to adapt a book, it's generally essential for the team to take some liberties. What makes a good book does not make a good movie. They are two completely different mediums that require completely different elements to work correctly.
If the trilogy so far was 100% faithful, we would also have a ridiculous, cartoony talking purse, and a childish movie overall. We may also get such outlandish things as Beorn's animals setting the tables (I sincerely hope that's omitted, it's stupid). The Hobbit was written for young children. It would not translate properly into a decent movie without changes.


(This post was edited by entmaiden on Aug 17 2013, 1:03pm)


Yngwulff
Gondor


Aug 17 2013, 5:28am

Post #6 of 59 (825 views)
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Sinister [In reply to] Can't Post

I feel you, and would have liked several things done differently too, but our expectations and PJ's vision are definately 2 different things. I solace myself with the parts he did get right and as for the rest that did not meet my expectations I always have the books to fall back on.

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.



The Mitch King
Rohan


Aug 17 2013, 5:53am

Post #7 of 59 (802 views)
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Ermmmm [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
That Jackson's made up content takes priority over the actual stuff from the story...Tongue

Or at least it seems that way to me. Seems Jackson wants to impress people with what he can write and to heck with the story Tolkien wrote because we ALL know Tolkien was going to rewrite the Hobbit anyways. Tauriel and Legolas were the main characters in the new version Angelic didn't anyone get the memo?

Honestly I'm still on board cause I wanna finish this train wreck, its just too bad that the rest of the ride isn't nearly as good as the part that was LOTR Wink
at least after AUJ it can't get much worse


In any other situation in life, having 1/3 of the whole truth is nothing but speculation. How then is the WHOLE trilogy already a train wreck? You can't even recite one scene from The Desolation of Smaug can you?? I get that AUJ didn't conform to all the images you had of the Hobbit in your head but why should I or anyone else expect it to be specifically this or that according to our own opinions??


The Mitch King
Rohan


Aug 17 2013, 6:01am

Post #8 of 59 (773 views)
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Meh [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Why, out of all the main characters, these three are so secret? We have seen pictures and toys of bolg but no footage. We seen beorn footage from trailer and brief pic from calendar and that's it. And dain we have seen absolutely nothing! Are these three reduced now to minor roles? To me they are all very important characters, but it seems that jackson must think tauriel and Lego as more superior! What do you think? And I mean no footage even behind the scenes!


I don't see how you go from "Why are these characters so secret?" to "...it seems that Jackson must think tauriel and Lego are more superior!" Maybe he is putting a ton of effort into making them great for you and I!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Aug 17 2013, 6:28am

Post #9 of 59 (789 views)
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next trailer [In reply to] Can't Post

they don't want to reveal all their big surprises in just one trailer, it'll probably be piecemeal. Second trailer; Bolg, Beorn. Third trailer, a complete shot of Smaug flying around the lonely mountain.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!

(This post was edited by MouthofSauron on Aug 17 2013, 6:30am)


emre43
Lorien

Aug 17 2013, 7:39am

Post #10 of 59 (799 views)
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Very well said Olessan [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Legomir
Bree

Aug 17 2013, 8:31am

Post #11 of 59 (704 views)
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I kind of prefer it... [In reply to] Can't Post

It reminds me of the time before I was always on the Internet and knew what most things looked like before I saw them in the theater. I was the same way with the last Harry Potter, where I was determined not to see any photos of Mundungus Fletcher and Aberforth Dumbledore. It's why I've been avoiding the photo of Beorn, and don't want to know anything about Dain, Bolg, the Master, Alfrid, etc. It just seems more exciting to know next-to-nothing about a movie before it comes out, at least on the visual side of things. It makes for a nice surprise.

And I don't think Peter Jackson is keeping these from everyone because he thinks Legolas and Tauriel are superior characters. Though I have to wonder how the Rohirrem were marketed when the Two Towers was coming out (I was too young to remember it). For better or worse, I think the Rohirrem and the Elves are equivalent in these two trilogies. They are new (ish) characters introduced in the second volume in a big part, so why not show them off, or something like that.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 17 2013, 8:39am

Post #12 of 59 (709 views)
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Not everything has to be revealed at once? [In reply to] Can't Post

Can you imagine if they revealed all the (main) character designs a year ago, and included behind-the-scenes footage of scenes being filmed? Where would the fun be in that? They keep things behind to keep the fans excited, and coming back for more. I wouldn't want everything spoiled at once. Out of the 3, Beorn is really the only main character. I have a suspicion Bolg and Dain will have limited screentime.

They're not withholding their designs and scenes because Legolas and Tauriel are superior characters. They're doing it to keep us excited. It also says nothing about the final film.



(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 17 2013, 8:42am)


Eadignes
The Shire

Aug 17 2013, 8:45am

Post #13 of 59 (751 views)
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Nor do i get it [In reply to] Can't Post

I lurk in the forums also out of my great love of the works of tolkien, i enjoyed lotr films by peter jackson, which infact i thought i would not!
"I see this ridiculous amount of hate showing up on tORn lately", is a bit strong, this is supposed to be a discussion on the hobbit movies good or bad, i am always on the fence will see the 3 hobbit movies then make my mind up.
You must remember that this website as many other areas to post ideas and thoughts on tolkiens work and some people have great love for his works and no love of the movies.
For me the hobbit will always be a childrens fairy tale and that is how it should have stayed but i understand that it is right and proper for people to get excited about these movies and love all the changes.
So i agree some people may go to far in support of the books and hate all that peter jackson changes but on the other side of the argument i also see people going over the top in protesting about why the changes are valid.
Which is how it should be on a discussion forum!


(This post was edited by Eadignes on Aug 17 2013, 8:48am)


Shagrat
Gondor

Aug 17 2013, 8:54am

Post #14 of 59 (695 views)
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The way I see it.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Tauriel is a made-up character, and Legolas is a returning one. There's no big surprise about them. But perhaps he wants to keep Dain and Beorn rather enigmatic? We didn't see much of Azog in either form before AUJ came out, so it's not really a surprise that Bolg has remained largely secret.

In any case I don't think it's an indictment of their roles - at all. I just think it's who Warner and the marketing people want them to push.


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Aug 17 2013, 9:52am

Post #15 of 59 (706 views)
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Negativity [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the things about negativity, is it needs returned negativity to thrive. The easiest best thing to do if you sense or disagree with a message is just to move past it and not respond. When I see the same message or the same message dozens of time, slightly repackaged, its clear to me that a response is being provoked or sought, so why bother when nothing will be accomplished. Its better to just post what you like, or dislike for that matter and ignore the provocative or entrenched. Open debate, with open minds is good, arguing not so much and its easy to tell from a post or string of posts which way it will likely go.


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 17 2013, 10:51am

Post #16 of 59 (655 views)
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I'm sure there are things they want to keep secret... [In reply to] Can't Post

..and that's fine by me. It's a balance - release enough to arouse interest and keep it stoked, but hold something back for the true reveal, which is the film itself.

Dain may not be in this film anyway. He shouldn't be, according to the book, but they may want to introduce him earlier. If they do it will be a departure from the book, and therefore something that they probably do want to keep quiet, because even people who know the book won't know it's coming.

Bolg - same applies.

Beorn will involve a lot of computer trickery, so they may still be working on him. And he, like Smaug, is one of the big characters; again, something they probably do want to keep under wraps, though they've teased us a bit with the poster image of Gandalf and Beorn in bear form. I think the calendar picture was meant to slip by unnoticed (some hope!!)

I don't see anything sinister in it and I'm sure Peter Jackson doesn't think Tauriel and Legolas are superior. Legolas is no reveal at all because we all know what he looks like; he's there to draw in fans of the previous films. Tauriel is controversial so I'd say they're putting her forward to let the die-hards get used to her. Also, frankly, because she looks good on the posters alongside Legolas. They seem to have decided to promote this as the 'Elfy' film, and although people are complaining that Thranduil (my hero!) is missing from the tie-in book covers he did feature prominently in the trailer. That may be another reason why Dain hasn't been spotlighted. He's another dwarf and we already have thirteen of those.

I'd say relax. I can't see any conspiracy here, just another stage in promoting the film. AUJ was mostly dwarves, and Bilbo, with Gandalf as the link between trilogies. This time it's elves and Legolas.


malickfan
Gondor


Aug 17 2013, 11:28am

Post #17 of 59 (664 views)
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Hey...you may have a point about the Dwarves but lay off the purse... [In reply to] Can't Post

What's he ever done to you? Wink

I can see what you mean about the dwarves-with the exception of Balin, Thorin Bombur and Fili and Kili there is absolutely nothing to distinguish them...but I can honestly say I never found it a problem in the book-I've always viewed The Hobbit as a comedic fairytale unconected to the other books about middle earth-the fact that Bilbo, Thorin and Gandalf happen to appear in the appendices is a lucky conicidence to me-I know that may not make a lot of sense, but I really enjoy the tone and simplicty of The Hobbit (its nice to read a book by Tolkien where you don't need to set aside a whole week and have a dicionary to hand) and would have happily watched a film without any of the Dol Guldor sideplots-though of course more detail would be needed for the film.

I don't necessarily share Sinister's views entirely, but I do see where he is coming from-PJ's intrepretation of the hobbit is a rewrite not an adaptation. I have read all of Tolkien's published writings On Middle Earth (Including the HOME the Hoth and the Anotated Hobbit, but exclusing Vingwat Tengwar etc) but I remain glad that The Hobbit is set apart, and I'm not entirely pleased Jackson is 'finiishing tolkien's work' on the luckily abandoned 1960 rewrite.

Who's to say it would not have translated into a decent children's film without changes?

The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.

But he isn't quite as aweome as Cirdan.


malickfan
Gondor


Aug 17 2013, 11:36am

Post #18 of 59 (642 views)
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Would Dain's appearance strictly be a departure? [In reply to] Can't Post

Billy Connoly is credited on Imdb for DOS, and we know he started filming before they got started on the BOFA, so I have a sneaking suspcion we may see him in the flashback to Thrain's dissapearnce at Moria (OK more of a hope we will see his dialogue about the Balrog), we also know we are seeing Gandalf in Bree-so perhaps this is where the meeting of the seven dwarven lords takes palce, and this is where Dain says he is against the Quest of Erebor.

There wasn't necessarily any point or space to introduce him in the theatrical cut of AUJ, but is he radomly turns up in the third film and takes over the thron with no backstory I can see the audience being pretty peed' off...

You never know maybe Thorin will live in PJ's version Mad

The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.

But he isn't quite as aweome as Cirdan.


Shagrat
Gondor

Aug 17 2013, 11:54am

Post #19 of 59 (612 views)
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There's a point [In reply to] Can't Post

It'd be great if we see Dain pursue Azog into Moria, only to see something, and then tries to stop Thrain from doing the same thing, but to no avail. Since we know they've re-filmed the Thrain outside Moria bits it's possible.


malickfan
Gondor


Aug 17 2013, 12:07pm

Post #20 of 59 (618 views)
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It would be great if we had an Armoured Boar vs Balrog showdown... [In reply to] Can't Post

And what's the betting PJ will take the Dain 'Ironfoot' literally and gve him Iron feet as a result of battle injuries...

The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.

But he isn't quite as aweome as Cirdan.


Skaan
Lorien


Aug 17 2013, 12:42pm

Post #21 of 59 (618 views)
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As others have said [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see why everything needs to be revealed at once? We know they'll be in the movies, so why worry about a lack of footage? We didn't see Azog in the trailers for AUJ aswell and yet he turned out to be one of the most important characters of AUJ.

Personally, the more footage and shots of Tauriel and Legolas they recycle/reveal, the better. Because they're the characters i'm the least interested in and it means everything else won't get spoiled too quickly.


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 17 2013, 1:09pm

Post #22 of 59 (600 views)
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Post edited to remove personal attack. Let's refresh our understanding of the rules, YET AGAIN. [In reply to] Can't Post

The admins have had to edit and remove hundreds of posts over the last few months, and a majority of the posts are edited or removed because they violate our rule #3, which states:

3. Posts containing racial, ethnic, religious, political, sexual or other slurs, personal attacks (on a TORn user or other person) intentional attempts to drive posters away or make them feel unwelcome, or posts made with the purpose of criticizing or insulting another poster will be edited or removed.

I bolded the part that is repeatedly violated. Please read and understand this rule, and think before you post!

Olessan, I realize you haven't posted much here, and while I had to edit part of your post, I'm just using it for the opportunity to remind EVERYONE that the site owners do not tolerate violations of our Terms of Service. These are not rules made up by the admins, but by the site owners. While my post is a reply to yours, it's meant for EVERYONE.


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 17 2013, 1:43pm

Post #23 of 59 (552 views)
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Well, Dain's appearance isn't in the book [In reply to] Can't Post

... so it's something none of us can predict and I'm pretty sure I've heard Peter Jackson say he likes to introduce some elements of surprise. He may appear, but I doubt if they'll trail it beforehand.

And no. There is no way under the sun that that will happen with Thorin. Peter Jackson has a lot more nous than you think.


Rohirrim Rider
Rivendell


Aug 17 2013, 2:47pm

Post #24 of 59 (562 views)
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Good point - it may be similar to Denethor in TTT [In reply to] Can't Post

We see a scene of him interacting with established characters, setting audience sup for his 'roper' role I the third part. Of course Denethor's scene got put into the EE rather than the theatrical (rightfully so I felt) but whether Dain ends turns up on the cinema screen in December or DVD next November it could work in a similar fashion.


In Reply To
Billy Connoly is credited on Imdb for DOS, and we know he started filming before they got started on the BOFA, so I have a sneaking suspcion we may see him in the flashback to Thrain's dissapearnce at Moria (OK more of a hope we will see his dialogue about the Balrog, we also know we are seeing Gandalf in Bree-so perhaps this is where the meeting of the seven dwarven lords takes palce, and this is where Dain says he is against the Quest of Erebor.



glor
Rohan

Aug 17 2013, 5:17pm

Post #25 of 59 (507 views)
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Secret yes and, marketing [In reply to] Can't Post

I have said this before but, I will say it again.

The trailers are there to promote and market a film, to get posteriors on seats. The trailers aren't there to get the fans and geeks to see the movie, they are already going with or without a trailer. The trailer is designed to get people to see TDOS at the cinema, who need to be reminded that TH is a trilogy, people that are non-fans/geeks to get excited enough to get out their wallets come December and, buy their cinema ticket for TDOS.

The one Middle-Earth race that was by far and away the most popular amongst general, non-Tolkien reading, cinema goers during the LOTR years were elves, this trailer says if you saw AUJ and wanted more elves, they are in TDOS, if you want elves come to the cinema in December.

Of course any big film, will keep some of it's secrets under wraps until release, otherwise what's the point of going to see the film if the trailer gives you everything?

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