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Rohirrim Rider
Rivendell
Aug 11 2013, 9:08am
Post #1 of 37
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Jacksons' DGA Magazine Interview Seems to Confirm One DoS Rumour... *Possible Minor Spoilers*
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http://www.dga.org/...w-Peter-Jackson.aspx
It's a great interview in and of itself and well worth reading but this part particularly struck me -
"The Quarterly made a pilgrimage to Wellington as Jackson was shooting “re-takes” for the second Hobbit film (due out later this year). He seemed right at home inside the Middle Earth inn, The Prancing Pony."
It's been mentioned before, as a hope then a possibility, but surely this adds more evidence to the theory that we'll see Thorin and Gandalf's meeting?
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Shagrat
Gondor
Aug 11 2013, 10:09am
Post #2 of 37
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Will this be the frame for the Thrain flashback narrative I wonder?
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This way Gandalf could narrate it in a way that would make sense. It would be a good way to begin the film. This would be the 'somewhere familiar, but unexpected' mentioned in the Empire article.
Now the anomaly here is that Thorin does not know how Gandalf came by this prior to them arriving at Bag End. This presents a problem, since the scene can't happen before. With that in mind, perhaps it could be presented as a rest stop on their journey, presumably some time before the Troll sequence. You could see all the Dwarves and Bilbo in the background but the scene pays no heed to them. There's a precedent for this, given the Arwen and Aragorn flashback in TTT, which we could see occurred as Aragorn was about to leave Rivendell, but it wasn't really made clear to a general audience.
(This post was edited by Shagrat on Aug 11 2013, 10:10am)
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Aug 11 2013, 10:19am
Post #3 of 37
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That would be cool...but since the accompanying picture is of PJ on the Laketown set...
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there is the possibility that the journalist confused the half-timbered houses with Bree!
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Aug 11 2013, 10:52am
Post #4 of 37
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This actually works way better than you first realise - theory time!
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In Bag End Gandalf reveals to Thorin and Co. that he has the key, but when he explains where he got it Thorin doesn't question the answer! This always bothered me - Why wouldn't Thorin be surprised that Gandalf had spoken to Thrain? When Gandalf says "It was given to me by your father" Thorin should have gone "When?! We thought he was dead!" but instead goes "Thrain..."
BUT if, prior to Bag End, Gandalf and Thorin had already discussed the encounter with Thrain in Dol Guldur, then that explains why Thorin wasn't surprised. It also explains why Thorin was concerned that Gandalf didn't reveal the key earlier!
IMO - DoS will open with Gandalf and Thorin speaking in The Prancing Pony about Smaug. This conversation will then lead to a flashback of Gandalf in Dol Guldur meeting Thrain and retrieving the map and key. After the flashback we'll get a subtle hint about the key, explaining why Gandalf doesn't get it out immediately. Something like "There is more to this story, that I shall reveal when the time is right ( ), for now meet me at Bag End in Hobbiton. It will be easy to find () I'll leave a mark on the door! ()"
How they will make a Bree scene meld dramatically to the present of them going down the Carrock I don't know. Maybe just a cool transition or something. But that's my theory.
Ta-Da! What do you think? 
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Aug 11 2013, 10:56am)
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Shagrat
Gondor
Aug 11 2013, 11:01am
Post #5 of 37
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"How come you by this?" when Gandalf presents him with the key.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Aug 11 2013, 11:13am
Post #6 of 37
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The idea is that Gandalf doesn't explain to Thorin about the key until Bag End. All Thorin knows up until then is that Gandalf had met Thrain in Dol Guldur and that Gandalf had acquired *something* which he said he'd explain later. (or "when the time is right"). So when the key is presented Thorin asks "How came you by this?" and when Gandalf says "Your father gave it to me" no more questions are asked, because Thorin immediately fits it into the puzzle.
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Aug 11 2013, 11:14am)
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Shagrat
Gondor
Aug 11 2013, 12:04pm
Post #7 of 37
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But then I really don't think Gandalf will be getting the key in Dol Guldur, given the much-discussed problems presented by this (him having apparently not been there for many years, him having Glamdring). Doesn't the AUJ: Visual Dictionary suggest Thrain gives it to Gandalf in Moria?
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Aug 11 2013, 12:16pm
Post #8 of 37
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Seems like another completely pointless deviation. Which means it's probably correct //
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Shagrat
Gondor
Aug 11 2013, 12:21pm
Post #9 of 37
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I think it just says that Thrain is captured and lost in Moria. So who knows where Gandalf might end up meeting him?
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Aug 11 2013, 12:22pm
Post #10 of 37
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In defence of this not happening (clinging to scraps of hope)
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Gandalf may have acquired the key in Dol Guldur many years ago. There's no mention of how far back we flashback to for the Dol Guldur scene.
All the shots of Gandalf with Glamdring also involve Radagast, so we can assume these shots are all the second visit before the "ambush". But there s one shot. Thrain jumping on Gandalf from high up, Gandalf has Glamdring. It's possible I supposed, although unlikely, that Gandalf meets Thrain twice. Once in the past, to acquire the key and once with Radagast before the White Council overthrow The Necromancer.
This isn't likely, but for the sake of defending the theory it kinda holds up
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Aug 11 2013, 12:23pm)
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Faenoriel
Tol Eressea
Aug 11 2013, 2:11pm
Post #11 of 37
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Gandalf and Thorin meeting in Bree has been something I've dreamed about years before filming for AUJ even started.
But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied
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Elessar
Valinor
Aug 11 2013, 2:38pm
Post #12 of 37
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I would love to see that little meet up. It would be one of those little moments that would be fantastic to come to life.
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Nira
Lorien
Aug 11 2013, 7:48pm
Post #13 of 37
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If so, Gandalf will have a lot of flashback time in the next movie. Will he spend more screen time in flashbacks than in the present? He'll even have an AUJ flashback if they added the young Bilbo extended scene.
"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?" -Samwise
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Shagrat
Gondor
Aug 11 2013, 8:02pm
Post #15 of 37
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It does say 'inside' the Prancing Pony. It would be a pretty big mistake to make. It also corresponds with that French (or was it Spanish?) report about them filming on a Bree set.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Aug 11 2013, 8:27pm
Post #16 of 37
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Gandalf/Thorin is one possibility...
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I see three possible explanations:
1. Gandalf's first encounter with Thorin.
2. Thorin and Company passing through Bree to the Lone-lands.
Either of which could end up in the Extended Edition. Or...
3. Gandalf and Bilbo stopping at Bree on the return journey. This seems needless and the least likely possibility.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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vexx801
Rivendell
Aug 11 2013, 8:55pm
Post #17 of 37
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I would likely assume, given what we know to be in the films already, the first option to be the likliest. The only other thing I could think of is if the rumor about Gandalf meeting a younger Aragorn (or perhaps just a ranger) at the Prancing Pony is what will occur, toward the end of film three.
But again, I find Gandalf's first encounter with Thorin from the LotR Appendices (though more fleshed out in the off-limits Quest of Erebor) to be the best candidate. It would indeed explain why Thorin did not comment on his father when Gandalf gave him the key - unless such a comment will be on the Extended Edition.
On the same note, if the company HAD stopped at Bree as I'd hoped in AUJ, I no longer think it is in the film as the EE is only 13 minutes longer. Maybe we'd get a brief shot of them stopping in Bree, but PJ would probably want them to have a short scene there unless he just wanted a cameo as with Weathertop. But why rebuild the Prancing Pony and go back for pickups?
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Aug 11 2013, 9:14pm
Post #18 of 37
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Desolation of Smaug opens after "The Hobbit" logo to Bree. Gandalf and Thorin are discussing the mission in the Prancing Pony.
Thorin naturally brings up Thror and Thrain, which leads to Gandalf explaining that Thrain still lives, because he's seen him.
We flashback to Dol Guldur (or somewhere else). Gandalf narrates as we see him find a crazed Thrain. Thrain has forgotten the name of his son but says there's something Gandalf must give to him. We see the key briefly.
Cut back to Bree Thorin asks "what is it?" Gandalf says "nothing... I will explain more when the time is right. For now meet me at Bag End in Hobbiton. It will be easy to find I'll leave a mark on the door."
Thorin asks "Why Hobbiton?"
Gandalf explains "I think I know the perfect companion for your party. He's an odd fellow, but fierce as a dragon in a pinch! And an exceptional burglar..."
We transition to Bilbo on the Carrock smiling. He makes his way down the Carrock with the company and "The Desolation of Smaug" title appears.
YEEEAAAHHHHH!
Doesn't explain why Gandalf thinks Dol Guldur is abandoned, though.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 11 2013, 9:40pm
Post #19 of 37
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I just want to know what part the cat is playing..... //
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Shagrat
Gondor
Aug 11 2013, 9:56pm
Post #20 of 37
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Will begin at Moria. We know they were recently filming Antony Sher fighting off Orcs outside Moria. I imagine it will relate as much as possible Thrain's plight.
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Tinkerbell
Lorien
Aug 11 2013, 11:10pm
Post #21 of 37
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Does this Gandalf/Thrain meeting occur before or after the battle of
Azanulbizar when Balin notes of Thrain's absence? I assume that
Thorin can overhear Balin's recollection to Bilbo and the younger dwarves
of recent dwarven history. Thorin doesn't appear to know of Thrain's fate.
Why keep any revelation from Balin and company if Thorin was indeed,
through Gandalf, privy to such information?
Assuming there is a meeting in Bree between Gandalf and Thorin with
the discussion broaching the subject of Thrain's discovery, might such
a revelation elicit more questions from Thorin and in turn factor more
explicitly in his own journey toward Erebor? Around the table at Bag End,
there is no mention of Thrain aside from the key. If Thrain were yet
existent, why not try to rescue or reunite with him onward to Erebor?
If he were gone, why not reveal to Thorin and everyone else his fate, instead
of leaving them pointlessly wondering, e.g., Balin's recollection to Bilbo?
I am hopeing somebody might illuminate these narrative. Thus far,
however, one might conclude that Thorin does not yet know of Thrain, anymore
than Balin, for instance. Gandalf may not know either.
Thoughts? Thanks for the replies.
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flameofudun
Lorien
Aug 11 2013, 11:59pm
Post #22 of 37
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And pay attention to details
''We are very dangerous over short distances''
-Gimli
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Yngwulff
Gondor
Aug 12 2013, 3:28am
Post #23 of 37
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Thrain was taken shartly after battle, then,
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If he were turned over to Dol Guldur by the maimed Azog, it would at least make evident the Azog/Sauron connection and perhaps a further reason for his pursuit by Azog beside revenge.
“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”
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Shagrat
Gondor
Aug 12 2013, 9:42am
Post #24 of 37
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"He went missing, taken prisoner or killed; we did not know".
I think the 'did not' is important here. Since it's in the past-tense, it suggests Balin is referring to the fortunes of the Dwarves at that particular time. Note he goes on to say "We were leaderless", not "we are leaderless". Therefore, there's a good chance the Dwarves since learned what became of Thrain in the time after the battle. Presumably Jackson chose not to have Balin reveal what became of Thrain so as to save it for the second film. It would be fairly cruel of Gandalf to keep Thorin in the dark about Thrain, so it makes sense he would tell him before, either at an earlier stage in the journey or before they come to Bag End.
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TheCoon
Lorien
Aug 12 2013, 11:18am
Post #25 of 37
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the thing that caught my eye is
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he is fully aware that public and critic respone are diffrent meaning if dosvis shorter which i still doubt its still his choice
Was that 2 insanely hot girls pratically climaxing over a freakin trailer?
That, my lad, was a fandom!
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